ozzy

Wrexy,

Got your mail. Working on it as we speak. I'll get them up as quick as.

Stefan

ozzy

OK, here's the first batch of pics from Wrexy's first deltalog. They're taken from the DeltaLog-ae802-Thu Apr 25 2002 11-29.01 log file.







There were some more graphs, but just things like air-con button position, power-steering switch, etc..

Stefan

[Edited by ozzy - 4/25/2002 3:43:54 PM]

WREXY

Cheers Stefan

My car is a MY00 with the AE802 ECU. Mods include APS induction, 5Zigen exhaust (mid and backbox only. stock DP), Blitz DSBC boost controller, Blitz BOV and a fuel cut defender.
The first log was done with 1.2 bar boost and the second with 1.0 bar. With the first log, the Manifold relative pressure will only show up to 14.2 psi even though it is around 17psi due to the FCD cutting in at 14.2 psi. The second log will show correct boost.

I have a feeling my MAF could be on it's way out cos the O2 sensor is showing around 0.86 Volts. This is leaner than other cars. I thought the leaner readouts could be due to the APS kit but, I dont think it is.

I'll have to find someone close to me with a MAF sensor, so I can plug it in, to see if there is a difference.

We'll wait for the logs to be posted here. Then, I have a few questions.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

ozzy

OK, here are the 2nd batch of graphs. These were lifted from DeltaLog-ae802-Thu Apr 25 2002 11-36.18 log file.







Stefan

WREXY

Oh!!! they're already here!

Thanks very much Stefan!

The aircon and other stuff aren't needed.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

ozzy

Wrexy, it's a pleasure.

Didn't think you'd want the rest of the rubbish

Cheers,
Stefan

WREXY

Once again thanks mate! I really appreciate it.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

[Edited by WREXY - 4/25/2002 3:58:01 PM]

[Edited by WREXY - 4/25/2002 4:09:01 PM]

WREXY

OK. Now for the people that know what it all means would you be able to tell me if primary wastegate duty cycle, Fuel injection pulse width, throttle sensor voltage, airflow sensor voltage, front O2 rich signal, ignition timing and air fuel correction, are OK. I don't know what the figures are meant to be.

Cheers,

Wrexy

b5m

"OK. Now for the people that know what it all means would you be able to tell me if primary wastegate duty cycle, Fuel injection pulse width, throttle sensor voltage, airflow sensor voltage, front O2 rich signal, ignition timing and air fuel correction, are OK. I don't know what the figures are meant to be."

I am not really an expert but I have a vague idea. I cant see the exact figures.

On your first high boost run you have a max of 16ms injector time at 6500rpm
% = 16*6500 / 1200 = 86.7%
on low boost run you have about 15ms at 6800
85%
so all ok there < 90%.

Your front O2 seems to dip a bit below 0.9V which is lower than most. If it is below 0.87V then this is 7% CO which is a bit lean I think. This is for open loop. During closed loop when your MAF is being used I cant really see since most of your runs are in open loop.

There is a bit of knock correction. What was the temperature and what RON fuel were you using?

[Edited by b5m - 4/25/2002 4:48:13 PM]

john banks

The striking feature is you are not putting in anywhere near as much fuel as me for similar airflow - you injector pulse widths and lambda are well down. New MAF asap just buy one no point in delaying it?

WREXY

Cheers B5m,

The temperature was about 15 deg celsius and the petrol I was using is supposed to be SUL 98 RON. There are rumours from a Greek bbs that the fuel here may not be 98 and that it may only be 95 RON and that NUL may only be 92 RON. I don't know what to believe. It is advetised as 98. Some say that it is 98 but the servos (petrol stations) are mixing petrol with diesel or other substances.

On the other hand we tested Jim Theo's, (from this bbs), MY00 with PPP and he was getting 0.93/0.94Volts so maybe the fuel is 98.

Are you saying that in open loop the MAF plays no role? If yes, that would mean my MAF is not the cause of the leaner running.

What could it be? APS induction kit?



Cheers John,

If it is the MAF I'll get one. But I need to know the answer to the above question.

Regards,

Wrexy.

john banks

The MAF is the centre of open loop control!

Octane I do not believe has as significant effect on the value the oxygen sensor sees as it does on ignition advance before knocking.

WREXY

Cheers John,

MAF it is then. Ordering one tomorrow.

This is why I believe Delta Dash is a good thing to have. It's cheap and can get you out of trouble, before a repair can become expensive.

If I did not have the Delta Dash I would have had no way of knowing that my MAF was on it's way out and that would have led to, maybe a blown engine. There are no symptoms. It idles normally and it drives smooth. So the Delta Dash helped me find the bad MAF right at the very very early stages of it becoming faulty. All I had planned was to go do some logs and it picked up a problem. Lucky I had the Delta Dash

I recommend it.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

WREXY

No wonder I had good fuel economy. It's cos I was running this lean and the car was feeling really strong too. I'll probably loose a bit once I change the MAF and I start to run richer again. Better, to save the engine.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

Cosie Convert

Wrexy STOP Don't buy a new MAF just yet.

