UK house prices 'will hit all-time high by 2015'
#91
I'm fine with that, but what I object to is paying directly and indirectly to guarantee that their 'risks' pay off.
#92
Scooby Regular
The problem is, and it is a big problem for you, is that you live in rented accommodation
But everyone who has children has the same problem tbh, how are they going to afford to buy a house and attain the same lifestyle as their parents
#93
This is off course 100% true, (like most of what you have posted on this topic)
The problem is, and it is a big problem for you, is that you live in rented accommodation
But everyone who has children has the same problem tbh, how are they going to afford to buy a house and attain the same lifestyle as their parents
The problem is, and it is a big problem for you, is that you live in rented accommodation
But everyone who has children has the same problem tbh, how are they going to afford to buy a house and attain the same lifestyle as their parents
After all its about helping them have more than we ever had when growing up.
We took the risks and our families deserve to reap the reward.
Although if the kids had turned into ******* they would be getting zilch!!
#94
Scooby Regular
Surely with your A'level in Sociology you can see the massive hole in your argument?
If the risk is guaranteed then that means house prices can never fall and must always rise, that is the definition of a guarantee in this context.
You have said time and time again that a significant fall in house prices could be a reality. We have actually seen house prices fall after 2008.
Nobody with half a brain would think that house prices could never fall, they have and they will again
Therefore the risk is not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination.
You can't have it both ways, if you think the risk is guaranteed you are saying that house prices will NEVER fall, and I'm pretty sure that is not what you are saying.
You are just bitter about your poor choices in life and trying to justify those poor choices to make yourself feel better.
Saying that I'd be pretty p7ssed if I was thirty years old, aspiring to live on a barge and driving a ten year old Renault
Last edited by Dingdongler; 16 August 2013 at 10:38 PM.
#95
Surely with your A'level in Sociology you can see the massive hole in your argument?
If the risk is guaranteed then that means house prices can never fall and must always rise, that is the definition of a guarantee in this context.
You have said time and time again that a significant fall in house prices could be a reality. We have actually seen house prices fall after 2008.
Nobody with half a brain would think that house prices could never fall, they have and they will again
Therefore the risk is not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination.
You can't have it both ways, if you think the risk is guaranteed you are saying that house prices will NEVER fall, and I'm pretty sure that is not what you are saying.
You are just bitter about your poor choices in life and trying to justify those poor choices to make yourself feel better.
Saying that I'd be pretty p7ssed if I was thirty years old, aspiring to live on a barge and driving a ten year old Renault
If the risk is guaranteed then that means house prices can never fall and must always rise, that is the definition of a guarantee in this context.
You have said time and time again that a significant fall in house prices could be a reality. We have actually seen house prices fall after 2008.
Nobody with half a brain would think that house prices could never fall, they have and they will again
Therefore the risk is not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination.
You can't have it both ways, if you think the risk is guaranteed you are saying that house prices will NEVER fall, and I'm pretty sure that is not what you are saying.
You are just bitter about your poor choices in life and trying to justify those poor choices to make yourself feel better.
Saying that I'd be pretty p7ssed if I was thirty years old, aspiring to live on a barge and driving a ten year old Renault
#96
#97
This is off course 100% true, (like most of what you have posted on this topic)
The problem is, and it is a big problem for you, is that you live in rented accommodation
But everyone who has children has the same problem tbh, how are they going to afford to buy a house and attain the same lifestyle as their parents
The problem is, and it is a big problem for you, is that you live in rented accommodation
But everyone who has children has the same problem tbh, how are they going to afford to buy a house and attain the same lifestyle as their parents
Short and medium term it points to a sort of polarisation in society between those who own and those who don't. The former get richer, the latter poorer. And it isn't chance, it's being made that way by political decisions.
Rentier Capitalism.
#98
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The thing is F1 that many who wait for prices to come down don't then act when prices actually do. Prices fell in 2008 for a few years but it takes ***** to then invest in an asset that you are constantly told is falling in value.
