Type r/p1 vs jdm sti/spec c
06 March 2012, 08:46 AM
#91
lol i'm sure it was set up properly with that sort of power.
I love my type r but no matter how much i love it there is no getting away from the fact that a newage is 120% stiffer, how the hell you go about getting the classic chassis that much stiffer i have no idea, but i do know that i can feel the difference, with most of the whiteline catalogue and a cage on the type r the blob still feels more plantad and its standard at the moment
At the end of the day it really does depend what the car is for and what your preferences are for that particular purpose.
I bought my type r as a toy, track days hill climbs, sprints and weekend blasts, the blob wagon is a practical quick road car for everyday living, which ticks more of my lifestyle requirement boxes than anything else out there and is very affordable and i won't have to worry where i park it, because its only a 4k motor.
But if i were in the market i would definately get the spec c and mod it a bit,just in case a hot classic showed up in my rear view, i'd like to make sure it stays there
I love my type r but no matter how much i love it there is no getting away from the fact that a newage is 120% stiffer, how the hell you go about getting the classic chassis that much stiffer i have no idea, but i do know that i can feel the difference, with most of the whiteline catalogue and a cage on the type r the blob still feels more plantad and its standard at the moment
At the end of the day it really does depend what the car is for and what your preferences are for that particular purpose.
I bought my type r as a toy, track days hill climbs, sprints and weekend blasts, the blob wagon is a practical quick road car for everyday living, which ticks more of my lifestyle requirement boxes than anything else out there and is very affordable and i won't have to worry where i park it, because its only a 4k motor.
But if i were in the market i would definately get the spec c and mod it a bit,just in case a hot classic showed up in my rear view, i'd like to make sure it stays there
06 March 2012, 08:56 AM
#92
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Tony why change from a VF28 to the MD109? turbo when the VF28 "should" make 320bhp, especially with the FMIC. It's no wonder your Type r doesent feel as quick as your Spec C. My Version 5 type R is running at round 320-330, and is massively different to what it was with just a cat back exhaust.
06 March 2012, 11:13 AM
#93
Tony why change from a VF28 to the MD109? turbo when the VF28 "should" make 320bhp, especially with the FMIC. It's no wonder your Type r doesent feel as quick as your Spec C. My Version 5 type R is running at round 320-330, and is massively different to what it was with just a cat back exhaust.
06 March 2012, 01:07 PM
#97
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If it's been modified from standard it's a useless comparison imo.
If we compared my JDM STI against Tony's SPEC C, mine would leave his for dust around a track.
If we compared my JDM STI against Tony's SPEC C, mine would leave his for dust around a track.
06 March 2012, 01:10 PM
#98
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Have been reading this thread with interest.
There was a simmilar debate on the MLR in regards to the early evos (1-4) and the later evos (5-10)
The early evos are awesome cars (Ive had one) but the truth of the matter is the later evos are a better car all round. Yes they are bigger and heavier but they are stronger and better out of the box.
If money was no object we would all have a newer impreza, fact !
(Btw spec C FTW
)
There was a simmilar debate on the MLR in regards to the early evos (1-4) and the later evos (5-10)
The early evos are awesome cars (Ive had one) but the truth of the matter is the later evos are a better car all round. Yes they are bigger and heavier but they are stronger and better out of the box.
If money was no object we would all have a newer impreza, fact !
(Btw spec C FTW
)
06 March 2012, 01:35 PM
#99
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Have been reading this thread with interest.
There was a simmilar debate on the MLR in regards to the early evos (1-4) and the later evos (5-10)
The early evos are awesome cars (Ive had one) but the truth of the matter is the later evos are a better car all round. Yes they are bigger and heavier but they are stronger and better out of the box.
If money was no object we would all have a newer impreza, fact !
(Btw spec C FTW)
There was a simmilar debate on the MLR in regards to the early evos (1-4) and the later evos (5-10)
The early evos are awesome cars (Ive had one) but the truth of the matter is the later evos are a better car all round. Yes they are bigger and heavier but they are stronger and better out of the box.
If money was no object we would all have a newer impreza, fact !
