Oslo bomb blast
23 July 2011, 06:18 PM
#61
Yes, more guns, that would be the way to cut down on nutcases going on shooting sprees, it works in America really well, doesn't it.
Very few people need a Gun.
23 July 2011, 06:53 PM
#62
Where it doesn't work in America is because people go into schools universities etc and start blasting, and these are no gun zones.
Also hand carry etc is normally banned.
How many gun conventions or fairs have been hit by nutcase shooters though?
In Israel a few years ago some Arab went nuts in a digger I think, and he was shot by an armed Israeli citizen I believe.
Anyway it is not a case of NEED, it is might NEED.
Any Libertarian should support the natural right to bear arms.
Also hand carry etc is normally banned.
How many gun conventions or fairs have been hit by nutcase shooters though?
In Israel a few years ago some Arab went nuts in a digger I think, and he was shot by an armed Israeli citizen I believe.
Anyway it is not a case of NEED, it is might NEED.
Any Libertarian should support the natural right to bear arms.
I just have no need or no desire to own a gun, wouldn't have one in the house, having worked on the firearms system at GMP I saw a few people banned from having them for threatening people, I saw someone shoot someone at Stockport shooting club with a licensed firearm then turn the gun on himself.
I can see your point, even the least physical person can be secure in the knowledge they can defend themselves, but really it just becomes an arms race, people are too unpredictable to have guns, mental illness, drugs, anger, alcohol, depression and they have the most efficient way to kill themselves or kill others, I remember my brother in law cleaning a semi auto Uzi on the kitchen table, he has a temper and I dont want him around with a weapon like that in case he went bat****. basically it is like if you want one you shouldnt have one, shame for the responsible gun owners but sod them, take up another hobby.
23 July 2011, 07:28 PM
#64
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Might as well cancel that too then?!
23 July 2011, 07:35 PM
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Even homosexual Muslim Libertarians ?
I just have no need or no desire to own a gun, wouldn't have one in the house, having worked on the firearms system at GMP I saw a few people banned from having them for threatening people, I saw someone shoot someone at Stockport shooting club with a licensed firearm then turn the gun on himself.
I can see your point, even the least physical person can be secure in the knowledge they can defend themselves, but really it just becomes an arms race, people are too unpredictable to have guns, mental illness, drugs, anger, alcohol, depression and they have the most efficient way to kill themselves or kill others, I remember my brother in law cleaning a semi auto Uzi on the kitchen table, he has a temper and I dont want him around with a weapon like that in case he went bat****. basically it is like if you want one you shouldnt have one, shame for the responsible gun owners but sod them, take up another hobby.
I just have no need or no desire to own a gun, wouldn't have one in the house, having worked on the firearms system at GMP I saw a few people banned from having them for threatening people, I saw someone shoot someone at Stockport shooting club with a licensed firearm then turn the gun on himself.
I can see your point, even the least physical person can be secure in the knowledge they can defend themselves, but really it just becomes an arms race, people are too unpredictable to have guns, mental illness, drugs, anger, alcohol, depression and they have the most efficient way to kill themselves or kill others, I remember my brother in law cleaning a semi auto Uzi on the kitchen table, he has a temper and I dont want him around with a weapon like that in case he went bat****. basically it is like if you want one you shouldnt have one, shame for the responsible gun owners but sod them, take up another hobby.
It's pretty rare than someone goes nuts with a gun even in a vast gun owning society like America.
People go nuts with cars also.
Anyway it is my belief that the emotional benefits of a 'gun free society' out weigh the long term disadvantages...which is a slow erosion of individual liberty and freedom by growing state power.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
24 July 2011, 10:44 AM
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The exact same argument - that the people cannot be trusted to own firearms responsibly - could be used to cancel democracy....to say the people cannot be trusted to vote responsibly.
24 July 2011, 11:31 AM
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24 July 2011, 11:35 AM
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But criminals have guns.
It's pretty rare than someone goes nuts with a gun even in a vast gun owning society like America.
People go nuts with cars also.
Anyway it is my belief that the emotional benefits of a 'gun free society' out weigh the long term disadvantages...which is a slow erosion of individual liberty and freedom by growing state power.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
It's pretty rare than someone goes nuts with a gun even in a vast gun owning society like America.
People go nuts with cars also.
Anyway it is my belief that the emotional benefits of a 'gun free society' out weigh the long term disadvantages...which is a slow erosion of individual liberty and freedom by growing state power.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
Much better to have a strict licensing system as we have now.
The book of sayings is doing well for you!
Les
24 July 2011, 11:59 AM
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In a modern social democracy (utilitarian) we are all exposed to the whims of people who 'can't be trusted to wipe their ***** at times', as there are no absolute rights.
