RS_Matt

I didn't think they needed to sort it! I thought it might not even merit a nut or phone call.

Why would I ask them for advice any way when Subaru owners were saying there was 3-4 suspect things? old studs/nuts/gaskets/dangerous silicone/broke stud

All I thought I'd get off a Subaru owner on here to put my mind at ease is 'yes that's how Darren always fits them. Sealant's fine and the nut isn't important.' Darren would have told me that if I'd phoned but I'd still be paranoid from comments on my progress thread!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harvey and Darren only care about selling their product hence all the posts in any topic about Headers/Up-Pipes or Exhaust wrapping. Harvey has made a big play of himself being ill the last few days and not responding to emails, well, Harvey sent me quite a considerate amount of emails when I was asking him about prices and price of fitting!!!!!!!!!!! ..and that was before he was well enough to start adverti... ...posting on here again.

maydew

iTrader: (9)

freedom of speech.... he was only asking for advice is that against the law ?
he only questioned it when others did,and just because i dont own a garage does not mean i am idiot who knows nothing,

as for the silicone it may or may not be up to the job just makes the job look s..t and hinders any further future work when subaru themselves may an exceptional gaskets that makes the job look professional and oem.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Feel free to ask questions, don't fookin name someone when you haven't even been in touch

TX.

maydew

iTrader: (9)

people have different standards mate so dont be expected to put up and shut up just because its a "professional garage and some **** lickers telling you its ok" .
you took it there as you was not in the know yourself like most people do so have no idea whether or not standard of the work "is how it should or expect it to be", there was nothing wrong in you questioning any ones workmanship.

RS_Matt

I was asking if something was ok that 100's of people on here have had fitted. Like I keep saying I thought the answer would be yes that's how DLM fit the up-pipe. Darren leaves the nut off for such and such a reason. I thought different up-pipes might have different techniques/fitments etc etc

It's a frigging missing nut and a bit of sealant not a cut n shut car I've bought off a trader. Not a split header, for that I would have driven straight back to Darlington not phoned.

I thought someone would say the sealant is fine but you'll need to get a new nut, for that I didn't need to phone DLM. I found a new nut in 20 seconds ffs.

Also I wasn't quite sure how to describe what was missing, I called them nut and bolt at first and didn't know it was attached to the engine. A pic on here was far simpler than 20 minutes confusing Darren with a crap description!

Harvey and Darren are out of order for slagging Scoobynet members off.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

+1, that is what I was getting at.

I think this thread needs deleting once you have got your issues resolved.

Maydew If people posted a negative thread up on here regarding my products or workmanship without contacting to resolve the issue prior, then I would not be pleased at all

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and just because people feel that the thread has been created without due thought which can hinder the "professionals", its just not the done thing to slate workmanship or products without doing some homework first. I say again I have NEVER used Harvey, but have listened and gained knowledge from the guy, but then this thread isnt aimed at Harvery is it really although the title heading claims it is, this is aimed at the garage whom are being more than generous with his offer to resolve matters, but then Matt is now probably too ashamed to take it back now after what has been said both directions.

I say that you take Darren up on his offer Matt, and get this issue sorted.

Rob

maydew

iTrader: (9)

totally agree,if it was my car i wouldnt of even drove away with silicone before the turbo thats my personal choice, i am lucky enough to be in the position and have the correct tools and knowledge/garage to do my work to the standard i require ,even porting my own headers/uppipe.

little ocd but just the way i am

scott

RS_Matt

It's sorted already! and according to Darren everything was fine any way, people need to read more carefully!

I declared I had a new nut fitted and that the up-pipe was great and headers would be next but they had to needlessly attack me and the forum users again.

I asked if the fitment was ok (not slated it) and then gave a massive big-up to their product but they aren't happy.

If it's about the scratches claim then I've already pointed out that they are very light and will polish out, again they aren't like key scratches, they are more like when you brush up against a dusty car with jeans on.

It's just love my pride and joy and any imperfection is the end of the world!!!!

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

You should not have named them in the first place fella, reputations are built up over years & can fall over a silly thread such as this. If it's such a trivial matter then that makes naming them even worse ... my advice is to delete all references to them &/or get the mods to delete this thread.

TX.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

+1
Should have contacted Darren first to chat about any concerns you had.
He has fitted loads of these.
(Inculding my car which probably has way more power than yours and is driven much harder with no problems)

RS_Matt

Then people shouldn't mention Subaru and chocolate 2.5 pistons in the same breath.

I wasn't complaining about the work, I wanted to know if I needed a new nut and if the sealant was a bit risky.

Reputations won't be lost on a bit of correctly used sealant and a troublesome nut. If I posted a pic saying "look how poor this fitment is, buyers beware" that would have been wrong.

