brendy76

iTrader: (6)

Is it just me or is communication a 2 way thing, you knew you were moving so could have let them know to help the process along and not cost us tax payers so much.

Leslie

Let me add my congratulations as well. You obviously handled it exactly right and your own evidence must have been pretty strong.

Sort of result that should make the council think twice in future. Hope it cost them a bomb!

Les

AsifScoob

As promised, some more details, for those of you who may be interested.

Sorry for the delay in this but there has been rather a lot of (combined) celebrating going on, including right up until today!

I want to say thanks again for the positive comments and if anyone else has more detailed questions or similar problems, please feel free to let me know. PM is fine.

Most of what I said in post #15 covers what happened. A bit more background:

AFAIK all local authorities use Northampton County Court, or more accurately Northampton Traffic Enforcement Centre (NTEC), as a centralised processing centre for any local authority traffic violation escalations.

For parking tickets, or PCN's, they normally go through the Appeals service, or PATAS. If, as in my case this failed due to time, then NTEC is the next step. There, you have the option of filing a Witness Statement, stating that you did not receive the Notice to Owner, therefore unable to reply to the Appeals service in time, etc.

If you fail their process, as I did, it goes back to the local authority, who hand it over to their bailiffs, which is what happened to me. The bailiffs are scary, even though I didn't meet any!

They kept going to the old place (which I still own) and demanding money, from 'somebody'. I did speak to them and they are uncompromising and ruthless. They will also lie and intimidate in order to get their way. Despite me telling them I did not live there, so stop going round, they persisted. But it was greed, lies, and deceit that did for them in the end.

I spoke to a very good solicitor, lady called Sheila, from a company called Bailiff Advice. In her own words she is the leading authority, in the country, on these matters! Anyway, for £10 she told me everything I needed to know.

Turns out the bailiffs were turning up to my house to 'levy distress' and charged me a cool £500 plus for it. As bailiffs are only allowed to charge you money for the first three visits they make, they were in great haste to make three visits to me.

However, when questioned, I asked them how they were able to 'levy distress' on me and my vehicle if neither was present? They replied that they only turned up in order to 'levy distress' but obviously didn't as neither me or my car was there.

Their invoice clearly states 'levy distress' on it though and the charges reflect that. They went quiet after that. I have written to the MD to ask for his written response on that and surprise surprise, he hasn't responded.

This matter is not over and I am going to harangue these idiots and use their deceit to embarrass my local authority. Thanks to the link from Dave Hutton, will imply a complaint of fraud to the Old Bill, to see if that brings them out from under their rock.

Anyway, back to the Court. The Judge was very quick to ask me, right at the outset, as to why I hadn't filled out the correct address on the forms to NTEC? His manner, initial abruptness, and level of focus on this, had me quite worried in the first few seconds.

I let him finish and stated simply, "Because the form told me to, Sir". He then expressed surprise at this. I offered to show him what I was talking about and went to his desk and pointed out to him the first line on the TEC9 form, which states quite clearly that ALL details must be the same as on the TEC3 form.

He then looks at the TEC3 form and can see that I have put the correct address, as required. He is then silent for a second. I offer that the procedure has since changed, in case he was not aware, and is no longer done in this fashion. Funnily enough this was a clear loophole as the new procedure seems to take into account my circumstances of a change of address.

I then point out the inconsistent communication from the council and how they had contradicted themselves. And that was it. He had no hesitation at that point and said that the case should go back to NTEC.

I can now apply for one of the statutory reasons of why I was out of time and the thing will go back and back.

As the Borough have not contested the case at the County Court, I will go along the lines that this shows their intent and get the whole matter thrown out.

It's not completely over, but the scary bit is certainly.

Thanks again.

Asif

Martin 2010

iTrader: (9)

simple words of shaggy - Wasnt me

JTaylor

Excellent. Now, you know when he said you must have been "well brought up", how did you react and what do you think his reasons for saying this were? Was thinking about it the other night - seems like a very odd thing to say.

AsifScoob

I thought it was an odd thing to say too, but wasn't surprised by it. I did my best to charm him and succeeded.

Not being big headed. In the end I thanked him for his decision, his conduct, and how I was made to feel - all positive.

I stood up to go and pushed my chair in. He asked me to leave it for the next person. I apologised and just said something about 'habit'. He then made his comment.

As I said I did think odd, but smiled to myself, in a slightly smug sort of way, as you would when you win in court.

Worth pointing out that after I pointed out to him the instruction I followed on the TEC9 form, he didn't ask me to prove any of the other statements I made. He could see that I had a large pile of organised paper in front of me, so clearly felt I had sufficient credibility.

So, why did that in particular stick in your mind James?

Asif

JTaylor

Seems like the sort of thing one would say to a well behaved child or a sub-normal adult who held a door open for the person behind. I just can't imagine it being said to a grown-up by another grown-up. I'd have slapped 500 quid on his bench and told him to **** off.

AsifScoob

LOL!

ritchie21

Congratulations!! As a lawyer, I never mind when I'm dealing with a litigant in person and always try to be as helpful as I can. I've even been known to drop a case after speaking directly to the other side!! What is always difficult is when you're dealing with someone who simply wants a fight.

Sounds like you did everything right and got the right result!

Laura

AsifScoob

Thank you.

What's your view of my chances of making a successful complaint of attempted fraud against the Bailiff company please? If you say no chance I will still try to do it!

Asif

AsifScoob

This is a good question and you are right to point this out. I received my ticket on the 6th June, but moved house on the 9th July.

Obviously I was not going to change my address before the 9th of July.

In this time the matter was escalated to the Notice to Owner stage, but by the time it would have been produced, it would and did, go to the wrong address.

It is exactly the sort of situation that the now previous procedures, whch I had to go through, created. Thankfully this at least, is no more.

Asif

r32

Well done, nice to see the common man win against the Council for once.

Leslie

Well done Asif, hope it all comes to a fully successful conclsion.

Les

ritchie21

In all honesty, I have no idea!! Are you going to attempt to pursue a criminal complaint or deal with it as a civil matter?

You seem set on doing something about it anyway, so good luck!