dean_1991

iTrader: (1)

na its cool, need4speeduk... im still learning about subaru but have learned alot since owning my first subaru. i have learned alot of this site and still learning.. thats why i want your lot advice on the way to go so i dont do it wrong, i will sell this odb and buy a cdb and get it forged ect what bph could i be expecting many thanks again

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

I'm not sure I agree with buying a newage instead but it's definitely cheaper to buy one that's already been done! Mine owes me a fair few quid now but it was also fun building it

It's money I won't see back but it's the sense of achievement when I first heard it run and saw it produce 420bhp on he rollers that made it worthwhile and I really really enjoy driving the car knowing I bought it as a standard car.

Sprint Chief

Bottom end failure has nothing to do with open deck / closed deck. An open deck just allows for more movement at the top of the bores increasing risk of flexing and wear of the bores and head gasket problems.

To be honest, there are loads of open deck blocks running 400bhp with no problems whatsoever. Unless you are running 500+ just don't worry about it.

Big end failure is caused by either loss of oil pressure at the big ends or running on the limit of high boost and det for long periods.

You really need to decide how reliable you want the car, whether 400bhp is an end point to modding or a starting point. 400bhp can be done with OEM components (MY03-MY07 STi rods, MY97/MY98 STi pistons and open deck would be fine), but I wouldn't run any more than that without a proper aftermarket forged build. If you think you might want more later, best to make it strong now.

As for gearboxes, some 5 speeds can cope with 400bhp but only a few (not all 5 speeds are created equal). A TY754VB1CA should cope with that sort of power, and in fact a slightly laggy turbo can help reduce the stress. It has DCCD but make sure you get the matching rear diff (the final drives will not match otherwise). A good second hand one would be around £750. If you're planning on running more than this or if you want to launch hard etc., then best go 6 speed. Without DCCD 6 speeds are getting more affordable now with many places offering drive-in drive-out services around £2000, less if you fit it yourself.

Are your injectors phase 2 440s? If so just get lateral to modify them for a fraction of the price.

There are plenty of different ways to reach 400bhp in a classic, and it can be done on a reasonable budget despite the claims of the naysayers. However, if you want to go further than 400bhp in the future best future proof it now. Also, the more you spend, ultimately the more reliable the car should be, but bear in mind you can spend as much as you want, any little mistake made on the way will render that expenditure moot...

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

"400bph"

400 beats per hour? That's one chilled out resting athlete! Or someone about to die.

MartynJ

Over years of building Subaru engines, I can state categorically that whether it lasts or not has far more to do with HOW it's built, rather than which block you build it in.
We have customers running around with in excess of 500bhp on their 3 year old ODB strokers without any issues. Correct machining and build processes are the key to getting it right first time.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Build it right, build it once as they say.

Fat Boy

Block would be fine, crank would be fine (ignore Tony's comment) but internals would let you down. Better pistons mainly required but also rods while you're doing the pistons.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

So you would put an old crank back in the car?

Whilst its out you replace it, you want to do a decent job then change the crank, they are not expensive and it saves you the hassle of having to take the engine apart if there was an issue with it later, fitting a new crank (especially a cross drilled one) means that you also obtain better oil flow to the main bearings, if you wish to ignore these facts then go ahead, but if you would put the original crank back in fat boy then you could well be asking for trouble.

Tony

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

dude a cdb is nto need for 400hp but if i was you id find me a semi deck block from the new age motors and i here you when you say you like the classic, yeah you have to spend more money to do them but dam its a classic and they look sweat and are a real drivers car even more so when you put some good power through , but as some did say above you could pick up a well sorted classic with a good buil list from the right garages for around 6-7 k with a six sped and all the works dam you can by ine if you like : >