At the end of the day I don't know Subarus as good as most on here and would have struggled to explain what was what and where to Darren! A pic was a quick way to get an answer, I also emailed them a pic after you guys had fuelled my knowledge thinking it was better detailed than a phonecall but still haven't got an answer.

L.J.F

iTrader: (31)

The best thing to do is delete this thread, you really should have taken your concerns to them and not brought them on here as this thread can be viewed as damaging for someone's reputation and business especially when these forums are the hub of their trade.

antdye2008

I would have taken it back and had the problem sorted rather than post pics up, Darren is a very reasonable guy and would have sorted it straight away.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I thought this had run its course but having reread the thread that has come back up the top again there are a number of things that need to be clarified.
Firstly I am sorry that one of the NEW Subaru 10mm x 1.25 studs sheared. That in itself was not a critical item as the bracket in question is often removed but we did offer to put it right and even offered 30 litres of petrol to bring the car back.
At post #60 Matt made the following statements :
Do not accuse Darren of lying. You seem to have forgotten a lot of what you have actually posted, despite the fact that you have edited many of your posts and other posts have been removed. You also posted :
At that point Darren and I were finished with this thread. I posted once on the front page when the thread had run for four days and it was drawn to my attention. Darren, who your main allegations were against posted a comprehensive explanation with lots of useful information at #43 and made a further post at #47.
Darren did ask that you get in touch and did make a generous offer of 30 litres of fuel but not unsurprisingly we have not heard from you. A new stud would have been fitted and we would have got to the bottom of the scurilous paintwork allegation.
Now since which we were happy to do you have found it necessary to return to the thread and make a further 4# posts including :
Not quite true.
AND
You are either very confused or continuing with scurilous behaviour. Darren's was our last post #47. 13:42 12 June. Just stick with the truth please and look at your time line and get your thinking in datal order.

You do seem very erratic and at odds with a lot of what you say. To help you here is a selection of statements from you that have not been edited.:

Your title : This is true. You e-mailed me when the thread was up to post #16. I knew nothing of your e-mail until Thursday night. The first I knew of the thread was on the Thursday when it was drawn to my attention. Darren did the work and gave you an invoice for everything with both his numbers and if you had any problems he should have been phoned in the first instance. I do not understand your erratic behaviour and fortunately I do not think we have ever come across it before.

Check asap. Pick up the phone!!! So you take the word of some nugget talking rubbish about cracked headers, decide not to drive back 80 miles on their say so and make no contact with the guy that did the job.
Great way to build a mountain out of a molehill and great drama for those that enjoy that sort of thing on Scoobynet.

One of the reasons for offering you 30 litres petrol to return was to get to the bottom of this scurilous allegation as well as replace the stud. We have no reason to believe we scratched your car but had we done so not knowing we would have put right. Photos are not really the way to go as with determining if an uppipe was fitted properly but none were forthcoming and despite Darren asking specifically that you make contact with him there has been nothing from you.
Furthermore, anyone damage my paintwork they would know about it sooner than mentioning it later.

I happen to know that a fixed price of £75 to fit uppipe and or headers is very good and acceptable to many fellow Subaru owners.

Really confused.


Headers crack, turbos fail. Either you have given them wrong info or they do not know what they are talking about. It is obviously best to take advice that know their job inside out.

30 litres of fuel would have substantially covered your travel back the 80 miles to us.

We are not interested in your experience in other garages. You made a damaging allegation that we damaged your paintwork, have not backed it up nor have you conducted yourself in the manner we would expect from someone with damaged paintwork. If we damage something we accept our responsibility to put it right.


I have known Darren for years but cannot remember any occassion when he has told a lie. We both have the same outlook regards customer service and quality of work.
You say you did not claim we fitted the uppipe wrongly. Do you not remember what you have posted and subsequently post. You seem very confused and contrary.

Nothing to do with malicious or not. We either scratched it accidentally or did not but so far do not accept your scurilous allegation which was quite clear. We had scratched your paintwork.

Thankyou. One thing we are agreed on. It was also properly fitted bar the subsequent sheared new stud.

Regardless of what you say your slip jointed uppipe was properly fitted. An inspection will show that and the offer of 30 litres of petrol stands. Photographs, except in very bad cases cannot be relied upon to show if an uppipe is properly fitted. We do confess to using High Temperature Silicon, a purpose designed product we have used successfully over several years. Why change our successful working method, proven over several years when we already have a very good reputation for what we do.
If purists on Scoobynet or Facebook who will never fit as many uppipes and headers as Darren do not want to reuse gaskets where appropriate or make use of a purpose designed product they are at liberty to do as they please but do not try to tell us how to do what we are already doing well and at great value for money for our fellow Subaru enthusiasts.
Simply assess whether someone who has done this for their livelyhood over a number of years, successfully and the manufacturer of a specialist product HT Silicon know what they are about.

