jods

So - You are saying that the punishment doesn't deter the crime?
You raise a very interesting point.

A: I believe that MOST people are well behaved, law abiding tax payers.
B: SOME People are feckless n'er do wells
c: A TINY minority are dangerous / psycho / mental

Anyone in Group A that overstepped the line of law and got pulled up would probably never do so again

Group B would probably continue a life of petty crime until banged up

Group C would continue to attack REGARDLESS OF the potential punishment - Lock them up in "Asylums"


All in my Humble Opinion

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Yep, in the most recent survey carried out, more than 1 in 3 South African men admitted to having raped at least once, and more than 1 in every 100 to have participated in a gang rape. At current rates (around half a million incidents of rape annually), a woman born there has a higher chance of being raped at least once in her lifetime than of learning how to read.

Pink_Floyd

It would be fair to say these individuals have some sort of personality disorder or mental illness that explains in some part their actions.

They are committing terrible crimes that are unforgivable. I'm pretty sure some states in America chemically castrate such people. In fact Lois Theroux went on one of his voyages of discovery into a prison for these beasts. Some actually wanted to be castrated as they knew what they were doing was wrong, but could not control the compulsions.

It's beyond comprehension what these children must feel

Leslie

Do you really think that one should not tell a child to beware of what might seem to be a nice chap chatting them up and offering them some kind of reward to accompany him to his home etc.?

And do you think also that the child should not know the reason why he should not be dragged into such a situation?

Have you had children? Do you have that much experience of bringing children up?

Les

The Zohan

STRANGER DANGER - At least that's what kids are taught by schools and hopefully their parent reinforce it. What Tony seems unable to grasp is that young children tend to be trusting of ALL adults and believe what they are told, only as they get older 10 or so dependant on the maturity of the child do they stand a better chance of telling the good from the bad and truth from lies and deceit and even then it is a limited understanding. Experiential leaning - learning through experiencing things is great and a good way to learn - most things that is. until then they are best kept away from potential dangers/strangers. Ok some might argue that most sex offences against children are committed by family and friends, good point. However, it is down to the vigilance of parents and indeed other relations to keep kids safe from all sorts of harm.

I do not keep my kids wrapped up in cotton wool, i (we) do minimise their exposure (and indeed their friends to a certain extent) to dangers. for example Our kids play out, we and the other neighbours share keeping an eye on them and they stay in sight and if going to a friends they let us know where they will be and if it is any farther than in our cul de sac i walk them round and fetch them back or the friends parents do so. I make a point of reinforcing 'stranger danger' to them each and every time they go out. Not to scare them but to remind them not to talk to or indeed believe every word strangers say to them and not to go with them under any circumstances - it does not scare them, it does not mollycoddle them it helps makes them safer.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

+1.

Something parents understand better than anyone.

jef

iTrader: (13)

chemical castration

easy, cheap - totally removes sexual urges - as said a lot of offenders would opt for it as they know full well there actions are dispicable

why its not imposed is luducrous - the actual hormones involved are cheap as fck, the administration needed would cost abit, but whole lot cheaper than imprisonment for years/therapy/re-housing/re-naming ect.

plus removes risk to society

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Do paedos just stop if chemically castrated ?

Are they always purely sexually motivated, I would have thought it is mainly a sexual thing but I suspect that some of it is control or sadistic, I would have though thtat castration would help but I don't know if it is the whole picture.

The Zohan

apparently not, a lobotomy is the only way to be sure, personally i do not have a problem with it

tony de wonderful

Would you classify Tesco as a 'dangerous' place for kids?

Playing with chainsaws is dangerous.

Crossing a busy road without looking is dangerous.

The Zohan

Maybe your parents dropped you on your head as a child...i would suspect more than once.


Everywhere is 'dangerous' for kids, most parents minimise the dangers and in most cases thought their own experiences and common sense. Nature and nurture

jef

iTrader: (13)

there are hormones that supress sexual feelings

ie too much estrogen in men has a big impact, indeed as men get older there testosterone levels drop causing reduced libido - its a common thing as many age,

same for women infact - the bodies ability to maintain hormone balance can weaken, hence you see old women with facial hair ect, and old males with t*ts, lol effectivley swapping sexes - then you die.

youll still get sick people that want to harm kids - you cant remove that

but imo its all about reducing risk - the problem being it takes an offence first before its picked up, unless people hand themselves in. so it can really only stop repeat offences

tony de wonderful

So you think Tesco is dangerous for kids? Yes or no?

