GC8

Theres a lot of complete bollocks spouted on this thread (not the above btw, which is what Ive suggested), but about consumer law in general.

James - five years in Norn Iron (& Scotland), six years in England & Wales and a depreciated credit is an alternative to repair or replacement.

Jamz3k

Hey I'm not one to argue with a clan of keyboard warriors I just know how many times I've been threatened with solicitors due to the trade act of ya de ya but have yet to give out a free TV or replacement or seen as much as a solicitors letter. I got tv's collected and assessed, I've even sorted out part payment for repairs as gestures of goodwill from the manufacturer but a refund or new TV? Na!

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Three words - fit for purpose.

Sell $h1t that stops working after 18 months, and guess what part of that bargain you're not living up to?

Leslie

I would not let them get away with it COB. You are entitled to an item which works correctly, why would you take it back if it was working anyway.

I think you need to make a nuisance of yourself!

Les

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

I love how this thread developed

We received in the post our gold card as it had got lost

So we have our proof of purchase. For some reason they've decided to start working now so at least we're armed if they go again. I've not had the fight in me this week tbh.

Scooby Soon!

good luck taking that back after 3 years/4 years/ 5 years

Scooby Soon!

The only reason Argos give you an exchange or your money back is to get rid of you as your holding up the line, unfortunately when they do this they set some sort of precedent in peoples heads that they are entitled to it at every shop when ever they have a problem.

The amount of people who I used to deal with who would always state "I KNOW MY RIGHTS" when in fact they knew nothing, people used to bring things that they had smashed (e.g. something made of glass) and demand a refund.

If you have a problem with an item find your receipt take it back to the shop (not on the busiest day of the year i.e. a week before christmas) be nice to the assistant, don't swear and I will be very surprised if you have a problem returning or exchanging.

GC8

You have little idea what youre talking about. I can say with certainty that DSG have a team of people whose job it is to deal with depreciated credit refunds for Dixons/Currys/PCW products which have failed after four or five years.

Do shop assistants really understand the law? I doubt that many do, but the companies that they work for do and whilst they dont offer you settlement on a plate, they do pay.

SRSport

Taken from businesslink.gov

Conform to contract, among other areas, state that you "must ensure the goods or services are 'fit for purpose'. This means they should be capable of doing what they are meant for up to..."

This is why I laugh at retailers/manufacturers offering 3-5 years warranties for extra. Thanks but I'll choose the 6 year one for free (assuming it is an item where 6 years is a reasonable length of time to expect it to work, e.g. TVs).

I would be a little cautious about waiting for solicitors letters as you may well find yourself having to foot the bill as having to involve solicitors could be seen as causing inconvenience and breaching your legal obligations.

Scooby Soon!

SRSport

Well done.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

I havent read all the replies but if they still do them then buy another set with cash... wait a month and take the faulty ones back for a full refund

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I'd be surprised if that was the case, since all my communication with them was over the phone. The only time I actually went instore was after they agreed to replace the TV and told me to bring the TV in for the exchange. Oh and for the record, I was perfectly nice to the lady I spoke to.

I've worked in retail for 13 years now and I've dealt with some people like you describe so I know how it feels to be on the receiving end, but some people along the way are in the right. I was in the right, and I very much doubt they would have budged if they thought otherwise, especially as I wasn't instore holding up the queue. I don't claim to be an expert in retail law, but I have learned some stuff along the way and keep doing so, hence how I found out about the durability aspect.

Out of curiosity, why shouldn't a customer go instore if they have problems if they have all they need just because it is busy? I agree (obviously) about being nice, but I don't understand why you would suggest they shouldn't go in if it's busy, they still have rights whatever time of year it is, and a customer can't help when they might have problems with a product. It might be an inconvenience to you, but that is retail....

Scooby Soon!

Have you read the SOGA properly yet?

SRSport

If I have missed something I apologise but its worked for me. Can you explain what I have misunderstood?

Dingdongler

You seem to speak in riddles. If you disagree with what srs says why don't provide the proof. He has gone to the trouble of posting the relevant law/regulations. If you think he is wrong then show us why, if not accept he is right.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Whilst there is no way I am going to read all of that completely, a skim read flags up at Part II, 14, F12, 2B. That may not be a good way of listing the part I am referring to, but I'm sure you can find where I mean...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

Even here, durability is mentioned, as it is, in the link I have provided earlier.

Part four in the below link:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advic.../sogaexplained

Granted this does not say in every case people can return goods within 6 years and expect a refund/replacement or repair (as an item may not be necessarily expected to last that long), but it is clear in that a customer has 6 years in which they can claim for an item, albeit, not for wear and tear. This may give legal rights to customers even if a warranty or guarantee has ended.

I'm not being funny, but what info are you so privvy to that enables you to argue with anything that has been presented to you, making you right and us wrong? You may even be in the right, but so far all you have done is be dismissive, you still haven't actually put any information up to back up your stance on this.

Dingdongler

Exactly.

Scooby Soon!

