JTaylor

I appreciate you've put in an "IMO" caveat, but do you really believe that, Myles?

The Zohan

What i got from Starkeys' interview (my take if you like) was the black gang culture brought over from the likes of Jamaica, the culture of Jamaican men fathering many kids who they take little or no responsibility for, and the kids growing up without a (decent) male role model in many cases. This culture then being adopted by whites who see this as how they want to live.

Now this has become British gang culture - irrespective of race!

I am not saying Jamaicans who came here are all bad but we have the bad with the good and some of the bad has stuck and become entrenched into our society. This is then encouraged by a benefit culture and also widespread drug use and the subsequent trade in drugs expanding to epidemic levels.

More failed multiculturalism.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Hey up Paul

I think it's only a matter of time before the majority says enough is enough and organised vigilantism comes in to force. Zero tolerance is the only way. Listening to some of those on the tape and the reasons they give for doing what they do highlights their need for a good beating.

DCI Gene Hunt

Proper vigilantism though... not like the retarded EDL and Co.

tony de wonderful

Japan has gangs called the Yakuza, but they don't go around looting or speaking in a Jamaican Patois affectation.

It has everything to do with culture the way these gangs behave.

astraboy

No, hip hop culture has everything to do with the way these gangs behave, glorifying violence, attitude and 'get rich or die trying' Outlook on life is pretty much the entire mindset of each and everyone of those out looting last week.
Hip hop is a disease and does the square root of bugger all in reinforcing positive values. If I had my way it would be banned.
Astraboy.

JTaylor

Aww, bless. That'll keep everyone happy, Paul. Going forward we'll call black gang culture "British gang culture". Excellent.

dpb

Im afraid truth is he's pretty stiff upper lip snob , who has an agenda - mainly to stay controversial so he can flog more tv programmes
im sure some 'english' black people originating in previous generations from the caribbean would like to imitate their american cousins - who are very definitely discriminated against still and find some kind of refuge mentally in belonging somehow - maybe by joining a 'gang'


Im sure a similar mentality may exist here in hard times


'black gang culture' is just a provactive phrase dreamt up by those wanting to stir the **** . Theres plenty 'white gang culture' going around - its not such a headline grabber tho cos we could rarley understand their language or theyre mockney ne'do-do-wells the middle upper class starkeys pervertedly admire for their cheek

JTaylor

**** that. No more NWA, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul or Public Enemy?! I still remember your 'rave reviews', well, you wouldn't have attended a rave had hip-hop not preceeded it! What needs to be strongly challenged (not banned) is the deeply subversive use of moral-blackmail to silence the clear-thinking in their rebuke of corrupt cultures and philosophies. I abhore censorship.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

OK, I'll go out on a limb here and maybe crank this up a notch just for giggles. If we accepted for the sake of argument that Starkey really does have an agenda, have you considered the possibility that he finds Jamaican-influenced gangsta culture particularly abhorrent, because of its extreme homophobia? I personally don't think that's the main reason for his views, but it would certainly be understandable if it was one part of them.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I think 'they' may have a chip on their shoulder because 'you' lot made their forefathers pick cotton!

Jesting aside hip hop and rap artists are materialistic, greedy and selfish.

legb4rsk

This is a serious question.What is 'Black Culture'? Please enlighten me.I mean how it pertains to this country.Not the imported U.S. or African type but a specific UK based 'Black Culture'
Most black people in this country are 3rd or 4th generation & are more English than me.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

The UK rave scene did not grow from hip-hop so not sure where you are getting that one from.

JTaylor

You're quite right, there is no "black culture" but there is a gang culture which inherits character from people of African-Caribbean decent, and it's crap. And white-British people are adopting it. Anyone can see that. And if white-British people, who make up 83% of the population are adopting it, and you accept that it's crap, then it stands to reason that its spread should be challenged.

JTaylor

Ok, well let's assume that disco and electronica didn't influence hip-hop and that hip-hop didn't influence rave, can I assume that, via abscence of a challenge, you agree with every other point I've made.

The Zohan

never saw you as the patronising tw@t type but then ya go!

White British kids adopting this lifestyle, black British kids adopting this lifestyle and attitude, it is hardly now just black gang culture now is it, it has evolved! Doesn't make it any less serious a problem but is a more realistic label for it if a label is needed and also what Starkey was getting at - or as i said "my take on it".

By now you should know me well enough that i do not care who's feathers i ruffle or who i **** off or whether people like my opinions or not. i do not feel i need to fit in or cow-tow to others, i am however open minded enough to listen to others and take on board, even change my view if i feel it the right thing to do based on what i now or even now know and admit it when i am wrong - not that i ever am of course.

Keep you smart comments to yourself in future - Now play nice!

dpb

i honestly think you should take a step back and consider how pompous that sounds

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Now that you have finally divorced gang culture from black culture I think we can say progress has been made, yes!

The Zohan

How can you completely divorce gang culture as it has it roots on black culture? it's a ******* BIG elephant in that particular room!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I mean one isn't the same as the other. They aren't interchangeable. Just read the thread you dolt

JTaylor

I haven't conflated the two at any point during this or any other discussion, f1.

JTaylor

Anyway, this thread is about to go ****-up so I'll hold fire untill I'm confident it's not going to turn in to a full-on spaz fest.

cster

That's what you are - what am I?

David Lock

Well there seem to be a lot of keyboard experts on this thread but I guess we are entitled to our views without any real experience playing a part

I confess that I don't think I have ever met a member of one of London's gangs - black or white - let alone had a chat to see what's involved.

But as an outsider, as it were, it strikes me that there is a strong US influence (films, music, games, TV etc) which itself has a strong West Indies culture. Largely black which the whites have latched onto as mankind needs a tribal togetherness. For some kids with s,hitty parents that's a gang, for the working class it's the pub and/or the family and for the middle class it's the golf club or work and the family.

I haven't a clue what to do about all this but my gut feeling is that's it's all too late.

dl

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

You leaving it alone would help then

Shaid

People, he never said it is a problem with the black race. In fact he made quite a distinction that said black lady in the interview and some guy he referred to are not like the people he is highlighting.

He is highlighting the ****tier parts of the black community, unfortunately for some yoof said ****tier part of the community is something to look up to like its something to achieve in life. Academic education is frowned upon and everyone in the world is against the,! They only respect those who they fear usually those who are more ruthless and violent than them.

I've seen British Pakistani teenagers talking like they are from the Caribbean, even walking with a limp, i have witnessed white teenagers doing the same. Now this is in no way shape or form a dig at the Caribbeans however the seedier side of the Uk Carribbean type gang culture cannot go unnoticed.

It's about time some one stood up and pointed out how crap it is.

AND whilst they are there please ban ****ing text speak!

ScoobyWon't

The skank shuffle. Commonly adopted by shop-lifters and those who inject drugs, in my experience.

Leslie

What a fuss!

Les

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Looks like a sensible debate on the issue is doomed, as was expected...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14531077

The Zohan

Millibland and labour are part of the problem and not the solution!