Also when the prices are falling banks tend not to want to lend money.
A combination of these two factors meant loads of housepricecrash type jokers just sat on their hands when there were bargains to be had.
I'm not sure what they were waiting for. Did they really think people would give their houses away for a few quid?? Houses will never be cheap enough for a certain mindset of person. They basically want to buy a house with their savings, this works for a few people but not the majority.
If in a couple of years time we see a correction of 10,20, 30% they'll still sit on their hands because they'll not have the ***** to jump in. Then they'll cry and be bitter all over again when prices start to rise once more.
This is the vicious cycle that many renters get themselves into, and then they become bitter old men like TDW
Also when the prices are falling banks tend not to want to lend money.
A combination of these two factors meant loads of housepricecrash type jokers just sat on their hands when there were bargains to be had.
I'm not sure what they were waiting for. Did they really think people would give their houses away for a few quid?? Houses will never be cheap enough for a certain mindset of person. They basically want to buy a house with their savings, this works for a few people but not the majority.
If in a couple of years time we see a correction of 10,20, 30% they'll still sit on their hands because they'll not have the ***** to jump in. Then they'll cry and be bitter all over again when prices start to rise once more.
This is the vicious cycle that many renters get themselves into, and then they become bitter old men like TDW
People like jonc seem to completely ignore this fact as do all politicians. I am not saying to what degree it will affect the market as I am not skilled enough in the complexities of the economics, but the fact remains that at some point we need to properly start paying back what we have borrowed and the longer everyone ignores it the worse it will be when it happens.... all IMO of course.
#99
Scooby Regular
the problem is F1 neither are the economists
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 16 August 2013 at 11:31 PM.
#100
Scooby Regular
Ding you seem like a sensible chap so this isn't aimed at you, but there are people on this thread who seem to seriously think the market will never fall yet with a country as up to its eyes in debt as ours it could and probably should suffer a major property price correction in a few years time when the paymasters knock on the door of UK PLC and want some of their money back.
People like jonc seem to completely ignore this fact as do all politicians. I am not saying to what degree it will affect the market as I am not skilled enough in the complexities of the economics, but the fact remains that at some point we need to properly start paying back what we have borrowed and the longer everyone ignores it the worse it will be when it happens.... all IMO of course.
People like jonc seem to completely ignore this fact as do all politicians. I am not saying to what degree it will affect the market as I am not skilled enough in the complexities of the economics, but the fact remains that at some point we need to properly start paying back what we have borrowed and the longer everyone ignores it the worse it will be when it happens.... all IMO of course.
Houses are, for now anyway, 'investments' whether we like it or not. They behave like any other investment ie the prices rise and fall depending on supply/demand, they give a yield/return in terms of rent etc
Personally I don't for a second think that further hpc isn't a very real possibility and that the problems in our economy are far from fixed (and won't be fixed by just inflating property prices)
And as you have pointed out that neither you, I, or anybody else is skilled enough in the complexities of economics to predict what will happen to house prices.
And that actually is my point, we all make a call on the 'market'. It's an educated guess, a hunch, spider senses, call it what you will.
But when BTLers, landlords or even just regular homeowners make this call and it comes good (for now anyway) a segment of the population, TDW for example, are furious and bitter.
That's the bit that annoys me. Let individuals make their call on the market and live by their decisions. Don't be envious and angry if your decision turned out to be the wrong one.
TDW (and plenty of other housepricecrash renting types) will say that the govt is manipulating the market, but central banks and govts manipulate all markets ie gold, energy, currencies etc. Such is life, what can ya do?
But markets can only be manipulated so much, at some point they become uncontrollable.
People might misinterpret my posts and think the reason I say all these things is that I'm some sort property tycoon (or pretending to be one)
I can assure you that is not the case, but I defend the right of landlords, btlers etc to do what they want with their money and if they succeed wish them well.
I just can't stand the jealousy, envy and bitterness that people display when they get it wrong and somebody gets it right.
Last edited by Dingdongler; 17 August 2013 at 08:18 AM.
