tony de wonderful

What about non-EU immigrants? The ones that comes here permanently?

Also do you think it is a good thing that our taxes are paying for Polish peoples houses in Poland?

tony de wonderful

Is it?

How is it good for indigenous working class people who now earn £5 per hour in the factory instead of £10?

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

no i don't . but tony its all about commercial greed . don;t forget the people who passed these laws allowing this to happen have SHARES in the companies that are employing immigrants for min wage

dpb

You honestly cant decide who your going to hate this week ( or any other for that matter ) can you



What a sad little existence

GlesgaKiss

If you've got immigrants prepared to work for half the wage, that frees up the resources that will employ those out of work. Apart from just the money saved on costs for the business owner, you have the savings to the consumer (the same working class people) and the fact that the immigrant has now also done something productive - he/she has resources (wages) to exchange with others, creating the demand which will employ more people (and that's real demand, not just printed paper). It's a myth that there is a limited amount of 'work', and that if more people come here they will be taking jobs from others. People create work, they create wealth, and there is no set amount of it to ration out.

In a market economy it's a fact of life, unfortunately, that there will be unemployment. Some people won't have anything to do for a variety of reasons, but the majority will find something to do that is of value to others at any particular point in time.

FlightMan

Touch short sighted that isnt it?

Sack all the UK staff on 'high' wages. Replace them with cheap foreign labour who can't afford to buy your products.

Wonderful.

tony de wonderful

Did you just swallow a GCSE economic textbook?

Tell all that to the British factory worked now earning £5 an hour it's a hard sell.

Anyway Globalisation is pushing up fuel prices, food, all the time driving down wages for western workers. Great!

I suppose it is ok if you are insulated from it in the public sector.

Perhaps the Teachers should have their wages halved and masses of immigrant teachers brought it?

Unemployment why? You just said the system was awesome.

tony de wonderful

Globalisation (global labour markets) might work in theory, but most of the world is in abject poverty, it will probably take about 200 years for everyone incomes to match western levels - that's if we don't polluted the planet to death by then - so in the mean time western workers incomes drop right down to the base levels of everyone else as the labour markets balance.

Well that is great if you work in the public sector, have some sort of pseudo-guild-closed shop job like Doctor, Lawyers etc but for everyone else expect Bankers and footballers it equals hard times.

GlesgaKiss

Not really my problem. And if it's in a GCSE textbook (unlikely) then that can only be a good thing. It is fact, after all, not propaganda. Which is what you're spouting with this anti immigration rhetoric.


Did I? Where? I'm just telling you the way it is.

tony de wonderful

But if it is not good for people then why should they support it? You seem to be saying that because it fits some abstract theory of wealth generation then they should run with it?

At least self-interest is honest.

GlesgaKiss

It's interesting, isn't it - The same people who want to insulate themselves from competition also worry about the abject poverty present in countries discriminated against by trade tariffs and farmers' subsidies in the developed world.

While industrialisation has made everyone worse off by leaving them no land to grow vegetables on. Ironically, the whole reason for industrialisation in the first place is the demand from the people supposedly victimised by it.

GlesgaKiss

It's not an abstract theory, it actually works in practice. You're talking about input costs and actual products that end up getting to people. All you would see is the people losing their jobs, but what you don't see are the people elsewhere getting them. The net result is the same, or in fact improved - as I said - by the immigrant. As for whether they support it, probably not, but I really couldn't care less. Are you affected by it? If not, why do you care? It's just a small special interest group after all, the same as homeowners or those in the public sector.

tony de wonderful

I already explained; the global/free labour markets might means Westerners wages getting driven down LONG before they start rising to higher levels than before thanks to the wealth generation you outlined.

The net effects is irrelevant it you get made poorer.

dpb

You really actually believe in twenty years time , less indeed , that the 'british' worker ( whatever that is) will still be worth 5 times somebody from abroad

Your living in cloud cuckoo land

tony de wonderful

Did you reply to the wrong post because your question has no bearing to what I said?

c_maguire

All spongers are a bloody nuisance wherever they come from. I find homegrown spongers slightly less irritating than those from overseas in so far as their p*ss-taking hasn't involved as much premeditation.
And most stereotypes are for the most part truth exagerrated.
An outrageous proportion of the Pakistanis here are useless wasters on the take, whereas the Indian community are for the most part well-educated and productive.
Perhaps someone could point me in the direction of even a single Englishman living in Pakistan and milking the state.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

no not if it keeps the companies in the uk , instead of moving abroad. clarkes shoes springs to mind , the sole made in one country the top made in portugal , stuck together here in uk , labled up made in uk , is just one of the tricks that was being played , bit like the beef , bought in from argentina processed on farm land in uk , proudly displaying the red tractor , with the words processed in uk ,its not short sighted at all because there are other better off people in this country that will still buy the products . lawers and bankers do eat and wear cloths and shoes , oh and then there is our generous benefits system which allows passengers to be able to afford things that most working people can afford (only just) its all about commercial greed and as much profits as possible to keep the shareholders happy . and guess who own a awfull lot of shares MP's bankers lawers solicitors. big buisness people . as buster said IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY oh and the other quote IT'S A LIFE OF LUXURY MY SON

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

WTF, why throw Muslims in

TX.

tony de wonderful

To counter the idea that it is white indigenous people who are lazy and welfare sponges.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Social stereotypes are not always based on fact. Take the Jewish stereotype for example, a money grabbing big nosed skinflint. Is that a a factual stereotype? I think you may agree it isn't. Similarly not all white, indigenous folk are lazy, welfare spongers. The vast majority are had working and have very high moral standards.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

tony de wonderful

It's not a stereotype but an anti-Semitic caricature

The Zohan

Thats money NOT going back into our economy, not helping this country in any away Money to invest in this country and this country and it's peoples future When we have near 0% unemployment then bring in workers from abroad if required, same goes for skilled and unskilled.
The other thing of course is the now grey area of British workers as anyone from the EU is now classed as British as far as government is concerned.

Cut benefits to those that can work but choose not to to the point they have to work!

**** the EU and look after the Brits first and foremost!

bigsinky

ahhh but that would breach their right to family life as laid down by the ECHR

Maz

iTrader: (34)

What's the distinction? A stereotype is not necessarily going to portray the stereotyped in a positive light, it's also not always based on fact. Do you see the irony?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I think the EU is a complete waste of time and money. The sooner we shun this gravy train and become independent the better. Jingoism seems to work for the French maybe we should try it.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

But they are FFS!!!! Why can you not get it through your head that even if all the Muslims here were lazy spongers (which they aren't) it doesn't make it right that there is also a large number of white homegrown lazy spongers too!

That is before we even get on to the fact that they don't face the disadvantages to gaining useful emplymnet that many migrants do.

bigsinky

how has this turned into another muslim v the rest of the world thread again????

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

It's nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the UK's welfare state.

Cut the benefit system down to what it should be and the lazy homegrown scum will have to get a job (even on a wage they think beneath them) to survive and the immigrants you despise so much will have no reason to come here as there will be no welfare state worth talking about and no jobs.

Result

The Zohan

+1!