pigSTi

iTrader: (5)

Not at all, if there were a means of identifying these things then we would have heard already.

All that people with a "rudimentary understanding of genetics and social anthropology" can possibly do is have an educated guess and guessing is no kind of an answer to my statement "who knows".

Guess away

Leslie

Do you find in general that the sheep are grateful Chip?

Les

Sorry, couldn't resist it!

GlesgaKiss

It's my view that something has gone 'wrong' somewhere in the upbringing - compared to the majority of other upbringings - which has made the person gay.

pigSTi

iTrader: (5)

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iTrader: (6)

BUMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pigSTi

iTrader: (5)

urban

iTrader: (1)

I agree.

You'd should have had poofterism beaten out of you

Chip

Usually Les, next time i'm down Devon way I'll bring a few of the girls down with me so you can give it a try.

Chip

TelBoy

Hilarious. Is this 2011 or 1811?


Actually i say hilarious, astonishing would be a better word. Truly astonishing. Dear oh dear.

GlesgaKiss

Hit a nerve?

TelBoy

No


That was a stupid thing to say. Twelve year olds say hit a nerve did i?

You're a bright bloke from what i've seen of your posts, yet you have a prehistoric understanding of sexuality. Worse, many many people still think it's correct. It's not the first or the tenth time it's been discussed on Scoobynet and it won't be the eleventh or the last, and from expeience it's utterly pointless asking if you know (truly *know*) any gay people because from the safety of a pc the stock answer is always "yes" which gets us nowhere. But take it from me, homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice. I know that's almost impossible for you to comprehend, but it isn't. On this one, you're wrong.

JTaylor

I'm not widely read on this so go easy on me, but, whilst I'd agree with your statement in isolation, would you agree that there is a 'gay' lifestyle that is a choice; where one's sexuality is the kingpin of one's existence? If that is so, is there good reason for culturally conservative thinkers to object?

GlesgaKiss

I think you've misinterpreted my post. For your information I have a very good friend who is gay, or bi I suppose. I didn't say it was a lifestyle choice, did I? There isn't conclusive proof that it's genetic, even though it's trotted out by activists and the like. From what I've seen, and in my own opinion, it's environmental, i.e. the upbringing and experiences.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't tell my friend that I thought something had gone 'wrong' out of politeness. But this is a forum discussing it, and it is what I think, even though I obviously have no problem with people being gay. It's merely my opinion that psychological factors, based on environment/experience have much more (possibly complete) influence over whether someone is gay or not than genetic ones.

Dedrater

I'm not gay, but I love sucking c**k.

Leslie

Just the girls?

Les

TelBoy

To be honest JT i don't know of any gay people who have chosen "gayness" in order to attain the lifestyle it offers. I cannot of course say with any certainty that it hasn't or doesn't happen, and i'm not just talking teenage "experimentation". But in the long run, homosexuality cannot be learned, it's physiologically impossible, so yes there might be a number of people living a lie i can't deny it, but for most people, beyond the whims of youth, innate sexuality will return. And for some people, that's homosexuality, end of.

Does that help at all?

TelBoy

GK, simply *ask* your friend. If he's a good friend, he won't mind talking about it. Environment and upbringing, whilst influential, cannot by themselves determine somebody's sexuality. You're right, there is no conclusive proof that sexuality is genetic. Yet. I hope they spend money proving much more worthwhile causes than this, but if they ever do prove it, a lot of people will need to re-evaluate their misconceptions.

GlesgaKiss

Ask him what though? Whether his sexuality is the result of genetics or environment and upbringing? How could he answer that, other than with the hunch that most of us, including you, seem to be using in this thread.

Psychological factors can't be underestimated; they have such an influence in all areas of people's behaviour, including other elements of sexuality. That's what makes it seem likely in my mind that sexuality could almost be 'decided' by them.

But you're right: obviously if genetic proof is discovered I will have egg on my face; but I'm no expert anyway so, to be frank, I probably won't care.

TelBoy

He *will* know, that's my whole point. Try talking to him about it, if you care of course.

Will

100% yes

JTaylor

Kind of. I'd agree, and my limited reading and experience tells me that, in the majority of cases, being homosexual isn't a choice, but I don't think the whole "look at me I'm a raving woofter" thing is innate - the mince, the overuse of the word bitch, Kylie concerts and so forth are choices, aren't they? I don't object to those choices, for the record, I'd much rather socialise with a queen than an stuffy Stepford citizen and I also understand that there are vast swathes of homosexuals whose sexuality isn't their raison d'être. However, I do think and feel that homosexual people, whilst probably not choosing their sexuality, do make choices about their lifestyle and I'd defend the right of a cultural conservative to object to that without the threat of being publicly flogged.

CREWJ

I have absolutely no issue with it at all. I have some gay friends and they're normal just like anyone else. Saying that, I don't know any brash loud types so can't comment on that.

I just can't believe some people are still living in the "gay bashing" era. Do you hate people because of the colour of their skin? It's the same premise.

JTaylor

No it isn't.

CREWJ

Hating someone because of who they are. That's the same.

GlesgaKiss

At the risk of upsetting yet more people , queens do my f*cking head in. Just plain attention seeking IMO. It's also using their privileged position in modern pc obsessed Britain as a ticket to act like complete arseholes without reprimand.

I was at Alton Towers years ago when there was some kind of gay day out (must have been gay rights groups or something) and there were guys full on snogging each other (tongues tickling tonsils) in the middle of the queue for the oblivion. Is that really necessary? I mean, you get kids in their teens doing that, it's ok, quite natural, but fully grown adults?

Is that culturally conservative? And if so, where do you draw the line?

TelBoy

Correct, and the crux of the issue. And it's that flaunting which leads people to believe that they've made some sort of choice. They haven't, but the way in which they need to "tell the world" of their sexuality is very unfortunate, but to them, part of their self-acceptance routine. Can't stand that sort of behaviour, personally.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

To be honest, even if there were absolutely no evidence that homosexuality was biologically predetermined and a great deal of evidence to suggest it was simply a lifestyle choice, would that really be such a bad thing?

I can think of a lot worse lifestlye choices quite frankly!

Also, regarding the environmental influences: one can be every bit as much as a slave to them as biological influences. Who says you chose the key environmental moments that define your sexuality? Look at some hetrosexual fetishes: Some people have a thing for ankles, some people even like pooing on other people!!

Look at how **** sex with a woman is often lauded by hetrosexual men. Sorry guys, it might be on a woman, but a bottom is still a bottom!

There is still so much fear and ignorance about this topic and most of it is based on utter bollox!

Will

Also called bumming

Chip

Well yes Les, otherwise people on this thread might get the wrong idea and assume you are gay

Chip

Chip

I think thats the last thing he'd want to do