#101
Scooby Regular
Now my mate at work recently bought a house in Spain for 70k with your swimming pool and all that,I tell you something it knocks the other two houses that my mates have bought here by a long way.The money you can spend on property here I think is just silly.Eveyone is different of course,but I couldn't have a mortgage for 35 years,knowing I've got that debt around me for that amount of time..
I think it's just bonkers..
#102
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Won't be 35 years, but i predict they'll be more hiccups along the way than any previous 35 year mortgage
I'd love each to know just what proportion of the population work force benefits from increasing housing prices, ie people are putting up new stock. (houses) these are ultimately the only people that do benefit imo
I'd love each to know just what proportion of the population work force benefits from increasing housing prices, ie people are putting up new stock. (houses) these are ultimately the only people that do benefit imo
#103
Scooby Regular
Won't be 35 years, but i predict they'll be more hiccups along the way than any previous 35 year mortgage
I'd love each to know just what proportion of the population work force benefits from increasing housing prices, ie people are putting up new stock. (houses) these are ultimately the only people that do benefit imo
I'd love each to know just what proportion of the population work force benefits from increasing housing prices, ie people are putting up new stock. (houses) these are ultimately the only people that do benefit imo
#104
That maybe so,but we seem to have got this culture over the years in the UK where everyone wants the big house,with the big kitchen and the big dining room etc etc,and that's fair enough.The difference is if you want that in this country,you have to pay stupid money for it..
Like any market, it's obvious that property prices go down as well as up, but I bought a property as a home to raise my family, not to make a profit. If the market go, great but I'm not looking get any advantage out of the rise, likewise if the market goes down, it won't affect me as I'm not look to sell. For me it's just a home for my family and plan to stay where I am for some time.
#105
Scooby Regular
There is also the fact that people now tend to refer to property as just as an investment rather than just a home, even FTB. They buy a place, do it up and then try to sell it on in the hope of making a tidy a profit before moving on to the next property driving prices up further.
Like any market, it's obvious that property prices go down as well as up, but I bought a property as a home to raise my family, not to make a profit. If the market go, great but I'm not looking get any advantage out of the rise, likewise if the market goes down, it won't affect me as I'm not look to sell. For me it's just a home for my family and plan to stay where I am for some time.
Like any market, it's obvious that property prices go down as well as up, but I bought a property as a home to raise my family, not to make a profit. If the market go, great but I'm not looking get any advantage out of the rise, likewise if the market goes down, it won't affect me as I'm not look to sell. For me it's just a home for my family and plan to stay where I am for some time.
Driving along any road around that area now and all you see is for sale signs.Whether that is because the houses are getting passed on to the children and they can't afford the council tax,or they are just selling and making some money out of it, or for some other reason.
#106
Either way I'm sure they aim to make some profit on the sale of their property. These "private property developers" are as much to blame as BTL'ers if not more so in driving up prices.
#108
I think certain people feel being a landlord is an easy job.
Sit back and count the cash.
Unfortunately that's not the case. You do have to work at it and take the risk in the first place.
Lets give landlords a break eh!!
Sit back and count the cash.
Unfortunately that's not the case. You do have to work at it and take the risk in the first place.
Lets give landlords a break eh!!
#109
Scooby Regular
After all the hard work/costs are taken into account, what kind of yield does the average landlord earn? Or is the benefit of being a landlord more in the fact that you can have someone paying your mortgage for you (BTL)?
#110
I have a full time job which I live off.
Its the earlier retirement I want and getting them paid off will help.
#111
Scooby Regular
What kind of properties do you think are the best to go for? Low-priced ones with high yields and poor tenants are presumably best avoided. The high yield will be wiped out easily when you need to pay for something I'd imagine. If I was going to buy anything it would be something like a 1 bedroom flat in Glasgow city centre. A different quality of prospective tenants, so virtually no hassle - I would hope! For the past 5 years or so I've had a target to save to which would let me buy a decent city centre flat outright. It's just what to do with the money once I have it. I suppose a decent deposit on two flats would be an option, but the sums would have to add up. But I do like the idea of having a good quality city centre flat.