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

ive been running 390hp in my odb for some years now but i would want to take it much past 430hp , its not the block what cause bottom end problems, and odb under mental boost like 1.8 bar plus with a good 450-500hp can cause the piston liners to warp and in turn cause all sort of issues

dean_1991

iTrader: (1)

ok cheers i was looking at forged pistons and rods and i came across these any help would they be ok ? ebay item num : 160756654039
i will change the crank while block is open dont want to take the risk...

snake1906

iTrader: (4)

i wouldnt worry about it really i know a few running 400 on standard engines if your worried then do it rite if your not worried then take a chance it could last years,it doesnt cost much to get to 400 or close to it

dean_1991

iTrader: (1)

ok ill rather do it with forged pistons but how can you get near 400 bph with standed engine what parts are needed ?

snake1906

iTrader: (4)

turbo,induction,injectors,fuel pump,front mount advisable but not necessary


forgot to add exhaust and headers

dean_1991

iTrader: (1)

what turbo and what cc injectors are m8t

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Erm hello.

There is a cheaper route to 400, just buy a jdm sti bottom end, bigger injectors and turbo newage sti tmic or fmic and happy days, that will take 450 all day long and can be had for much less than a forged rebuild.

snake1906

iTrader: (4)

turbo sc42 would be nice injectors im using 740s at 420bhp you could maybe go 650?

snake1906

iTrader: (4)

i used a scdb from a wr1 with very low miles it lasted 3 months but as above they do run at 450 and some over that happily

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

I've told him I'm using a 2005 sti short motor but unless he changes his inlet manifold a FMIC is a must because a newage one won't fit, late classic ones only just fit but they need modifying to fit and they can knock.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

On a newage STI you can get 400 on a top mount but not an early classic!

snake1906

iTrader: (4)

sorry didnt note which car he had? sti top mount will do it but new age would be better front mount would be better again

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

That's right and it's a shame you can't fit them to version 1 & 2 cars due to the shape of the inlet manifold

dean_1991

iTrader: (1)

wow theres so many ways to get to 400bph lol, ive got a fmic that im keeping and going to use.... well im going to stick my car in the project section keep an eye out. cheers for all comments most helpful.. just looking and searching round now for goodies...

need4speeduk

iTrader: (26)

Do some research. Have a look at classics running the sort of power you're aiming at and see what it's taken them to get there. What turbos, what injectors etc etc.

Everyone's opinions are just that, opinions. Each will have their own thoughts and views.

Research it for yourself and find out what suits your needs. Otherwise just give Tom dick or Harry a wedge of cash and just say "this is what I want, build it for me".

You seem to have come up with a figure (400bhp) and don't have a clue what's needed to achieve it.

Education is key so again, do some research. Have you driven a 400hp classic? Why do you want 400 and not 350 or 450? What are you going to do once you have 400? Will you get bored of it and want more or is that the be all and end all only goal?

Fat Boy

The OP is quite clearly on a budget so, if the crank was ok on inspection, then that power level would be ok on a standard crank. Not saying I'd do it myself, just answering the question asked

FWIW - to the OP - my open deck block (with forged everything else by RCM ) handled 450bhp and near on 400ftlb for 18K miles at up to 2 bar, but eventually the head gasket went - probably due to bore shuffle.

dean_1991

iTrader: (1)

yer being doing lot of research and im looking for around 400bph, 450bph plus i wont be able to afford petrol every day lol

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

BHP

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Listen to Sprint Chief, good advice there

If the crank is good then reuse it, source newage sti rods, Classic STI v3-6 forged pistons, order the correct thickness OEM head gasket depending on pistons/heads. If the injectors are phase 2 then get them modified at Lateral. Fit the FMIC, full decat, tubular headers and a remap. For 400HP you will need a bigger MAF and an Apexi PFC or use an ECU that can run MAFless. Discuss this with your mapper.

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Don't forget heads for that sort of power on a version 1 & 2.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Why 400+ ???

If I knew what I know now I wouldn't of gone past 350. My car is obviously quicker now but no more fun. A light classic at circa 350 is awesome fun...

Don't chase a figure, chase an overall package that you love driving.