Shaid

No, but they don't really churn out model citizens for society either. Their difference is their excuse. If they were white English, etc, etc they would be no different.

As for supporting terrorists do you actually realise how much terrorism Pakistan is going through daily? Are you actually aware or does this not bother you the slightest?

TelBoy

Using this quote as it sort of says what others have also.

Ok this is the "obvious" retort, and of course i don't mean it literally to the Nth degree. In effect i don't care what religion people follow as to me it's all complete nonsense anyway. BUT, i feel it's my right to be offended by the Bradford (to name just one, it's not only Bradford) skyline, to be offended by people walking round in clothes clearly of an alien culture, to see groups of people with little or no interaction with the indigenous population, and to top it all off, a High Court lawsuit to try to challenge the requisite that to live here you have to have just the most basic grasp of English. Honestly, i despair. I have no problem with immigration per se, but when it becomes a mini-Bangladesh for example, what really is the point of being in this country.

JTaylor

Sure, but they'd support England in the football or become a squaddie, they may even go so far as to express a distaste for Muslamic ray-guns.

JTaylor

I'm very aware of it Shaid, and it bothers me immensely.

Shaid

If this is your argument and a rather poor attempt at some sort of justification then frankly i won't waste any more of my time. Debating or even trying to make someone of your ilk understand anything other than the DM will either drag on for pages or get me banned.

Shaid

Fair enough

***** are *****, any attempt to understand them leads good people to conflict. It's best to either give them a wide berth or a big foxtrot oscar.

JTaylor

Ok.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

You totally missed the point.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL1jDcAHkc8

JTaylor

AsifScoob

So, it's a personal attack about my debating tactics? Why not attack my argument instead? I am only going by JT's measure. Let's have some consistency here.

As for debating tactics, please provide just one example of reasoned debate from you.

For each one, I wil produce ten comments from you, where you have just upset people, had threads closed, attracted seething criticism, and generally just got on everybodys nerves. (this thread is a good example for starters)

AsifScoob

Please provide some facts to substantiate this James. This is just your opinions. All of them are wrong.

I have personally provided top end, cold weather gear, which was personally handed over to our bomb disposal troops in Afghanistan, yes the ones who keep getting killed. They were very grateful and you will be able to see the kit on TV sometime soon, I am told.

You mentioned your facts and figures, such as 17k acts of jihadism since 9/11, remember? Care to put up some details on that and I will pick it apart for you.

Were they 17k 9/11's or did it include, say, going on a demo, or printing a leaflet? Knowing you, the figure is 100% accurate, but what's in the figure please? Then we will see if you will concede any points or not.

tony de wonderful

You didn't have an argument, just an accusation of 'Islamophobia' - which is actually a personal attack of sorts because you are saying the persons argument is invalid because they have an irrational fear of Islam by implication.

If I attack your tactics it is not a personal attack whichever way you look at it.

It's an attack on tactics.

AsifScoob

Really? You need to explain that to JT then. My post really went over your head didn't it? Or perhaps you are just not reading this thread properly?

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

lol I posted on page 3 that this thread would turn into muslim bashing and the mods deleted it, how right I was!!!

AsifScoob

This thread has gone way off topic, steered away by a few for some inexplicable reason, I wonder why?

We should be discussing why an affluent, young, white, Christian, middle class chap, living in one of the most developed countries in the World, with all of the opportunities that represents, would hate himself and others so much he would do something like this.

Why is no one seemingly discussing this? We might as well be discussing Israel.

This article, from a worthy and respected news source, may shed some light...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...n-society.html

Hmmm...

JTaylor

Do you support the British military presence, our troops, in Afghanistan?

Here are the acts of violent Jihad over the last few days if, of course, you accept that they are indeed violent acts of Jihad. If you don't, I would ask for your definition of violent Jihad, so that we don't waste each other's time.

2011.07.28 (Oruzgan, Afghanistan) - Ten children and two women are among nineteen people slaughtered during a coordinated Taliban attack.

2011.07.28 (Tikrit, Iraq) - Two suicide bombers detonate amid a line of Iraqis waiting for paychecks, killing at least fifteen.

2011.07.27 (Kunduz, Afghanistan) - Three children are blown to bits by a Taliban rocket. Four others are injured.

2011.07.27 (Mandera, Kenya) - al-Shabaab militants kill a local policeman with a remote-controlled bomb.

2011.07.27 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A suicide bomber embraces his target as he detonates, killing one other victim as well.

2011.07.26 (Diyala, Iraq) - Islamic terrorists invade an office building and shoot at least six people indiscriminately before fleeing.

Below is a list, taken from wiki, of the more widely publicised acts of 'terrorism' since 9/11, where Islam has been cited as inspiration.

11 September 2001 – Four planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.

13 December 2001 – Suicide attack on Indian parliament in New Delhi by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. 7 dead, 12 injured.

27 March 2002 – Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 30 dead, 133 injured.

30 March 2002 and 24 November 2002 - Attacks on the Hindu Raghunath temple, India. Total 25 dead.

24 September 2002 – Machine gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.

12 October 2002 – Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.

16 May 2003 – Casablanca Attacks – Four simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafia Jihadia.

11 March 2004 – Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured (alleged link to Al-Qaeda).

1 September 2004 - Beslan school hostage crisis, approximately 344 civilians including 186 children killed.

2 November 2004 – The murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.

5 July 2005 - Attack at the Hindu Ram temple at Ayodhya, India; one of the most holy sites of Hinduism. 6 dead.

7 July 2005 – Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.

23 July 2005 – Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.

29 October 2005 – 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings, India. Over 60 killed and
over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.