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 17 August 2013 at 05:23 PM.
#112
Scooby Regular
It's horses for courses but it makes no sense to buy a rental flat outright. Much better to split the cash and put deposits on 2-4 flats depending on your personal circumstances.
Or you could buy it outright and if/when you feel you want to expand then you can mortgage the property, release money and buy further properties.
In terms of yield you need to find the best balance for you. High yield properties as you say will often cause you lots of headache and will often also give poor capital growth.
If you can afford it you might be better off accepting a lower yield but have the chances of higher capital growth.
Or you could buy it outright and if/when you feel you want to expand then you can mortgage the property, release money and buy further properties.
In terms of yield you need to find the best balance for you. High yield properties as you say will often cause you lots of headache and will often also give poor capital growth.
If you can afford it you might be better off accepting a lower yield but have the chances of higher capital growth.
Last edited by Dingdongler; 17 August 2013 at 05:41 PM.
#113
Scooby Regular
It's horses for courses but it makes no sense to buy a rental flat outright. Much better to split the cash and put deposits on 2-4 flats depending on your personal circumstances.
Or you could buy it outright and if/when you feel you want to expand then you can mortgage the property, release money and buy further properties.
In terms of yield you need to find the best balance for you. High yield properties as you say will often cause you lots of headache and will often also give poor capital growth.
If you can afford it you might be better off accepting a lower yield but have the chances of higher capital growth.
Or you could buy it outright and if/when you feel you want to expand then you can mortgage the property, release money and buy further properties.
In terms of yield you need to find the best balance for you. High yield properties as you say will often cause you lots of headache and will often also give poor capital growth.
If you can afford it you might be better off accepting a lower yield but have the chances of higher capital growth.
#114
Scooby Regular
You need to do the maths for your own personal circumstances. At first glance, (and making lots of assumptions like no hpc the day after you buy!) buying 4 flats might be better than reinvesting the 5% return. The reason I say that is that with the 4 flats you have leveraged your investment and so your total return will be multiplied.
But all strategies carry a risk, and to some extent the more you leverage the greater the risk.
What I'm surprised about is the yield you mention. Of course I know nothing of Glasgow property but 5% seems low. Personally I wouldn't buy at a 5% yield unless it was in a trophy area ie prime central london.
You can get 6% all day long in London (nice areas on the tube line) and 7% if you hunt around.
Are you looking at new builds? I find these to be over priced and it maybe worth looking at older property especially period conversions etc (if you have these in Glasgow?)
But all strategies carry a risk, and to some extent the more you leverage the greater the risk.
What I'm surprised about is the yield you mention. Of course I know nothing of Glasgow property but 5% seems low. Personally I wouldn't buy at a 5% yield unless it was in a trophy area ie prime central london.
You can get 6% all day long in London (nice areas on the tube line) and 7% if you hunt around.
Are you looking at new builds? I find these to be over priced and it maybe worth looking at older property especially period conversions etc (if you have these in Glasgow?)
#115
Houses are, for now anyway, 'investments' whether we like it or not. They behave like any other investment ie the prices rise and fall depending on supply/demand, they give a yield/return in terms of rent etc
Personally I don't for a second think that further hpc isn't a very real possibility and that the problems in our economy are far from fixed (and won't be fixed by just inflating property prices)
And as you have pointed out that neither you, I, or anybody else is skilled enough in the complexities of economics to predict what will happen to house prices.
And that actually is my point, we all make a call on the 'market'. It's an educated guess, a hunch, spider senses, call it what you will.
But when BTLers, landlords or even just regular homeowners make this call and it comes good (for now anyway) a segment of the population, TDW for example, are furious and bitter.
That's the bit that annoys me. Let individuals make their call on the market and live by their decisions. Don't be envious and angry if your decision turned out to be the wrong one.
