MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

I'm not saying buy a standard classic and throw 8K at it as I know from experience that doesn't get you much.
Buy one at £8K / £10K that has already been seen too. £8000 buys you one hell of a classic now.
Porsche brakes, AST's, Motec, caged, 400+bhp etc etc in mine and would come for alot less than 8K. Not that I'll ever sell it though, it's too much fun........!

mantazini

iTrader: (25)

I know where you both comming from.... After this snetterton and my RAW love for a classic impreza, i have to admint that new technology makes a difference. Budgies car, Mels spec c , amazing tools, i don't realy remember any classic giving them a hard time... . But anyways , like i said . Its all about your point of view, you want to be competitive, numero uno , or you want to enjoy your time on track, which makes a well sorted classic a better car in this case. Woodies on here twin scroll 350/350 non lag V3 STI classic was the best one i took for a spin, and boy, that sh*** is moving. On the B Roads you'll be all wooped . ...

MadUsa1

Yeah had a look at that, impressive spec. Two questions:

Is there a large increase in lag with the larger turbo?

How is the top end? Is it still quite linear like the standard set up or does it run out of puff at 6.5k?

Re brakes, what about the 6 pot brembos from the rar?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I think the thing people forget is that they are completely different cars with the same badge.

It really does depend what you want from the car.

Newage is a faster car.

Classic is flawed, which makes it more fun.

Most people get it the wrong way round, me included, in thinking the classic is a "true drivers car" it's not, it's a fun car.

Newage is a far superior tool when it comes to maximum attack mode, and it's taken me coming full circle to realise that, having had a blob first, then a v3 type r, and now back in a blob.

apac

iTrader: (2)

book marked for later reading

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

The newage is the far superior handling and better car. If I had my power in a classic shape car it would be mental instead of mental The only reason you would want a big power car in an early shell is cause you want a 9 second car or less due to weight.

chris cairns

The newage is a better car but I wouldn't say it handles better

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

But the thing is, by the time you put all the transmission and a 500 point cage in a classic to make it stiffer i doubt there is more than 50kg in it, and most people that can afford to do it are fat and old so after gut weight and reaction time it's probably much of a muchness.

Think i'll make a 9 second newage

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Im not fat

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

What makes a newage handle better than a classic then ???

Ditch, even with a cage, 6 speeder and all the other gubbins a newage is still an awful lot heavier.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Stiffer shell, better suspension etc, and if you want a good comparison, a Type R is 1270kg, a MY03 Spec C 16 inch motorsport version is 1310kg, and that is a quicker car with the same BHP output.

Tony

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

That's hardly a fair comparison Tony. The spec C you mention is a special lightweight edition.

Compare an RA against it, the classic being 1160KG and spec C 1310KG. That's quite a bit more don't you think ??
Then compare a classic STI against a newage STI, I don't need to tell you how much heavier the newer car is. Even add in a cage, strut braces and a 6 speed to the equation and a classic will be stiffer than the newage and still alot lighter.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Its the closest comparison between 2 cars with a similar setup, ie both have subaru 4 pot front brakes and 2 pot subaru rears, the spec c mentioned also does not have the oil coolers, something a type r does not have, but if you want to add the weight to a type R then go ahead, thats a bigger clutch and 30kg more for the gearbox straight off, see the picture why I used the 16 inch version?

You are also comparing a very old MY93/94 RA there, see the difference around the ring between a fat spec c and that light RA, over 30 seconds between them (thats the fat Spec c 30 seconds in front btw )


Tony

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Tony the Spec C Motorsport does have a transmission oil cooler for the record.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I will also add that a classic is no where near (has) as stiff a shell, even adding all the strut braces, seam welding, cage etc, thats all added weight over the new age, a classic is no where near as stiff and would weigh more if you did try to make it as stiff or stiffer than a new age shell, and weight, dont be fooled, there is more to just weight, you forget the likes of the CD factor, a classic has a higher CD factor which means more drag, drag = power loss and basically you lose the power to weight factor.

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Shhh, thats weight you would have to add to a classic so I left it out

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I should say that I am waiting on Matty to come out with the fact why most people buy classics for 1/4 mile cars, track cars etc

Tony

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

andy f, steven darley , scooby clinic cars to name a few all classic,s are they better sorted newage cars better for track out there ??

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

No (but there are better sorted new age cars out there ), but they are a damned sight cheaper (classics) hence why most people buy them for said use, consider the cost of a hawk STI, 8-9k, you can pick up a classic for 1k and strip it, quite a big saving.
Note more entries to the likes of time attack etc are new age cars, most of the yanks use new age cars also.
But for budget builds, a classic is much cheaper to obtain.

Tony

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

It's an argument that nobody will ever win, some of us prefer a classic and some prefer a newage, so what.

I will stand by what I said though. For the price of a standard spec C you can buy a very well sorted classic which WILL be a far better A 2 B tool. And that is fact Tony..... No standard spec C driven by an average man would keep with my classic on the road or track, (until my 5 speed ***** itself anyway, lol).

Standard vs standard then ofcourse the newage car is the better, but it's not fair to compare a 10K car against a 3K car. Put a 10K spec C against a 10K classic STI and see which one comes out on top (in any test).
Don't get me wrong, the spec C is a wonderful car and one day I shall give up the classic and get one (or an S202).

