14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

The electrical system theory is not as dubious as you think. If the HIgh voltage switch board that distributes the power to the propulsion motors is burnt out then they have no propulsion at all. All ships have an emergency generator and a redundancy factor when it comes to the electrical generators but if the switch board itself is damaged then no power can be distributed to the propulsion motors.

DCI Gene Hunt

The propulsion system is protected by UPS, allowing partial control as speed of less than 6 knots - the HV failing would not effect the Captains ability to steer the vessel. There is also a completely redundant set of steering gear regardless of the UPS back up, so I fail to see how an HV failure would have this effect.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well I am no expert, but my father was a marine engineer and was involved in an investigation into a ship running aground in the 80s, one of the issues was that the vessel had no secondary steering or propulsion system.

I thought I remembered him saying that (maybe as a result of investigations like that or otherwise) that all passenger carrying vessels should have a backup propulsion and steering system.

Anyway it was a very long time ago so maybe I am mistaken.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Isn't that what happened to the Canberra in the 1960's ?

An electrical/generator failure occured and someone in aim to resolve the issue messed about which led to a selctrical fire causing heavy damage to the HV system and cutting almost all power to the ship. There was no method of propulsion as wiring from all three generators had been damaged.

I know its a 1960's ship and things do improve with time, but it is still essentially a electric propelled ship like the modern ones, so a catastrophic electrical failure "could" occur with the same end result.

DCI Gene Hunt

It sounds the same but there are strict guidelines around the design of ships now... Costa Concordia was commissioned in 2006 so would been designed to meet the (at that time) new standard "DNV 2006 Pt.6 Ch.19 Emergency Propulsion".

Daryl

If a power failure occurred while the vessel was at full speed, by the time the back-up systems kicked in it could be too late to avoid grounding.

At this stage though, nobody knows what actually happened, although the captain is claiming that they hit an uncharted rock.

Most maritime casualties involve an element of human error. In this case, my guess would be that it was complacent to allow the ship to get within 300 metres of a charted danger, especially as that is essentially one ship's length.

albob

An Insurance claim for the loss of the ship has been made already, for several Million euro's. On the claim form the Captain has said :

"I hit a rock that wasn't there and the ship just fell over"

The insurance assessor has rejected this, pointing out that a rock can be seen sticking out of the side of his ship.

The Captain response was:

"Somebody must have put it there after I left - I think it was the passengers : There was enough of them left on board, after I abandon them, to lift that rock!"

eelz

iTrader: (10)

Watching the news about the stricken cruise ship & the presenter said "She's lying on her side with a gash the size of a tennis court". I just happened to glance at the missus and now it's all kicked off...

SLAB

iTrader: (77)

Could be sold as a CAT D Spares or repair 1 owner from new.
Needs lower port side panel slight electrical problem easy fix
Pick up only
Open to sensible offers
No time wasters genuine bidders only please.
Will need a tug boat to move

STEVEBOXER

Hi.allegedly the captain was having a few beers some hours before and was 4 miles off course and left the ship before the last passengers got off!
If this is true I hope he gets the maximum of 12 years for manslaughter!!!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Weld on a few patches, smooth it off with a bit of U-PoL, lick of paint and then we have a cheap solution for the Queen:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...1326675089560A

Dip-yer-bread Clegg!!!

urban

iTrader: (1)

Having been on a Carnival cruise twice, I've seen the amount of training and drills that the staff go through.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if its the same, but when I went on a Princess Cruise many years ago (it was steam-turbine powered ship FFS - thats how long ago! ) all the passengers had to do a drill, upon hearing the alarm, put on a life vest and find their assigned muster points and then await instruction from the crew.

One has to remember if passengers were told to go to muster points, its possible that those muster points were no longer assessible due to the listing/sinking.

Also because of the severe listing, only life boats on the one side could not be lowered properly as they would get stuck against the side of the hull. The problem is the side where life boats can sucessfully be lowered and released is the is the same side that is sinking! So 'normal' evacuation plans could notbe followed. Hence panic and confusion.

Hysteric screaming from passengers doesn't help as it drowns out any instructions given.
The women and children first protocol seems seems daft in this day and age. It should be disabled, famlies and elderly first.

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

You dont get out much do you

I suggest a nice Mediterranean cruise

Dr Hu

They should NEVER have de-commissioned Royal Yacht Brittania - that was a scandal....!