TDW (and plenty of other housepricecrash renting types) will say that the govt is manipulating the market, but central banks and govts manipulate all markets ie gold, energy, currencies etc. Such is life, what can ya do?
But markets can only be manipulated so much, at some point they become uncontrollable.
People might misinterpret my posts and think the reason I say all these things is that I'm some sort property tycoon (or pretending to be one)
I can assure you that is not the case, but I defend the right of landlords, btlers etc to do what they want with their money and if they succeed wish them well.
I just can't stand the jealousy, envy and bitterness that people display when they get it wrong and somebody gets it right.
Personally I don't for a second think that further hpc isn't a very real possibility and that the problems in our economy are far from fixed (and won't be fixed by just inflating property prices)
And as you have pointed out that neither you, I, or anybody else is skilled enough in the complexities of economics to predict what will happen to house prices.
And that actually is my point, we all make a call on the 'market'. It's an educated guess, a hunch, spider senses, call it what you will.
But when BTLers, landlords or even just regular homeowners make this call and it comes good (for now anyway) a segment of the population, TDW for example, are furious and bitter.
That's the bit that annoys me. Let individuals make their call on the market and live by their decisions. Don't be envious and angry if your decision turned out to be the wrong one.
TDW (and plenty of other housepricecrash renting types) will say that the govt is manipulating the market, but central banks and govts manipulate all markets ie gold, energy, currencies etc. Such is life, what can ya do?
But markets can only be manipulated so much, at some point they become uncontrollable.
People might misinterpret my posts and think the reason I say all these things is that I'm some sort property tycoon (or pretending to be one)
I can assure you that is not the case, but I defend the right of landlords, btlers etc to do what they want with their money and if they succeed wish them well.
I just can't stand the jealousy, envy and bitterness that people display when they get it wrong and somebody gets it right.
Waffling about supply and demand is just a platitude and a tautology. Question - when is a market not a market? When an actor like the state can do things like flood the 'market' with cheap credit? Set interest rates arbitrarily? Give cheap and guaranteed money out as deposits? Give banks cheap money? Perhaps when the 'market' becomes a de facto Ponzi scheme dependent upon people entering with more and more money to sustain?
Calling it a 'market' just legitimises all that as 'natural'. Plenty of the people you are lauding as having made great decision actually made rubbish ones except they were saved by the state. If the state introduced a 50% tax on property ownership tomorrow would you be rejoicing at the subsequent state of the property market? Only supply and demand...blah blah, derp derp. Oh well the state screwed me over....I'll just accept it like a bad day.
I'm not bitter about people's sucess. I'm bitter in that the flip side is that people like me pay for it, because the government has arranged it that way. I've not risked money in property so why should I lose money to it?
#117
Scooby Regular
You need to do the maths for your own personal circumstances. At first glance, (and making lots of assumptions like no hpc the day after you buy!) buying 4 flats might be better than reinvesting the 5% return. The reason I say that is that with the 4 flats you have leveraged your investment and so your total return will be multiplied.
But all strategies carry a risk, and to some extent the more you leverage the greater the risk.
What I'm surprised about is the yield you mention. Of course I know nothing of Glasgow property but 5% seems low. Personally I wouldn't buy at a 5% yield unless it was in a trophy area ie prime central london.
You can get 6% all day long in London (nice areas on the tube line) and 7% if you hunt around.
Are you looking at new builds? I find these to be over priced and it maybe worth looking at older property especially period conversions etc (if you have these in Glasgow?)
But all strategies carry a risk, and to some extent the more you leverage the greater the risk.
What I'm surprised about is the yield you mention. Of course I know nothing of Glasgow property but 5% seems low. Personally I wouldn't buy at a 5% yield unless it was in a trophy area ie prime central london.
You can get 6% all day long in London (nice areas on the tube line) and 7% if you hunt around.
Are you looking at new builds? I find these to be over priced and it maybe worth looking at older property especially period conversions etc (if you have these in Glasgow?)
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-42216545.html
Buchanan Street
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-40173928.html
These might not be central London, but they're not to be sniffed at. I can't afford London.