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

Simples here really,as Tony is saying straight out of the box a spec c is an awesome car and is by far a superior car to a classic in all aspects BUT if you compare it with like for like in money terms as Matty says a 10k classic will quite simply leave a spec c in it's wake.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

There was a 10k classic v a 10k Spec C test (well the Spec C wasnt 10k but the spec is the same, just a few more miles on the clock) and look, the Spec C left the P1 for dust (its that litchfields type 25 v wr1 v Spec C v P1), and can you really call a 10 year older car competition? 10k, thats 2k for the car, then a brand new gearbox at 6k, new brakes at 2k, new clutch at 800 quid, oh just wait, forgot you want to add old bits dont you
So lets see, 2k classic that needs 2k's worth of work to start with, 4k gone, fit a new age STI bottom end, which may just blow up, you never know , see its just really getting expensive here

Now lets be serious, a good classic none STI will set you back 3.5k, to forge the engine you need another 3k, that will put it up to around 400bhp standard, then you need a gearbox, 6 speed is 2.5k with rear diff, 9k so far? and we have not even added the new turbo, injectors, brakes, clutch etc, you are not even getting there really, and then you need the new suspension, better ecu, bigger wheels, new exhaust, you are well over 10k, you are comparing cars that are totally different, and you can throw all that at a classic and its still not as good as a new age STI, plus its a damned sight older and more prone to parts failing.

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Im laughing here, Sorry Matty but thats total BS, just put my car in the hands of someone like Johnfelstead and you are dust, he use to to that to turbo's in a Sport and sorry to say, your car isnt a match for a spec c, not even after you shove 20k at it, totally different league, and what is best? thats been proven time and time again, and its not a classic, no matter how much you look at it and how much you can throw at it, the new age is a far better car to start with, and unless you add an extra 200kg to stop the flex in a classic (and even then you will have issues), you are on a losing streak.

I've owned scoobs since 2000, ive owned 2 classics (one from new) and 2 spec c's (one from new), its chalk and cheese, hence why the new age cars were such an improvement over the classics, subaru listened and developed the car.

Tony

PS and are you trying to compare a modded classic to a standard Spec C?

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Tony is just jealous Matty, he knows a well sorted classic will dust the new age cars

TX.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You should have seen Lee's (Toffee) Spec C, dont think he would even be in the rear view mirror of that one its a little more well sorted than Matty's should we say Probably twice the BHP

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

I think you are missing my point here Tony.
The OP wants to buy a new car and asked about a Spec C. With this in mind he obviously has a few quid to spend.
For what a Spec C is going to cost him he could buy a classic that HAS ALREADY been modified and probably still have change left over.
A quick glance in our for sale section and saw this...

https://www.scoobynet.com/subaru-444...460-500-a.html

Would this not be a match for a similar priced Spec C then ???

I'm talking about money here and what you can get for that money. I really don't buy into your belief that a standard spec C is a better car than a similar priced classic (in today's market).

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Not really Matty, but then again YOU are missing the point here, if you start with something superior to start with, you end up with a better end result, the flaws the classics had are still there, that type R now no longer has DCCD to start with, it has an open front diff (like yours), mine doesnt (AP Suretrac), its all the small things (engine and transmission oil coolers), that you miss out, your suspension for instance, when was it last serviced? (you do know you need it servicing dont you?) my out of the box ones dont, and they are pretty good, if I upgraded then I would be going for some really good road ones (not your cheap BC crap), and I would cost in for each one being serviced every couple of years (which they require).

Also Matty, you just dont understand what the car gives you, hence why you say a similar priced classic is better than a similar Spec C, its not, its still leagues apart, even the new age MY05 cars (especially the JDM ones which are virtually identical minus a couple of bits) to the Spec C's, throw as much cash as you want at a car, 50k+ but then you would have been better off buying a Porsche 997 turbo and 500bhp....

Tony

johnfelstead

You are both wrong, the MY05 JDM STi is the better car all round.

It really is quite amusing how this argument keeps popping up, why doesn't the OP just go and try a few cars out, they will soon find out what floats their boat.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

For starters I don't use BC's, I have AST's coupled with every whiteline goodie available. Couple that to a handful of polybushes, front and rear strut braces, a 6 point cage and decent tyres and my car seems to handle pretty well.
And yes Tony, I do realize they need servicing you sarcastic sod.

Ok, I shall admit defeat. A 450bhp monster classic is by far a lesser tool than a spec C or any other newage STI.
I will just say that I had a 2005 JDM STI through my hands last year, 340bhp and with Tein super streets fitted. I didn't rate that at all proven by the fact I jumped in my classic for the twisty B roads home.
Maybe one day you and I could meet up at the pod and battle it out on the strip, at least it would be more fun than tapping away at a bloody screen, lol.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

I think the thing is that a classic does not feel as planted as a newage car, having driven a classic STi RA against my S202 and my Spec C I found that the classic was more skittish and easily capable of being put sideways.

I tried the same in my S202 and Spec C and they just gripped whereas I had more fun in the classic but in terms of control the newage models were streets ahead, all were standard at the time.