JTaylor

The working class ought to recall the old divide and conquer axiom and refrain from fighting with one another. As Hodgy observes, the notion of a race to the bottom is absurd.

As for the issue itself, there's no solution as far I can see; no absolute. If I were a public sector worker I'd feel cheated and betrayed, as though my employer had reneged on the deal. As a bystander I understand that the country is staring in to an economic abyss and has to welch in order to avoid bankruptcy in the short-term and the passing on of unserviceable debt to our children and theirs.

I guess the public sector need to take a stand in order to secure the best possible deal that can actually be brokered. If they roll over and give HMG an inch, it'll almost certainly take a mile.

There'll be propaganda and spin from both sides until this is levelled out, but during this interim, let's not turn on each other.

c_maguire

The current offer on the table is overly generous as it stands and represents a 'best case scenario' for the Public Sector as a whole, being weighted in favour of those on lower incomes.
Nothing wrong there, but those on the lower incomes aren't running the unions. And the bigger earners (inc. the Union bigwigs who have the most to lose) are in the right place to peddle their agendas.
And can anyone argue that striking on a turnout of 30%, so a vote in favour of perhaps 16% of total members is anything but a joke? Public Sector employees feel so strongly about this issue that 70% can't even be arsed to vote.

Diesel

I wonder if the 12,000+ on £50k+ pensions are striking too? All this dosh and living longer too. Better even than a bankers bonus!

The facts are a muddle of spin and BS on both sides so have to go with instinct on this one...

Chip

Not just private sector but public as well to the tune of £100 billion abd they just can't see it can they.

Idiots!

Chip

Chip

Ryan@Indigo-GT

iTrader: (4)

I think it's important that workers should be able to strike both private and public sector so if they want to strike, democracy being what it is, who am I to say they are wrong to do so?

In terms of the bigger issues, there does need to be a normalisation across the board between public and private sector pensions, the reality is pensions as they currently stand need to be reformed, in their current format, they are unaffordable.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

The whole country is in the sh*t, I'm in it, you're in it, we're all in it ... going on strike just piles more misery on us with zero gain. Sort yourselves out for ***** sake

TX.

zip106

Ah well, my kids school is open tomorrow, and what with many people having to stay at home to look after theirs I'm hoping for a nice easy drive into work.

Petem95

Absolutely no support for them what-so-ever.

Whatever your view the massive public sector is TOTALLY unaffordable. The country cannot keep borrowing money to pay for them.

We need to face up to reality here - if the Army, Navy and Airforce and the NHS were scrapped the country would still be run at a deficit. The UK, like many other Western countries, are living a lie - this standard of living just isn't sustainable.

Berks-Jack

iTrader: (10)

I'm in the same situation as you. 3 years ago tomorrow I got made redundant from the private sector. I'll never forget driving home, wondering how I was going to tell my fiancé and 6 week old daughter that I was out of a job and that we could lose everything. Luckily, I found a job quite soon and things turned out ok. We've had to make some sacrifices but I'm grateful to be employed and that we've kept our house.

The attitude of some of the old school council workers at our offices/ depots stinks. They do what they want and when they want. Management are stuck with them as they are protected by the union and the council won't dismiss them for fear of being sued. It's the people that walk around doing f*ck all, all day, that will be striking tomorrow, always with something to say about how they are hard done by rather than getting their heads down and actually doing some work.

TelBoy

Amen with bells on. This is all you need to know.


Personally i don't even think i'll notice there's a strike on today. Are there picket lines and all the other prehistoric paraphanalia to go with it?

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

is it no wonder we have so many youngters on the dole when the oldies are being now made too work up till 67 for christ's sake, this country is going from bad too worse
Cheers
Colin

TelBoy

Colin, do you know any teachers on strike today, who might have a few spare hours?

Coupe-Se

One of my rare posts :

My wife recently WAS a Unison rep but soon walked away once she get involved with the inner workings.