9 November 2005 – 2005 Amman bombings. a series of coordinated suicide
attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Over 60 killed and 115 injured. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.

7 March 2006 – 2006 Varanasi bombings, India. A series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. 28 killed and over 100 injured.

11 July 2006 – 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings, Mumbai, India; a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11*minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai. 209 killed and over 700 injured.

14 August 2007 – Qahtaniya bombings: Four suicide vehicle bombers massacred nearly 800 members of northern Iraq's Yazidi sect in the deadliest Iraq war's attack to date.

26 July 2008 – 2008 Ahmedabad bombings, India. Islamic terrorists detonate at least 21 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 56 dead and 200 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence. Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of terrorists suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, the Students Islamic Movement of India.

13 September2008 – Bombing series in Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 3 people dead.

26 November 2008 – Muslim extremists kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in a series of coordinated attacks on India's largest city and financial capital, Mumbai. The government of India blamed Pakistan based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and stated that the terrorists killed/caught were citizens of Pakistan, a claim which the Pakistani government first refused but then accepted when given proof. Ajmal Kasab, one of the terrorists, was caught alive.

25 October 2009. Baghdad, Iraq. During a terrorist attack, two bomber vehicles detonated in the Green Zone, killing at least 155 people and injuring 520.

28 October 2009 – Peshawar, Pakistan. A car bomb is detonated in a woman exclusive shopping district, and over 110 killed and over 200 injured.

3 December 2009 – Mogadishu, Somalia. A male suicide bomber disguised as a woman detonates in a hotel meeting hall. The hotel was hosting a graduation ceremony for local medical students when the blast went off, killing four government ministers as well as other civilians.

1 January 2010 – Lakki Marwat, Pakistan. A suicide car bomber drove his explosive-laden vehicle into a volleyball pitch as people gathered to watch a match killing more than 100 people.

1 May 2010 - New York, New York, USA. Faisal Shahzad, an Islamic Pakistani American who received U.S. citizenship in December 2009, attempted to detonate a car bomb in Times Square working with the Pakistani Taliban or Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.

13 May 2011 - Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan claimed attacks on two mosques simultaneously belonging to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others.

13 July 2011 - Three bombs exploded at different locations in Mumbai, perpetrated by Indian Mujahideen.

Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Here's the list of 'terrorist' attacks where the defence of "Christian Europe" has been cited as an inspiration during the same period:

22 July 2011: Anders Breivik - Oslo - 76 murdered.

Massive, widespread condemnation and incredulity for his actions from
from virtually the whole of "Christian Europe", whatever that is.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Should you count Irish terrorists?

Shaid

Gosh this JTaylor guy! Seriously dude why don't you take your bigotry somewhere else rather than using a motoring forum as your platform to air your prejudices?

Pistonheads had the same problem with idiots allowed to use the forum to air their prejudices however i dismissed them as being middle class mummy boys who have never had exposure to the real world. I never expected Scoobynet to allow said types of bigots too.

I don't wish the troops in Afghanistan any harm as they genuinly believe they are doing the right thing however i do not support them being there at all. Granted the taliban are ***** but its not our job to follow the americans on playing world police. By doing so our credibility on the world stage is almost shrinking as fast as their economy. Even the braindead can see that the war is a farce, the kids (yes kids!) that are being sent there are brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing. They are being conned, what happens to them after they have served their time and come home? Many do not even have a roof over their heads. How much help is really available for their mental and emotional state? Fark all! It's a disgrace that it takes a charity to look out for their interests and not the government who sent them to the bloody place in the first place! But that doesn't bother you though does it? The way you see it as long as the gun is pointed at a Muslim (any Muslim) they are doing the right thing. What happens to them when they come home is their problem right?

These 'ooh Muslims are bad' arguments you try and bring up are simply highlighting your stupidity and i'm sure you are not stupid but seriously give up the west vs Muslims thing, by letting said extremists types wind you up like this means they have already won.

JTaylor

If Irish terrorists are "defending Christian Europe" one can, sure.

tony de wonderful

British foreign policy to Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan??

RA Dunk

yet another thread gone to rat **** by the usual suspects.

JTaylor

I agree and that was the topic of conversation before we became sidetracked. I liked this sentiment from Trevor Phillips:

"Muslim communities in this country are doing their damnedest to try to come to terms with their neighbours to try to integrate and they're doing their best to try to develop an idea of Islam that is compatible with living in a modern liberal democracy.

"Integration is also about compromise and I think the reason you don't hear a lot about that from Muslims is that they're trying to find ways of being good Muslims in a way that is consistent with the society they're living in."

I, for one, absolutely welcome an Islam that is compatible with Liberal Democracy and think and feel that if that is possible, we can see a future where apartheid in this country isn't part of the picture. Are you confident, Asif, that Islamic and Western ideology can co-exist? I guess it has to, the alternative has very limited appeal. How do you see this panning out - are you optimistic?

hodgy0_2

they must lead such interesting and fulfilled lives

as they post on wideranging and diverse topics such as Islamiphobia and Islamiphobia

Leslie

I imagine that the "natives" used to feel a bit aggrieved when Western nations took over their countries and established a western style administration.

"Tit for tat" they would say and don't forget the crusades!

Les

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Sorry, were you being sarcastic here, or did you mean that seriously?

tony de wonderful

On what grounds would you say that pre-colonial countries 'belonged' to the population anyway, in a popular sense?

In many cases the British just replaced or made subservient an existing local elite. In some cases these local elities were not even indigenous (Moguls in India for example).

So it was just a swap of one elite for another.

DCI Gene Hunt

Someone lock this ******* joke of a thread, please....

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

+1

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Roughly translated, "it is offensive to my deepest sensitivities, so no other shall have enjoyment of it".