It bought in way more than it cost to run...

Dr Hu

Hey I've seen Seaside Rescue - where was the Italian CoastGuard? - If you lose motive power whether your a dinghy or a liner you place a distress call & *the* numero uno priority for the Coastguard is stopping the vessel losing steering way & drifting into rocks.... esp. with that many people on board.

The Captain has A LOT of explaining to do......

Leslie

The captain has claimed that the accident happened because his chats did not show the presence of the rock that they hit.

He has not said that there was anything wrong with the propulsion or steering.

Still a big mistake to pass a rocky coast so closely, no one would be so silly as to do that around the SE Devon coast in a big ship without a pilot on board.

Les

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Apparently he was literally 'showboating' by bringing the boat close into shore and blowing his foghorn.

It has apparently been done before (although maybe only at high tide!).

He's toast!

fitzscoob

I'd have thought more likely to be bruschetta.

jef

iTrader: (13)

im going for the "someone put the rock there after it sank" theory, it was driving normally and then just fell over!

for the "media truth" it apprears the captins fooked! and was being a tw*t, ending up costing lives.
wether thats the case or not, remains to be seen

urban

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much the same.
All passengers must do a drill on the first day they board the ship.

The last one I was on had something like 4000 passengers and 2000 staff.
I don't fancy the chances of everyone getting of in the event of an incident, would be complete chaos

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

The control systems for the steering will be protected by the UPS yes (batteries will only be 220V) and the actual steering motors moving the rudders them selves will be fed by off the emergency switchboard (690V) fed by the emergency generator.

The main propulsion motors will be HV and will be in excess of 2.2kV (probably 6.6kV) which is fed directly off the main switch board. What UPS battery provides 6.6kV to provide propulsion of up to 6 knots? The 690V emergency genny is in no way shape of form able to provide power to our propulsion motors.

Yes they would have steering but they would have no propulsion and if you have ever tried to drive a boat with just rudders and no propulsion you will know the effects.

I am not saying for one second my theory is correct, its just plausible that they somehow lost the HV switchboard's and therefore had no propulsion.


Yes all ships have to comply with the 'single failure criteria' which basically means they must have a redundancy factor built into their steering system. Typically this is two individual steering rams/pumps, two separate hydraulic tanks etc so that if one fails you have a back up.

LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7r8j1NjNCE

urban

iTrader: (1)

11 dead now
I'd say that the captain is fcuked, and quite likely to get banged up for a considerable length of time

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Well the cruise company have very quickly washed their hands of him and pointed their finger of blame solely on to him.

That'll probably blow back in their face with regards to maintaining standards/disapline on the bridge and code of practice etc etc.

I don't care much for companies that are so quick to blame people without blaming themselves first.....they employed him afterall!

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

I work for that company in question and of course they will no accept liability for what the Captain and deputy captain did.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The black box and the coastguards report do not reflect well on the captain.

The boat sailed to within 300m of the shore as he was showboating to a relative (son I think).

The rock that the boat hit is clearly on the chart - also the depth of water in that area was clearly less than the draught of the boat.

The captain refused to call mayday, or abandon ship - the coastguard was alerted by a passenger.

The captain did not steer into shallower water - the boat drifted there under it's own momentum

The crew effectively mutinied by launching life boats before the captain had called the order

The coastguard instructed him to abandon ship.

The captain was one of the first to leave and recorded telephone conversations between the captain and the coastguard record the coastguard repeatedly ordering the captain to return to the ship to oversee the evacuation - and he flatly refused to comply even though under maritime law that having abandoned ship the captain is then responsible to the coastguard.


Finally, Rose Metcalfe, 23, a British employee and dancer working on the boat has fabulous legs!

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Good God, if the above is true is heading to jail.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yup.

And questions will have to be raised in how does a company employ such a captain with poor regard to standards of practice. Carnival can't point its fingers and then think its all in the clear.....

Reminds me very much of the case with an airline captain who was employed despite being incompetent at his job. Whilst knowing this, the airline employed him anyway....then he crashed the plane! (I forget which flight it was, I think it was Swiss IIRC)

MattJ85

iTrader: (3)

Yeah you've got to love SOLAS, I work for cross channel ferries and for us drills are carried out daily, full scale evacuations every week. Then full multi agency evacuations with coastguard lifeboats and helicopters every year

And seeing as sea transport is regulated to IMO standards this will be the same world wide