24 July 2011, 12:01 PM
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Ironically there are more guns in the hands of criminals now than at any time here in the UK and our laws are the strictest they have ever been;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...every-day.html
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...n-gun-crime.do
24 July 2011, 05:49 PM
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I already outlined that point.
We've had shootings in the UK but firearms are difficult to obtain legally. After every shooting they government reflexively clamp down on the rules but another shooting always eventually follows.
So clearly restricting firearms doesn't solve anything.
24 July 2011, 05:54 PM
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Of course they would never do that with illegal weapons, they are just waiting for a legal gun to be placed in their hands?
24 July 2011, 06:56 PM
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24 July 2011, 09:28 PM
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You may as well have replied with 'the sky is blue'.
It's true but irrelevant.
Food for thought:
Switzerland has an armed citizenry and yet we don't hear about mass shootings all the time.
Should all men be castrated because some may use their *****' to rape with?
24 July 2011, 09:36 PM
#78
I'm not disputing that but your statement bears no relationship to the quote you used from me.
You may as well have replied with 'the sky is blue'.
It's true but irrelevant.
Food for thought:
Switzerland has an armed citizenry and yet we don't hear about mass shootings all the time.
Should all men be castrated because some may use their *****' to rape with?
You may as well have replied with 'the sky is blue'.
It's true but irrelevant.
Food for thought:
Switzerland has an armed citizenry and yet we don't hear about mass shootings all the time.
Should all men be castrated because some may use their *****' to rape with?
Poorly pachyderm or not it's a parallel nonetheless. No more abstract than some you've offered.
24 July 2011, 09:54 PM
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Those eye witness testimonies are both heartbreaking and horrific. Can't imagine what those teenagers had in their minds as they were hunted like game on the small island by that madman.
One witness said he saw a girl walk up to the gunman and plead with him to stop killing everyone. He just shot her point blank.
One witness said he saw a girl walk up to the gunman and plead with him to stop killing everyone. He just shot her point blank.
25 July 2011, 07:57 AM
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Public or closed?
Should Anders Breivik be given a platform for his views or should the trial be behind closed doors and subject to a media blackout?
Last edited by JTaylor; 25 July 2011 at 08:19 AM. Reason: typos
25 July 2011, 08:14 AM
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Prosecute him, as per Norwegian law, I wouldn't give him any special treatment and gagging him, if anything, will just give him even more notoriety. He's committed a terrible crime and should get his day in court - before he spends the rest of his life rotting in a cell.
25 July 2011, 08:42 AM
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how many times does it have to happen before it is a 'problem' for you?
25 July 2011, 09:12 AM
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25 July 2011, 09:14 AM
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http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-27/w...er?_s=PM:WORLD
how many times does it have to happen before it is a 'problem' for you?
how many times does it have to happen before it is a 'problem' for you?
THAT is the evidence.
Even if that were the case and restricting guns stopped all gun crime, what other liberties would you cancel to stop crimes that statistically happen as much as lighting strikes to people?
25 July 2011, 09:20 AM
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But we've had shooting sprees in the UK. It's not something that is necessarily stopped by restricting firearms.
THAT is the evidence.
Even if that were the case and restricting guns stopped all gun crime, what other liberties would you cancel to stop crimes that statistically happen as much as lighting strikes to people?
THAT is the evidence.
Even if that were the case and restricting guns stopped all gun crime, what other liberties would you cancel to stop crimes that statistically happen as much as lighting strikes to people?
25 July 2011, 09:31 AM
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Because his Knights Templar 2083 document states that one of the aims of his act was to bring attention to his anti cultural-Marxism (political correctness) manifesto. Additionally, his rhetoric may inspire like-minded 'crusaders' who'd wish to secure their place in history.
Closed trial and gentlemans' agreement with the media not to publish any of his political monologue that's leaked.
Closed trial and gentlemans' agreement with the media not to publish any of his political monologue that's leaked.
25 July 2011, 09:33 AM
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Because his Knights Templar 2083 document states that one of the aims of his act was to bring attention to his anti cultural-Marxism (political correctness) manifesto. Additionally, his rhetoric may inspire like-minded 'crusaders' who'd wish to secure their place in history.
Closed trial and gentlemans' agreement with the media not to publish any of his political monologue that's leaked.
Closed trial and gentlemans' agreement with the media not to publish any of his political monologue that's leaked.
25 July 2011, 09:39 AM
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Very, very low. You are much more likely to be killed say in a car crash, or doing DIY at home. You are more likely to be beaten to death.
But we have this hysteria about guns.
25 July 2011, 09:43 AM
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Because his Knights Templar 2083 document states that one of the aims of his act was to bring attention to his anti cultural-Marxism (political correctness) manifesto. Additionally, his rhetoric may inspire like-minded 'crusaders' who'd wish to secure their place in history.
Unless you think he has a point and his ideas are thus dangerous?