I was not having a personal dig at anyone on here, and if you work in retail I am sure you will have experienced "experts' telling you how to do your job.... unfortunately people hear a tiny bit of a law or regulation and immediately have it interpreted by there mate down the pub who was going to do a degree in a law and never got round to it.

There is no 6 year warranty on goods! people continually band this around as if its law, its not!



In my experiance you have 6 years to raise a complaint, it does not mean your complaint will be upheld. After you have owned the item for 6 months it is up to you the customer to prove the fault was inherent in the design (this can be very difficult to prove) and that it should have lasted a longer amount of time before it broke.

For example if you purchase a TV for £500 and it breaks down after 4 and half years after you have gone through all the polava of proving that it has an inherent fault and you have not worn it out due to using it or abusing it the court might award in your favour. This does not mean you will get another tv, it does not mean you will get it fixed or repaired you may get a proportionate refund of your purchase price.

e.g. tv cost £500 and lasted 4 and a half years, the court believes it should have lasted a reasonable amount of time that they set at 5 years. you have missed out on 6 months TV so they will award you a £50 refund.

They may not award you anything and agree that 4 and a half years was a reasonable amount of time for it to last.

I think there have already been a few cases with washing machines and they are normally expected to last 3 years.....


Still everything I posted above could be complete drivel I am not going to try and back it up with the usual "my friends a lawyer" "I work for trading standards etc etc" you just have to go and read the sale of goods act and read a few court cases that are related to it.

SRSport

This is what I believe it all comes down to and by far the biggest stumbling block for consumers and the get out clause for retailers. However unless there is easy access to the unit (whatever it may be) then it is fairly clear that there was a part that was faulty from the start, something not capable or lasting an appropriate amount of time, i.e. up to 6 years.

Now it gets tricky and the grey areas start to emerge when you may be asked to prove that it hasn't been misused, for example your 3 year old hasn't pressed the on/off switch 50 times in quick succession. It may come down to a technicians report/independent inspection which may not be cost effective but then again may be, depending on the item in question. If the technicians report comes back with no sign of abuse then the retailer is legally obliged to repair or replace the item without issue.

Again if they refuse they are acting unlawfully and may find that the consumer not only takes them to court for the replacement item but also for any legal expenses as well as their time and inconvenience.

It comes down to how much time and effort the consumer is willing to put into this, which is why I would imagine many sales assistance are told to say "sorry, can't help you", knowing full well that management will hear about it soon after and before it goes too far.


I'll add again that I am not a legal professional so pleas dont read this and use it as reference, it is just my interpretation of the SOGA to which I have put to good use in the past in getting a brand new washing machine from B&Q "out of warranty" and a new wheel from Ford which was "sorry, just one of those things".

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

SRS, just out of curiosity what was the problem with your washing machine and how did you go about the whole 'claim' as it looks like this is going to my next battle, however, this one could prove far more complicated. PM me if you would rather.

Jamz3k

I think Scooby Soon! has pretty much summed up the reality of retail without having to quote snippets of the Sales Of Goods Act.

What you have written is exactly how we follow it at my work too.

SRSport

Thats fine. I cant remember the exact details now as it was a while ago but,

The dishwasher stopped working.
Went to B&Q, spoke to a sales assistant who gave me a number for the manufacturers tech support.
Asked to speak to the manager who wasnt in.
Went home but didnt phone anyone yet.
Went to B&Q spoke to the sales assistant and asked to see the manager. The kitchens manager came down and echoed "sorry nout we can do, thats just one of those things".
I asked to speak to the store manager.
He was far more sympathetic but said the same.
At this point I used the "I am a loyal customer" etc and "can I have a contribution, good will gesture" as I was happy to except around 50% towards a new one at this stage?
The answer was simply "no".
I then mentioned the SOGA.
He said that he was familiar with this but it needs to be taken up with the manufacturer (incorrectly) NOT with them.
At this point I got a diagnostic done by the manufacturer at a cost of £50 call out. If it wasn't something expensive I would have just got them to do it there and then but it was a burnt out motor.
Went back to B&Q and told them that as it was the retailers responsibility I thought I would show them the report. I didnt mention that they were wrong as I was trying to maintain pleasantries for as long as possible. I then casually got asked questions like "I must be very hospitable...do I do a lot of cooking for people...I must have been using it non stop", etc. For me this was a sign that it was going my way.
I replied, "just the usual use".
"How often is that"
"oh you know, once every couple of days".
"Sorry to hear that but its the manufacturers responsibility not ours".
I then said that unfortunately this was not the case, the part was original and has not lasted a reasonable length of time, to which he then said that he needed to check it out.
He came back 10 minutes later maintaining that it isnt their responsibility but as a token of good will they will give me a replacement dishwasher free of charge and this was far more than they were obliged to do and it was just good customer service, etc etc etc.

I have to admit I didnt expect it to go as well as it did and am very impressed with their compliance. I was fortunate that I did not need to pursue the issue through the courts, but as I have said, I don't expect to have to. I also got the £50 refunded from the manufacturer. Not quite sure why, as I didnt ask for it back but they just put it back in to my account.