She voted 'NO' to this strike as did all the Unison members in her building as they all felt the deal offered was reasonable compared to what us lot in the real world are getting. The majority (like my wife) are just glad to have a job in this climate and see their partners working without payrises and in very uncertain times.

My wife since voting NO got sent through 2 more sets of ballot papers asking her to vote yes. A local Unison big wig visited her building 3 TIMES to aggressively pursuade everyone that they should be voting yes. The visit number 3 turned nasty as no-one was willing to play ball with the Unison rep and he stormed out.

As has been said only 50%+ of the returned ballot papers voted yes, no where near 50% of total members were in favour. My wife received 3 sets of ballot papers ........... i wonder if the YES voters received the same number?

Unison boss's live on another planet and members subscriptions pay for all sorts of weird marches and campaigns against the government (labour and conservative) that have no bearing what so ever to its members. The various partys and events with big prizes for attendee's are all paid out of Unison subs. My wife is still on the rep mailing list and it makes my blood boil to see what they get up to. Its an old boys club that has bulging coffers of spare cash that is misused on personal crusades and jollys.

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

I think those that don't agree with the strikes should stop and put themselves in the shoes of those being affected. Having to work longer, pay more, with less return when they eventually retire, and now fighting to stop that from happening... would YOU sit back and take that? Especially when it's not YOUR fault that the country is in the state its in....

They're standing up for themselves.... fair play I say.

As for those having to take one day out to look after kids? Poor you. In future, wrap it up before you slap it up.

Ant

My bin didnt get entries this morning so they're on the top of my **** list.

Sack em! Half of them are off Xmas shopping

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Except whether it is their fault or not there isn't the money available to allow things to continue as they are ..... even the stupidest person must get that from the Autumn Statement made yesterday by Osborne.... what do they want..... more debt and borrowing so they can have their gilt edged pensions and early retirement?

TelBoy

So no public sector worker ever borrowed beyond their means, is that what you're suggesting?? Please clarify the point you're making here.

jasey

Yep - that's what **** Brown did to the real workers a few years back.

And as it's us that have to pay for the public pensions - it's their turn to get fcuked.

HTH.

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

So you're looking for a scapegoat right? And telling me you'd happily bend over and have what you've worked for taken away just to keep the rest of the country afloat?

I didn't think so.

And that's the fault of who? The individual or the loans culture in this country? Surely the credit companies/banks etc with dubious risk-based policies must take the flak?

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

'Real workers' being...?

jasey

People who, if they are $hit at their jobs, get sacked.

TelBoy

Come on Tim, have the ***** to stand up and admit that public sector workers, as much as anyone else, were jointly responsible for their own financial mis-management. It isn't "surely" somebody else's fault other than their own.

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

So you're implying that all those striking are **** at their jobs?

Yeah, that sounds fair.

An0n0m0us

+1

TelBoy

No, he's probably alluding to all those under-performing teachers and nurses who effectively cannot be sacked, and therefore ride the gravy train for all its worth. Surely even you would acknowledge that the public sector is dreadfully inefficient in so many, many ways. It needs radically overhauling, and not just the fairytale pension schemes.

Dr.No

One of my Facebook friends has just posted this, so I can't take the credit for it, but it pretty much sums up my thoughts on this:

Strikers! Why not concentrate on outing the wastage, the layabouts (yes, you all know who they are, because it's always you that has to pick up after them); the stupid amounts of red tape, the middle management who are in "non-jobs" just because of a process which hasn't been streamlined; the top layer of management who are in the top 1% of earners (do they really need a 6 figure salary?); the union reps who, let's be honest, are looking out for themselves more than they are for you (I've seen them in action) and anything else where you think "that could be done better" but get slapped down because someone feels threatened by it.

You already get a fairly decent pension, flexi days, extra holidays - maybe you could keep those if you helped save a bit of money like the rest of us are trying to do.

I can quite understand that you're narked, but it's not just you that's going through all of this. Some of us run businesses and provide jobs and don't even get the luxuries that you guys have.

Anyway, rant over... You may continue your Christmas shopping.