(Btw spec C FTW
)The V3 STI Type R is one of the best STI out of the box (as said by one of the STI engineers in Japan) and apparently Tsuchiya San (the Japanese drift fella) confirms it (in one of those BestMotoring videos) by saying that it's proper good fun those things.
06 March 2012, 01:56 PM
#100
lol i'm sure it was set up properly with that sort of power.
I love my type r but no matter how much i love it there is no getting away from the fact that a newage is 120% stiffer, how the hell you go about getting the classic chassis that much stiffer i have no idea, but i do know that i can feel the difference, with most of the whiteline catalogue and a cage on the type r the blob still feels more plantad and its standard at the moment
D
I love my type r but no matter how much i love it there is no getting away from the fact that a newage is 120% stiffer, how the hell you go about getting the classic chassis that much stiffer i have no idea, but i do know that i can feel the difference, with most of the whiteline catalogue and a cage on the type r the blob still feels more plantad and its standard at the moment
D
Things like cages, front and rear strut braces increase the torsional stiffness of a car dramatically, wheather or not by 120% I dont know but the difference will be so small us mere mortals will never see the difference.
For instance, jack up a standard classic near the front wheel and watch that wheel rise while the rear wheel on the same side remains on the ground.
On my car with its cage and braces even the slightest movement upward near the front wheel raises the rear. So my cars torsional stiffness has been increased dramatically, maybe not quite to the extent of a newage but more than enough. Enough for any average driver not to notice anyway.
06 March 2012, 02:06 PM
#101
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if money were no object, i would drive a V3 Type R FACT !
The V3 STI Type R is one of the best STI out of the box (as said by one of the STI engineers in Japan) and apparently Tsuchiya San (the Japanese drift fella) confirms it (in one of those BestMotoring videos) by saying that it's proper good fun those things.
The V3 STI Type R is one of the best STI out of the box (as said by one of the STI engineers in Japan) and apparently Tsuchiya San (the Japanese drift fella) confirms it (in one of those BestMotoring videos) by saying that it's proper good fun those things.
What was the last sti model the engineer you mention drove? What was he comparing the Ver3 to? (I agree the ver3 is a great car btw)
06 March 2012, 02:23 PM
#102
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the engineer was merely making comparison to the other 9 sti models made.
would i leave it standard, yes- for the road, no- for the track
craig
Last edited by craigo; 06 March 2012 at 03:19 PM.
06 March 2012, 03:05 PM
#103
it was running the suspension removed from the gobstopper in its early days, so doubt that very much. the type 25 on the normal road was far more planted where the sti 5 was twitchy on anything other than a track.
06 March 2012, 03:08 PM
#104
Have been reading this thread with interest.
There was a simmilar debate on the MLR in regards to the early evos (1-4) and the later evos (5-10)
The early evos are awesome cars (Ive had one) but the truth of the matter is the later evos are a better car all round. Yes they are bigger and heavier but they are stronger and better out of the box.
If money was no object we would all have a newer impreza, fact !
(Btw spec C FTW)
There was a simmilar debate on the MLR in regards to the early evos (1-4) and the later evos (5-10)
The early evos are awesome cars (Ive had one) but the truth of the matter is the later evos are a better car all round. Yes they are bigger and heavier but they are stronger and better out of the box.
If money was no object we would all have a newer impreza, fact !
(Btw spec C FTW
)Don't suppose you have a link to that Evo thread do you buddy. Bet that is an interesting read also and having owned a few I'd like to read it.
Even with the Evo's I found the early cars more fun. I had a 1 and then a 3 which were both un-modified and great fun to drive. I then had an evo 6 TM through my hands and like the newage Impreza I didn't rate it as high as the early cars. Don't get me wrong it was still a great car but just felt too easy. It went fast without trying and just didn't make my adrenaline pump like the older cars do. I would even say you could put a very average driver in a newer model evo and they could drive it very fast without too much of a problem.
With the older cars you really have to drive it, put an average driver in one and ask them to go quickly and I'm sure there would be a phone call to the insurance.