Entirely up to you. We cannot expect you to believe us 100% becuse there will be gaps in our knowledge and we know that but headers, uppipes and intercoolers we know inside out.
The reason Darren and I think you are both arrogant and missguided is that you also posted this.

It may not be why you posted it but you have had a good go at doing just that which is why I am clarifying what has happened vigerously.


The crass way you have gone about this has turned a minor issue into a big drama.
Why e-mail me when you have already been on Facebook and this thread is already into post 16.
Why e-mail me in the first place when I was quite ill.
Why e-mail me when the work was done at DLM by Darren who gave you a DLM invoice with both his land line and mobile. would a phonecall to his mobile on reaching home not have been the sensible starting point?

Why make this silly statement at this point in view of the foregoing when you already have all the information, know exactly what has been done. WHY? Everything we did was inline with our normal proven and successful working practice, that the 5 SUBARU STUDS WERE NEW and we had already offered to replace the defective stud, give you 30 litres of fuel, inspect your paintworl and rectify if we were responsible and you could look at the uppipe installation when the car was on the ramp.
Posting as you have done above, at that time, after asking that we "leave it" and we were prepared to do so, only further inflames what could have been put to bed and what you say is disingenuous in view of the information already given to you.

I should not have to defend what Darren and I do like this but your wild and often contradictory posts make this necessary. You seem somewhat confused and unsure of your previous statements. Some people work on the basis "No smoke without fire" and I am afraid that because of what can best be described as your crass method you have had a good go at damaging our reputations and Darren's livelyhood. If you want to come to us for a new stud and examination of the paintwork then phone Darren over the weekend, or me for that matter. You will be treated fairly and profesionally but if that is unacceptable, as in your own words,

maydew

iTrader: (9)

can i ask a general question to the silicone sealant without a big debate.

as you are well known for porting the headers out etc when you apply the silicone
between the joint it squeezes inwards/outwards naturally filling the gaps. to my understanding this could leave to the possibility of refilling the area ported on the header
face therefore defeating the object to a degree,

this is in no way a question into the quality of the silicone just the purpose area in which you use it .

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

I changed the turbo on my car in the week, when i removed the downpipe i noticed that the centre section/downpipe flange was sealed with black silicone.....The exhaust was air tight so IMO cant see and issue with it if thats what it is designed to do.

I think people are blowing this silicone debate out of all proportion.

RS_Matt

Harvey has sent me a reasonable email saying that I can still bring the car back (even though Darren say's no!) and now this????? I politely cleared it up in answer to his email, praised his product now he drags it all back up on here?

WTF?

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Matt I personally think your out of order whether you deliberatly wanted to name and shame or not, but then you already know my feelings.

Dont bother replying now and I will ask Chris to delete this thread, if you keep biting then its never going to end. I cannot imagine now that either Harvey or Darren will respond from this point forward, so all you are doing is s#it stiring.

Peace eveyone, lets turn over a new leaf

Rob

biggazvr6

iTrader: (8)

+1 for rob's idea

RS_Matt

I suppose if I'm biting then I'm in the right.

One thing I want to know is why is Harvey desperately trying to get me back up to Darlington (even offering £30 fuel money) when Darren explicitly stated he didn't want me back in his garage???

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Im guessing here, but maybe its because they both want to do the right thing by you, but you have pi$$ed them both off, so in their own way they are gradually loosing the will to focus their attention on you as they have real work to be getting on with, and other customers to satisfy

RS_Matt

I've stated several times to them that the nut has been fixed, so why do they want me back in their garage so damn desperately? Why get angrier and more volatile each time I politely refuse?

Their attention is getting more focussed to be honest as seen tonight and it's getting a bit unnerving now.

I thought once I made it clear the nut was back on the faulty stud they provided and they'd pointed out to all the 'unsure' (not just me) that the HT sealant was fine to be used before the turbo then they'd be happy to move on. I'm happy, reassured and their rep has no reason to be tainted.

All this tonight is because in an email I sent a few hours ago I politely politely told Harvey to stop making me offers.

Seriously they are creeping me out now.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

With respect to Harvey and yourself...

Take it off forum, the issue has been dealt with offers made and rejected.

Put the matter to bed and walk away.

dunx

P.S. The two of you may never quite agree, but actively flogging a dead horse isn't helping.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