I noticed your throttle position sensor signal is not holding maximum. The graph clearly shows the TPS voltage dropping back to around 3.5 volts EVEN ALTHOUGH it looks like you are still applying full throttle as the car is still accelerating hard and boost pressure is at maximum.

This WILL cause your car to run weaker. The last 10-20% throttle travel only adds more fuel and up's the CO by a few %

It is likely that you only need to adjust your throttle cable to ensure you get max voltage from the TPS (approx 4.2 volts looking at JB's trace) Or possibly the TPS is failing but unlikely.

Your airflow is reading as high as 4.2 volts which is what I'd expect for your level of boost/mods. Your airflow graph will differ from JB's as you have an EBC which gives a different boost and therefore airflow profile to a MBC or factory controller.

Try this first, may save you a chunk of cash

Andy

[Edited by Cosie Convert - 4/26/2002 12:16:03 AM]

StephenDone

Well spotted Andy !

George,

Check that your floor mat doesn't go under the accelerator pedal. OEM mats have a cut-out to prevent this, but many general purpose mats don't. This can stop full travel too - I did it on the dyno last weekend when my mat slid up - doh !

Steve

StephenDone

By the way, a quick tip for posting these graphs...

The files are much smaller and clearer when saved as GIF files as opposed to JPG, since the images are computer generated and have large areas of identical colour. John's image was approx 80k, whilst Wrexy's are about 200.

Cheers

Steve

b5m

"Are you saying that in open loop the MAF plays no role? If yes, that would mean my MAF is not the cause of the leaner running.

What could it be? APS induction kit?"

Sorry John is correct, I was confused with the O2 sensor and the MAF sensor. As I said I am not an expert but noone else had posted any replies. The O2 sensor doesnt get used in open loop mode AFAIK. The MAF has to get used since the ECU adjusts the fuel according to the flow of air through the MAF.

Definately get the throttle sensor or floor mat issue sorted. The ECU isnt seeing full throttle as Andy pointed out and you can see it clearly on the graphs.

[Edited by b5m - 4/26/2002 6:45:19 AM]

WREXY

Andy,

Thanks for spotting that m8. You're a life saver.


Steve and B5M,

Thanks alot fellas. I'll check it out. B5M, No worries about the mix up. Still, the info you provided about how to work out the injector cycle %, etc, was very useful.

This is why this bbs is so great. Lucky I posted the logs and got this response. I appreciate it fellas!

Cheers,

Wrexy.

PS I'll let you know how I go.

[Edited by WREXY - 4/26/2002 8:53:12 AM]

john banks

Good point Andy. I only looked at the airflow and the lambda. It still seems lean to me for that amount of airflow, but your and my idea of lean are different . I did get similar with a Dawes at part throttle on a small turbo with only the standard 0.5mm bleed hole, so an aggressively setup EBC could also do it, but I am not quite sure I would like it being this lean on part throttle - he is after all getting knock corrections.

Cosie Convert

Fear of weakness is your weakness

The fuel composition can change the exhaust gas CO. As Wrexy said, they do a bit of blending out there

If, as is popular in the USA, the fuel is oxygenated then for the same air fuel ratio, the lamda will read a lower voltage.

It is common practice in many countries to add up to 8% alcohol to gasoline fuels. A typical alcohol CH3OH brings with it it's own Oxygen atom. Even at this dilution level it can have an effect on mixture under open loop running. Closed loop this is automatically corrected by the ECU.


Andy

[Edited by Cosie Convert - 4/26/2002 10:24:10 AM]

john banks

Well spoken guru, you must teach me to be weak so I can be strong Sounds a bit biblical to me, don't get me into that stuff again

However when I suggested 20 PSI (on a new turbo) and 7-8% CO with as much advance as possible for a mapping session I was invited to bring a suitcase to the session so I could take the bits of engine home in a bag. So I am braver than some

[Edited by john banks - 4/26/2002 11:07:40 AM]

ozzy

Stephen,

I've saved Wrexy's images as GIF (using PaintSho Pro), but they're still around 200K each.

I even did another screen dump, copied to Paint and saved as a GIF, but it was over 500K.

John,

How did you create your image exactly?

If I can get them down in size, I'll change the post to give those without broadband less of a frustrating time.

Stefan

john banks

I did shift Print Screen and then pasted into paint and saved as a .gif that was it.

WREXY

Hi all again.

I removed the carpet and checked that the pedal is using the full cable at WOT. My wife had the pedal all the way to the floor and I checked the linkage at the front. It's not losing anything. I went for another log and I'll post the new graphs in a few minutes. Still lean I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

WREXY

I saved them as a gif file. The boost controller was at 1.2 bar again.











[Edited by WREXY - 4/26/2002 12:15:13 PM]

WREXY

The fuel injector pulse and throttle voltage is lower than John's, still.

Any ideas? Is it the MAF then?

Cheers,

Wrexy.

b5m

WREXY, what is the minimum voltage on the O2 sensor at high revs and full throttle from the last run?
I see your throttle sensor voltage is constant now so it seems you fixed something.

WREXY

0.875V to 0.88V it's pretty steady.

mutant_matt

Just to back Wrexy up,

I've just looked at several MY99-00 DD traces and the max throttle voltage is:

4.24, 4.14, 4.22, 4.24 and 4.2.

Matt