There is a danger of getting struck by lighting when out walking, so would you classify walking outside as 'dangerous'?

I don't think a reasonable person would classify walking outside as dangerous.

How many kids have been abducted from supermarkets? What are the odds? 10's of Millions to one is the answer.

Ant

tdw the thing is the risk maybe 10's of millions to one.

But if you had kids you still wouldn't take the risk.

tony de wonderful

The thing with some of these middle-class parents is they insist that their kids are under supervision 24 hours a day.

Is that right? I dunno? I know loads of kids on the estate where I grew up were allowed to wander around on bikes, climbing trees etc on our own. Normally had some sort of 'limit' to how far we could go but I don't know anyone who got abducted.

Hysteria1983

It's not simply about class, but I see your point, some areas of society children are up to all sorts day and night, that's not to say they are at not at risk. They are probably more at risk to be honest.

And sadly Tesco or other busy public places are more dangerous than a quiet street, as it's much easier to talk to and befriend a child and walk away with them in a public place without being noticed.
I was in a shop in town last year where my daughter (3 at the time) decided to run away from me, screaming YOU'RE NOT MY MUMMY!!! I had to carry her off screaming and not a single person in that shop bothered to see if she was ok, and if I was her mother!!

I understand it's because you have no experience as a parent that you struggle with this issue.
However, as a parent it is hard to see where protecting them, becomes over protection.
You want children to understand that there are dangers out there, and people can be dangerous, but you don't want to put the fear of god in them.
To be honest, in this day and age, I would rather be safe than sorry.

Children do not have to learn risk assessement by being thrown out of the house alone to climb trees and fend for themselves.
A parent can do this by taking their child out and spending time with them. Teaching them and watching how they assess danger. You can help them when they make mistakes. You cannot do this by just throwing them out of the front door and expecting them to come back.

And I'm not just talking about peadophiles here, I am talking about risks and dangers in general.

Hysteria1983

I imagine that tony would only consider a stranger with a chainsaw dangerous. Never mind the bloke who is trying to get the children to come and have some of his special sweets.

The Zohan

you really are an obtuse weiner and as you seem unable to help yourself; As i said there are dangers everywhere, if it was a lightening storm i would probably stay inside - with the kids, not fly kites or stand under trees as common sense prevails! as for Tesco and indeed all supermarkets i am unlikely to tie them to a post outside whilst i go shopping - like most normal parents i keep an eye on my kids, however i do not keep them on a leash and to heel at all times - suggest you re read my previous post on the subject.

The Zohan

He doesn't either seem to or want to 'get it' and tbh probably best to ignore the troll which is what i shall do from now on

Hysteria1983

I know what you mean!

It's like banging your head against a brick wall!

Leslie

When I was a young lad I was approached on two occasions by different men each of whom were trying to persuade me to go with him if he bought me something that I wanted, such as some foreign stamps when I was looking in a shop window.

Luckily I had been warned about such things even though I did not understand what they might have wanted to do, and I scarpered rapidly.

The possibility was there which is the main point and it is just not right to risk your own child's safety.

As a matter of interest, where did you get the information to calculate those immense odds against such a happening in your earlier post?

Les

The Zohan

moistened finger held in the air

Hysteria1983

I am glad you highlighted that, I think the figures he comes up with have been produced from tdw's ***!

I remember several occasions where myself and a friend of mine were approached by a man. Unknown to us he was a bit 'sandwhich short' but never caused anyone harm.

On these occasions over a summer holiday I was asked if I wanted some of his 'special sweets'. These were in fact, by a quick glance, a plastic packet of coloured golf tee's!

Luckily I was old enough to know that he was a bit weird, and was offering me plastic as sweets, so I ran off home and told my mum.

Years after that he was still seen sculking about with a bucket and sponge asking to clean peoples windows... Perve!

tony de wonderful

To be fair Tesco is always full of screaming kids, kids throw tantrums, what are people supposed to do?

