TelBoy

I haven't bothered to look i'll admit, can you copy/paste the relevant law that says it was a red card tackle? I'd be interested to see the exact wording.

what would scooby do

The guidelines given in 2009 and reiterated again at the start of this World Cup state:

"The player is lifted and then forced or 'speared' into the ground (red card offence).

"The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player's safety (red card offence).

"For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles a yellow card or penalty may be considered sufficient."

CrisPDuk

Can't remember the exact wording Tel, but the gist is that, if a player makes a tackle that lifts the opposing player's feet off the ground, and above his head, it is the tackling player's responsibility to bring his opponent to ground safely.

In my opinion Warburton made a good, hard, safe tackle, unfortunately Clerc's feet swung up as a result. Warburton did the right thing in releasing him

I think the rule came about as a result of the Middle Earthers attempting to cripple BOD on '05 Lions tour

TelBoy

Hmm, then in my opinion, by letting go of the player, Warburton was showing regard for the player's safety. He could have held on and drilled him, but didn't.

zip106

But he could also have held on and not drilled him.

Either way, I think the ref would have seen it as a red card.
Once the players feet are off the ground in that position the ref would see the perceived 'intent' from the tackler - whether the tackler had any malicious intent or not (I don't believe in this case he did).

The Law is the Law in rugby.
It just needs to be consistent in it's application.

TelBoy

But at full speed, i seriously can't think what more Warburton could have done. All very well in super slow motion but rugby isn't a game like that. At what point would he have had regard for the tackled player's safety? Where in the Law does it define that? And guessing that it doesn't, the Law in this instance sucks, in my opinion.

zip106

Tel, I'm totally with you on this.
But let's remember that the ref also watches the game at full speed and sees what he sees.
Therefore, he has to apply the law on what he saw and in this instance he saw an 'intent' tackle = red card.
The ref may have looked back at the video and realised it should have been yellow, but as you say, the game isn't played in slo mo.

I watch and coach rugby every week and see tackles/infringements that players are pinged for that I don't think were wrong.
Then when I watch the game back I realise the ref was right.


(apologies if my grammar is bad - on the iPhone )

TelBoy

I think what the commentators said makes sense; if you're going to brandish a red card, especially in an International, go to the fourth official and get a second opinion, or watch it again lineside in slow motion on a monitor. Decisions that big need to be right. Grrr!

zip106

True.

I've seen penalties go between the sticks not given because all four officials couldn't see or agree where the ball went!

jonc

I think the ref was fair and right. Looking at the sequence of pictures here he fell foul for lifting Clerc quite high (chest height) holding one leg and tiping him before dropping him to the ground. I think had it been a French player doing the same tackle, the Welsh supporters would have agreed with the ref for giving a red card and sending off the French player. The guidelines for dangerous tackles have been in place since 2009 and every player and ref would be fully aware of these rules.

CrisPDuk

Actually in Rugby, if the ref is unsure in any situation, he can call for video evidence to be reviewed, he doesn't need to make his decision based solely on what he saw in real time.

CrisPDuk

That picture sequence shows **** all though

When you actually watch a replay of the tackle from the opposite side, you can clearly see that Warburton releases Clerc as soon as he realises he's going over

You have to remember also that Warburton was limited in his options, he was in the process of being tackled himself whilst he had hold of Clerc.

zip106

And how many actually do that?
In my 20 year experience of watching Premiership or Div 1, not very often.

zip106

As it is, the ref made a decision to the letter and we all have to abide by it.
One of the core values of rugby is, as you know, Respect.

That includes refereering decisions.

Account deleted by request

The fact is that it neither matters whether he was forced into the ground or dropped. Both are a red card offence.

At the point you lift someone to that height it is your responsibility to put them down in a safe manner.

Yes he is a little unlucky as these things happen in an instant and he was also being tackled but by the rule book the ref was probably right. It would have been interesting to see what happened if he went upstairs with it.

Either way I am delighted and relived the Welsh lost as we would have never heard the end of it I'd you had of won

Chop

duckdo

just like we dont here the last of it when england win anythig

Account deleted by request

The difference being boyo that sometimes we just do win

Chop

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Come on, roll it out then...

The inevitable 1966 Football World Cup victory.

Plus don't claim the Ashes either as the team is actually formed by players from the England and Wales Cricket Board.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

What's passed in the Rugby World Cup has gone now, bad decision or wrong referee (apparently he has dual Irish & French citizenship/passports as well) it's all history now. We should now concentrate on beating the convicts.

lozgti1

Just hope they don't turn rugby all girly.

Great tackle I thought.When I played it was just don't tackle too high which was basically don't go for the neck

jonc

Rugby World Cup Final 2003
Australia 17 - 20 England

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

So then what are the odds on :

Martin Johnson doing the honourable thing and resigning?

Or

Martin Johnson getting the Spanish archer?

I may be Welsh but England have gone backwards at a rate of knots under his control, mind you for me it may well be better if he stayed.

duckdo

boyo nice pmsl !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Account deleted by request

Chop

Leslie

He did not actually "spear" him and in fact let go so that would not happen and he fell safely.

I don't think it deserved such a bad penalty as a red for that tackle.

I was very sorry that the Welsh team did not win, with 15 men I think they would have done.

Les

jonc

It matters not, just be glad it'll be the French rather than the Welsh who will suffer a crushing and humilating defeat against the AB.

CrisPDuk

With 14 men they still should have done, but they wasted too many opportunities

richieh

Given the number of registered players England have plus how much money they pump into the game its quite amazing that they dont win everything.
It would almost seem to suggest that number for number they are just less able
cheers richie

vindaloo

Form book suggests French will lose badly. However, they've got one game left to play and it's all to play for. I think NZ played their best game last w/e. Whether they can match that intensity for another full 80 minutes is the question. I still think they've got too much go in them for the French to handle though.

J.

Will

Regardless of what happend, I'm very proud of boys

Did you see the NZ v Aus game??


New Zealand beat Australia 20-6.






I haven't seen All Blacks run riot like that since the London riots.