Maybe that's why Tony rates his Spec C so highly. In reality he's just a very average driver who lacks the skill to drive a classic quickly whereas a newage masks that fact and makes him look and feel like a decent driver...
06 March 2012, 03:09 PM
#105
The only newage turbo Impreza I have driven was a 2005 JDM STI with a few little extras, including some Tein super streets. I can honestly say that my classic with its current setup is a far superior car through the bends, at any speed.
I'm not sure if the spec C or other special edition newages use a better setup than the newage car I used but that was my own experience.
I'm not sure if the spec C or other special edition newages use a better setup than the newage car I used but that was my own experience.
i see what you are saying take the value of a good spec but a well sorted classic for sub 10k (forges, 6 speed, suspesion etc all done) then with the remaining cash make it even better / faster and i am sure you will have a car that will out do in certain terms the relatively standard spec c but again that is not comparing like for like
06 March 2012, 03:17 PM
#107
but pal you are not comparing like for like a jdm sti with mid 300's and your car which has had 1000's chucked on it. this is what tony is trying to get across, which i think you are missing.
i see what you are saying take the value of a good spec but a well sorted classic for sub 10k (forges, 6 speed, suspesion etc all done) then with the remaining cash make it even better / faster and i am sure you will have a car that will out do in certain terms the relatively standard spec c but again that is not comparing like for like
i see what you are saying take the value of a good spec but a well sorted classic for sub 10k (forges, 6 speed, suspesion etc all done) then with the remaining cash make it even better / faster and i am sure you will have a car that will out do in certain terms the relatively standard spec c but again that is not comparing like for like
The OP asked for fun, a highly modified classic offers more fun than a newage of the same value. If money was no object then yes, get a tuned up top of the range spec C and wipe the floor with everything, but money is an object and all of us only have a certain amount.
06 March 2012, 07:48 PM
#110
They are not doing a new one because the first gobstopper stopped being competitive though.
06 March 2012, 08:09 PM
#114
I once asked rcm which they thought makes the better base for a track car. Ollie reckoned the new age makes a better starting point for most people because of the stiffer shell, stronger gearbox and diffs, brembos, etc. he did say the classic would make the most off of power upgrades because of its light weight though.
06 March 2012, 09:51 PM
#115
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I could say that you needed to buy an improved car because due to your bad driving you kept crashing your other ones but you also have to remember that you dont need all the bells and whistles to have fun, quite a few hot hatches from the 80's made (and still do) for a great all round car As for the RCM Gobstopper, well you could say you start cheap and then your next one is an improvement over the first, then you improve the next one after that
or it may just be that a race prepped shell came up and it was easier to use that, you would have to speak with RCM, though note even subaru's latest cars are quicker than their previous incantations (this includes the handling, none of this straight line ***** driving 
)Tony
06 March 2012, 09:53 PM
#116
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Tony why change from a VF28 to the MD109? turbo when the VF28 "should" make 320bhp, especially with the FMIC. It's no wonder your Type r doesent feel as quick as your Spec C. My Version 5 type R is running at round 320-330, and is massively different to what it was with just a cat back exhaust.
I would go back to a vf28 or even a VF34, see what comes up if I decide to keep the car
Tony
06 March 2012, 09:59 PM
#119
This is a great thread and makes a change to the usual garbage that turns into a 10 page slagging match, But then again theres still another 6 pages to go so it could all go very wrong yet
Out of interest was there ever an official time set by subaru in a classic, Type R, P1 etc, Around the nurburgring
Out of interest was there ever an official time set by subaru in a classic, Type R, P1 etc, Around the nurburgring
Last edited by The Pink Ninja; 06 March 2012 at 10:00 PM.
06 March 2012, 10:11 PM
#120
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It came with the car, not something I would have done tbh, its too laggy but as I mentioned before, this is the sort of thing that use to go on in the late 90's and early 00's, and the MD109 is an old turbo now compared to what is available on the market.
I would go back to a vf28 or even a VF34, see what comes up if I decide to keep the car
Tony
I would go back to a vf28 or even a VF34, see what comes up if I decide to keep the car
Tony