A rather fanciful ideal which I guess you have because you do not understand what we are doing so I hope this explanation helps.
The High Temperature Silicon we use is a specialised product specifically intended for the use to which we put it. If the existing gasket is in good condition it can be reused. If the existing gasket is suspect in any way we discard it in favour of a new one. None of this alters the price to the customer as our £75 fitting charge for uppipe or uppipe and headers is fixed and we take the rough with the smooth. Some jobs take just over 2 hours but on occasion we have to use gas equipment to free seized studs or whatever and these jobs can take four hours. The £75 is the fixed price.
Even when fitting a new gasket, subject to which gasket it is but particularly the collector to uppipe gasket we will still use HT Silicon. The amount used is very small and is applied to the middle of the gasket and using a finger smeared outwards. I must stress the amount used is very small so much so that you can see through the material to the base gasket. As the coupling is torqued up the HT Silicon will obviously spread but it is unlikely to encroach on the internal diameter of the gasket and even if it did it does not represent a problem. I must stress again the amount used is very small. It may appear on the outside of the gasket as the application is biased in that direction. Even a month after application the HT Silicon is in a soft pliable condition and from having fitted and removed uppipes and headers on a regular basis we know there are no issues from Silicon encroaching the gasket diameter.
You can obtain the same HT Silicon and try it out yourself. Pay attention to the instructions, it is a Locite product specifically intended for the purpose to which we use it.
If you saw the amount we use which is very small I th ink you would be surprised and realise why your fears are unfounded.

Something else to help you with. Porting headers is not just a matter of opening the port diameter. To do it properly is quite a complex operation and follows a set procedure which has been learned over many years with investment in flow bench testing time. (Same goes for the design of the uppipes) Just opening the ports could actually result in poor performing headers, particularly in terms of spool and response. One of the things that most people don't appear to appreciate is that the shape of the ports at each joint is critical to promoting accellerated gas flow which is the overall objective.
I hope this helps you.

P1Drifter

iTrader: (7)

Harvey, ever get that feeling your banging your head against a wall

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Sometimes P1 Drifter, but what I don't like is when someone is disingenuous and attempts to change things round from the true position to excuse their actions and I think disingenuous is a very mild description of what has happened here.
At post 43 Darren gave a full account of what we did and why and what is our normal practice. By post 60 we were finished with this thread but Matt Gill had to keep posting.
At post 74 I simply quote all the contrary posts from Matthew Gill. They are there for everyone to see for themselves. That post was at 15:52 Friday afternoon and my last addressing Matthew Gill, but it does not stop that person making the following posts:

21:40 22:39 This guy's logic defies me and it was 30 litres not £30 and our interest was in replacing the stud and getting to the bottom of the paintwork allegation. Matt Gill already had an assurance that he would be treated fairly and professionally so he had nothing to fear.

Here is the corker and where the real dishonesty shows:

23:28 The exact timeline is that on Wednesday 15 June at 14:09 I responded to the email sent by Matt Gill out of politeness.
There was no response to that email and I made my only other post on this thread around 15:52 Friday. At that point I made no further posts but Matt Gill did email Friday 17 June at 21:09.
How can he make this statement:

Not possible or true when my last communication with Matthew Gill was at 15:52 so he is simply twisting things in a dishonest attempt to explain away his own untenable and illogical position.

Here is my email of 15 June 14:09 in which I responded out of politeness to Matthew Gill:

His response Friday 17 June at 21:09.

I am sure it is quite obvious to almost everyone as to who has tried to act professionally with honesty and integrity and to make spurious claims about Darren being rude to further his cause I am afraid that Matthew Gill has made a very big mistake.

jef

iTrader: (13)

lol only one outcome here

and its totally in harvey and darrens favour

there professional to the extreme - treat cars as there own

and very very competitive, hence a successful buisness.

rsmatt i dont know you at all - but sorry mate but to me your coming across completely in the wrong here.

hopefully this thread just highlights the great service, vfm and knowledge of harvey and darren combined

Maz

iTrader: (34)

RS Matt, I wouldn't make any further antagonistic comments. Going by the structured and coherent response by Harvey this thread may well be a prelude to legal action. Be warned.........

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Did you not read Maz's comment, Matt?

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Matt it is clear that this thread keeps dying, but then the surface is scratched again by further responses from just about anybody whom is impartial that views it, and just in case your struggling to grasp some of the views/replies, just about all the responses are not in your favour so please give it a rest trying to retaliate or provoke suggestions that you now feel intimidated or threatened in some way, when clearly this thread originated from your adhoc way of provoking a response regarding the issues you had with Harvey's products or Darren's service.

You clearly did not go down the sane route of getting in contact with the fitter (Darren) although you had several numbers to contact him on, but yet you decided to start a thread called Harvey Smith up-pipe - good fitting? which if anyone was to do a search on info of Harvey's products prior to a purchase could stumble accross this thread, read the first couple of posts and decide that the Harvey products are of inferiror quality of which isnt the case here.

Although you claim to be no Subaru expert I have read quite a few other posts where you appear to come across as having enough knowledge to pull over if
but yet you carried on with the further 80 miles drive home To then esculate a minor issue into something trivial on the Internet, and once the ball started rolling, you thought you would then mention that you thought your car had been damaged whilst the car was at the garage.... So the thread continues with buns being thrown in both directions, and at some point you feel that the only way you can get out of this is to claim you now feel threatened .

Rob