#118
There you go again trying to reason that the current rise in house prices is primarily the result of some 'automatic' or 'natural' supply vs demand behavior, ignoring the 'hard facts' about ultra low interest rates, funding for lending, help to buy, etc.
Waffling about supply and demand is just a platitude and a tautology. Question - when is a market not a market? When an actor like the state can do things like flood the 'market' with cheap credit? Set interest rates arbitrarily? Give cheap and guaranteed money out as deposits? Give banks cheap money? Perhaps when the 'market' becomes a de facto Ponzi scheme dependent upon people entering with more and more money to sustain?
Calling it a 'market' just legitimises all that as 'natural'. Plenty of the people you are lauding as having made great decision actually made rubbish ones except they were saved by the state. If the state introduced a 50% tax on property ownership tomorrow would you be rejoicing at the subsequent state of the property market? Only supply and demand...blah blah, derp derp. Oh well the state screwed me over....I'll just accept it like a bad day.
I'm not bitter about people's sucess. I'm bitter in that the flip side is that people like me pay for it, because the government has arranged it that way. I've not risked money in property so why should I lose money to it?
Waffling about supply and demand is just a platitude and a tautology. Question - when is a market not a market? When an actor like the state can do things like flood the 'market' with cheap credit? Set interest rates arbitrarily? Give cheap and guaranteed money out as deposits? Give banks cheap money? Perhaps when the 'market' becomes a de facto Ponzi scheme dependent upon people entering with more and more money to sustain?
Calling it a 'market' just legitimises all that as 'natural'. Plenty of the people you are lauding as having made great decision actually made rubbish ones except they were saved by the state. If the state introduced a 50% tax on property ownership tomorrow would you be rejoicing at the subsequent state of the property market? Only supply and demand...blah blah, derp derp. Oh well the state screwed me over....I'll just accept it like a bad day.
I'm not bitter about people's sucess. I'm bitter in that the flip side is that people like me pay for it, because the government has arranged it that way. I've not risked money in property so why should I lose money to it?
#119
Scooby Regular
That 5% would be a net yield by my rough calculations (guess). Over 6% in the Merchant city. Have you been there? It's nice.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-42216545.html
Buchanan Street
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-40173928.html
These might not be central London, but they're not to be sniffed at. I can't afford London.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-42216545.html
Buchanan Street
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-40173928.html
These might not be central London, but they're not to be sniffed at. I can't afford London.
Those flats look really nice and I wasn't trying to imply anything about Glasgow, I've never been.
For my own education can you tell me what the typical rent would be on those flats?
Cheers
#120
Scooby Regular
Between £600 and £700pcm.
It's a nice place. I think it would be great just being able to walk out of your door on a Saturday or Sunday morning and have a coffee outside a nice cafe and watch the world go by right in the centre of the city (in the summer here obviously!). Really nice architecture, friendly people and good shops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Cityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchanan_Street
"Buchanan Street is renowned for its variety in high street shopping, including flagship stores, with rents on the street being as much as £250 per square foot, making it the 6th most expensive street in the United Kingdom for retail rent, only surpassed by 5 streets in London. Buchanan Street is also the second busiest shopping thoroughfare, second only to Oxford Street in London. Glasgow has been recognized for being the second best shopping destination in the United Kingdom, after London, since 2008."
It's a nice place. I think it would be great just being able to walk out of your door on a Saturday or Sunday morning and have a coffee outside a nice cafe and watch the world go by right in the centre of the city (in the summer here obviously!). Really nice architecture, friendly people and good shops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Cityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchanan_Street
"Buchanan Street is renowned for its variety in high street shopping, including flagship stores, with rents on the street being as much as £250 per square foot, making it the 6th most expensive street in the United Kingdom for retail rent, only surpassed by 5 streets in London. Buchanan Street is also the second busiest shopping thoroughfare, second only to Oxford Street in London. Glasgow has been recognized for being the second best shopping destination in the United Kingdom, after London, since 2008."
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 17 August 2013 at 08:36 PM.