Your right I am not a parent but that does not make my opinion invalid.

I would profoundly disagree with that. Kids need to make their own mistakes up to a point that they are not injured (much) or killed.

tony de wonderful

Well that is just evidence that a kid doesn't need to be on a leash to not be molested....if that was indeed their intentions.

I made up the odds for rhetorical effect, but what do you think the odds of a kid being abducted from Tesco are per visit?

If there are 5 million kids in the UK and they go to Tesco only once a week that is 260 million trips per year. If there is one abduction from Tesco per year (I can't remember one), then the odds are 260 million:1.

You can see how the way that freak occurrences are amplified by the modern media. We confuse what takes place on a national scale with our local 'tangible' world.

If you like this is why Terrorism works so well in the media age.

Hysteria1983

You are not reading properly!

CHILDREN (not baby goats) do need to learn from their own mistakes. I said they do not have to be thrown out of the house abd left alone to do it.
They can do it under the watchful eye of an adult. Someone who can then tell them what went wrong, and what can be done next time to stop it happening again.

And to be quite honest, when discussing how people treat their child your opinion is invalid. Until you have produced a child, made from your own flesh and blood, you cannot even comprehend what it feels like to want to protect that child.

I don't meant to be negative towards you, as I know the way you feel like this is because you don't understand.
You couldn't possibly understand.

Hysteria1983

You seem to be getting confused with actual abduction with an attempt to abduct.

little-ginge

Have sat and read this thread twice. I think that whilst children should be made aware of the dangers of life, they shouldnt be smothered to the point that they are afraid to take a step. My parents taught me from a young age, the rights and wrongs like talking to strangers etc, but they also allowed me to have a childhood with just a smidgeon of innocence. I got through to adulthood without being kidnapped, molested etc. Not everyone is evil, and if you wrap your kids in cotton wool, watching their every movement they wont make the mistakes which would otherwise allow them to grow into balanced, healthy adults. I personally think it is these sheltered individuals who turn into the weirdos & pervs of the world.

Hysterical, I dont have children, and I can assure you I fully understand - as would anyone with an ounce of morality, and common decency.

I think that yours is a very naive and high handed view to have tbh, whether it is TDW or as a general post.

Just because you are lucky enough to have children of your own, does not make you the oracle on parenthood.

Not everyone is able to have 'their own child, made from their own flesh and blood'? and many people choose not to procreate for one reason or another..Would you really have posted what you have if you had thought about how your words have come across? I think it is highly offensive.

Hysteria1983

My attitude towards parenting doesn't have any example of wrapping my children in cotton wool. My son went to private nursery, which sadly is probably considered by many a dangerous place. I worked in one, abd I trusted the staff to care for my child without me watching over them.

As for my post being offensive, I'm sorry you feel that way, but you ask any one of the recently new parents on here, and they will agree that before having children you do not understand.

I do regret the term 'flesh and blood' as both my parents are adopted, so will
use the term 'become a parent' instead (perhaps that fits bitter ginge? )

I know how annoying it is to be told, you don't understand, because you are not a parent, I used to get it all the time when working at a nursery. It used to **** me off! Right up until I had my son, and was faced with that first big descision do I allowHMOm to sleep over at nannys... Is it safe for him to play in the feild behind the house with his 13 year old cousin... Do I let him and his sister stay with grandma while I go to France...?

Those are all petty examples of descision making, but when it's your child, your mind works in a different way.

The Zohan

Your post seems somewhat defensive and i do doubt Hysteria meant anything by it for you to take offence - that is just not her way!

The term parent is not mutually exclusive to biological parents by any means. As they say "any fool can have children, it takes a parent to bring them up" be it biological or not. My dad was indeed my step dad and treated me like a son as i treated him as my dad, i am sure i am not alone in this.

as you say you do not need to be a parent to understand the dangers or how to look after children, i do think a change in attitude happens when you become a parent in nearly all cases a bond forms which i for one could not imagine or believe existed until i became a proud 'dad'

I know i bang on about rights vs. responsibilities but it does seem that these days having children is considered a right by some people when actually it is a responsibility and the biggest and most important responsibility there is be it biological or otherwise.