I completely agree, but as for budgets...it costs what it costs.

The problem if I were to pin it down is the 'communities' access to these used boxes at a price that makes them worthwhile in comparison to a six speed. It's all very well Harvey, other specialists or hands on enthusiast running one at 400/400 but the likelihood of Joe Bloggs sourcing one at a comparable cost to do the same is questionable IMHO. Even if they were £500, you've only got to kill one and have to buy another, with fitting and faff you're 6 speed territory.

I'd rather take a punt on a Newage 6Speed than a much older cheaper 5speed purely because it's been seen to be able to take a power level.

It's a worthy discussion granted, I just prefer the 6speed

 

With slightly less respect people cut their cloth accordingly If you can only stretch to a 5 speed then that's what you must do. Personally I would never be happy with that whether I could afford it or not. I fitted a cheap 5 speed to my wagon to get moving again but all the time looking for another 6 speed

So what do these stronger 5 speeds go for then and how available are they ?

 

i understand where you are coming from,the six speed is a better box,if my 5 speed broke,i would probably replace it with a six speed(possibly) if funds allowed at the time,also depending what replacement 5 speeds were also available at that particular time and cost,im just pointing out the fact that many may not be able to affoerd a six speed,or 3 cars.if they break a 5 speed box then they shouldnt be tuning the car without knowing the possibilities of broken box.if mine broke and funds didnt allow for a six speed then i would probably look around for a low mileage p1 box or similar to replace it with and can be had for under £500.

 

 

Hehe. I KNEW you'd be hot on my heels.

 

lol

I didn't think you saw it, so deleted and moved it to the bottom.

But evidently you did.

 

just a little reminder about how nice your car will be with the sc turbo etc.

 

still the prodrive question remains unanswered. did they need to use a 5 speed ?

 

I'm gonna take a guess and say that the pre-MY93-96 "Gp.A" rules prob allowed them to replace the OEM gearsets/ratios with much stronger items?????? Bound to be straight-cut with dogs, too. I'm sure it would have been a 5-sp though, as their 6-sp hadn't been invented then. Plus the homologation rules rules would dictate that anyway.

By MY97, when the rules were relaxed to "WRC" status, then they had a hell of a lot more freedom. Indeed Prodrive invented their sequential (6 or 7sp?) in the end...

 

OK, once more, it isn't about "not being able to afford it", it is about where the money is best spent to get the fastest car. These are different concepts I think

When you start modding a car, you should always factor in contingency anyway for unexpected snags. The gearbox just forms part of that. And with the right choice of gearbox, I think the likelihood of failure is small. Larger than that of a 6 speed, but still far less likely than not. *If* the right box is chosen.

No shortage of classics being broken for parts. Sadly I think there is sometimes more money in breaking a 99/00 STi than selling it as a going concern I've seen several being broken for parts even though there is nothing wrong with them at all (or very minor, easily repairable scrapes).

 

You didn't see my answer to 53's question then?

I'll drop another link in... http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/9.html

 

Valid discussion, but you'll not convince me. 6 speed for me everytime On track and road I prefer it so far

 

i still dont get it, ???

 

Don't get what, craigo? The rally cars' gearbox situation?

 

yes, i would like something from prodrive ! we will have a definative....

 

My car has had the 2.5 for the last 70k kms and the 5 speed only let after going from a vf35 to a Vf48 and a map from jgm. That is still a good testement to the original box it had 225,000 km on it

 

what torque was that ?

 

350 lb/ft

edit: rough figure

 

what clutch? did you launch it ?

am i wrong with the idea a poorer clutch puts excessive strain on the box ?

 

Exedy Stage 1 pink box, its on its 2 nd one now. Not many launchs but I have a vid of it on track last saturday when the box broke, will I post it?

I think a better clutch would be harder on the box imo

 

no, surely a clutch de-stresses... ?

put up your vid yes...... gathering evidence of abuse or not !

 

Why do you think that?

Here is the vid, , box gives up at the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf4ageD4Ym8&sns=fb

 

looks like there were very few high revs used, gearbox destruction is down to torque.....

 

Rev limit is 7000 , most of the time changing at 6000, That has nothing to do with it.
I agree the torque probably finished it in the end

 

what gearbox was it ?
what was torque figure ?

thanks..

 

98 Sti TY752VBCAA

Torque was unknown at the time car was only mapped last thursday on the road by Jgm.I guess in was quite high to completely strip 4th gear

 

Craigo, the link I gave above has refurbished WRC gearboxes for sale. S14 is the hawkeye WRC car, S12 the blob and S8/S9 classics I think. The gearboxes for the WRC cars are full custom - they share no parts in common with the standard car, 5 speed or 6 speed. I believe they use a straight-cut dog box gearset from Hewland engineering, custom casing and a some very trick diffs. I don't know what a refurbished unit would cost, I would guess around £20k-£25k, may be a bit more, may be a bit less. I'm not sure how much extra stuff (electronics, hydraulics) is needed to run the boxes.

The group N gearboxes have to use the standard gearbox castings, so the original 5 speed/6 speed castings homologated for that model would be used in the rally cars. Once again, the gearsets are not standard and probably bespoke Hewland items. These would be cheaper than the WRC boxes, but still almost certainly more expensive than the PPG or scoobyclinic gearsets.

You can call up the place and discuss prices with them , but as a word of warning, the gearboxes would not be very nice to live with on the road! Straight cut gears put less load on the gearbox and transmit more torque to the wheels but they make one hell of a noise.

 

That trackday vid looked like a hoot, a bit damp out there though!

According to the list craigo posted (usually caveat about stuff found on the internet etc) the TY752VBCAA does *not* have the uprated gearset that was fitted to the v4 STi type R and the V5 STi models. So it isn't supposed to be one of the stronger ones. That said, again according to the internets, only 1st/2nd/3rd gears were upgraded, and you stripped 4th gear.

MartynJ's box managed 520 lb-ft before his v5 STi 4th gear broke, but then as he was drag racing it, the gearbox oil temperature may not have got as high as on a track day.

 

Just to put my stance on things. My project thread isn't completely budget driven but if finances weren't an issue then i'd have started with an EJ22T. Personally i'd be much more impressed with someone spending £4k and achieving 400BHP than someone spending £10k for 500BHP, as long as they were reliable of course.
If a £500 gearbox can do the job of a £1500 6spd then why pay the extra?, and so far i don't think anyone is saying for definate that it can.

To me a Subaru has always been about a relatively cheap car that can keep up and in some cases embarass cars of 10x the value.

 

Amen to that.

Check this out:

www.enduringsolutions.com/13Mar11.pdf

No.28, ESL Demo Wagon.

This was our shakedown for the blue ESL wagon last year. We beat everything except Dunc Cowpers TA winning F1 turbo powered Dax. Every Ferrari, TVR and Porsche, Lotus and Caterham. The car stands us in at well under 10k. Not bad for a £295 ECU.