ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Probably roll out a generic law;

Section 5

ScoobyWon't

Disorderly conduct?

Go on then, talk me through your reasoning on that.

speedking

Only if they have evidence that it was you who removed the clamp and not some superhero bypasser on his way home from saving the world.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Private parking is contract law, not criminal, therefore the police wont be interested. If you happen to sit in your car, it will be up to the clampers to take civil proceeding against you, Generally they are after a fast buck!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Well for starts you are causing harrasment and distress to the truck operator by preventing him doing his job. And "IF" Plod tell you get out and go on your way and you refuse, you are are also causing a disturbance as you aren't abiding with their requests. They don't like people not doing what they've been told, so love using it as a threat to get people to back down.

Of course plod will give you plenty of warning before using it as last resort....so its better to get them on your side rather than be obstructive towards them. Still, I'd sit in the car, lock the doors and put them on deadlock (lock with the remote)...they'd have to break in and drag me out.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

A similar thing was on watchdog recently but while the young girl was in the car engine running a van blocked her in and clamped her. Demanded X amount for the release and at the same time the tow truck was called causing X to double...

Near Argos head office here in Mk there are 2 empty buildings. Parking is all pay and display so any free space is swiftly parked in.

A few guys from Argos parked in these buildings at 8am. Returned to their cars at 5:30pm to find a clamp. When challenging it they were sent pics of their cars with a clear clamping sign... Turns out the pikies were waiting for the car park to fill and then they would put their signs up, issue tickets with pics and then remove the signs so the council / building owners were non the wiser...

ScoobyWon't

Preventing someone from doing something is obstruction. If you were in their face giving them abuse that would be harassment. Distress would be if he feared violence towards him. Sitting in your car causes neither harassment or distress.

Police are trained in car extraction, should it be needed.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

What would they get you for though, the cost of a new lock? Hardly gonna break the bank ...

TX.

Stainy

The people that regulate vehicle immobilising (doesn't have to be a clamp) are the SIA (Security Industry Authority) - the same people that regulate doorstaff at your local club. They can be complained to if there's any shark practice...don't expect much action though, they will basically licence anyone willing to pay the fee.
Anyone involved in immobilising has to be licensed by the SIA or they are committing an offence. They HAVE to produce their licence on request. First thing to do is ask to see the licence....no licence; call the police. Get your phone out early and start recording everything they say and do.

The ONLY circumstances they can immobilise is if you are outside of the terms and conditions displayed. They can and will stick to these rigidly, but if they aren't displayed, or you've been clamped whilst adhereing to the rules, you have a good case.
Take pictures of everything - where the vehicle was parked, where/how any ticket was displayed, the terms of use on the car park etc etc. Then take the case to small claims court.
There is no maximum fee that they can charge, it merely has to be 'reasonable'. In 2001 a court case held that £125 was reasonable. It's fair to assume that the figure will have risen since then and use of a recovery vehicle will increase this amount.
Be aware of the conditions, which will include :-
Not giving any 'grace' time to go and get change for a machine
Not Parking outside a defined bay (even by a few millimetres)
Not Transferring a ticket (given to you by someone leaving the car park - possibly a plant by the operator)
Not allowing disabled driver consessions - this is private land
Not displaying the ticket EXACTLY as defined (for example in a side window or on the dash board when the notice says 'On the windscreen'

They cannot damage your vehicle when applying an immobilisation device, or you have a claim against them.
Damaging the immobilisation device to remove it will get you arrested, however, removing it without damage won't (I know a bloke who lifted his own vehicle complete with clamp and gave them the clamp back, still locked, after removing the entire axle!)
Sitting in the vehicle WILL prevent it being towed and WON'T get you arrested. You're committing no offences and the police won't let them move your vehicle (you may have a LONG stand-off though).
The SIA have no guidelines about method of payment - they can ask for cash.

You've probably noticed that I've studied this one a bit. The only usual way to go is pay the fine and take it to court. However, one good tip if there are a few 'thugs' is make a note of what exactly they are doing. If they assist in the immobilisation in any way they also need to be licensed. Licences aren't cheap and there's usually only one that has one.....in these circumstances it might work to call the police and point out any unlicensed behaviour (for example parking a vehicle so you can't move yours). You'll need to be sharp and take pictures before they cotton on, but if you can prove unlicensed activity, you'll turn the tables and get one of them arrested....which may be a good bargaining tool.

Phew....that was a long one...hope it helps

Bristol98

There would be no criminal damage as you would replace their padlock that you cut off with your shiney new one. The only thing they could do would be to take you to the small claims court to get you to reimberse the difference between the cost of their padlock and yours................

Stainy

Sorry this is rubbish. You damage their padlock, you commit an offence....even if you buy them a solid gold diamond studded one as a replacement

speedking

... or you could just remove the padlock and pay the cost of that, which would be significantly cheaper than the penalty. Not logical.

ritchie21

They can ask the police to prosecute you for criminal damage. You then end up with a criminal record. Costs, fine, victim surcharge and compensation plus perhaps more depending on whether or not you have a criminal record already!

Best way is to remove the wheel with the lock intact-no damage and therefore no criminal offence.

ritchie21

Doesn't matter whether you replace it or not. Any damage you cause to someone else's property in this scenario amounts to criminal damage.

SkullFudge

Bristol 98 is correct.

Unless it's fromThe Police or Council authorised AFAIK you are fully in your right not to pay.


Examples.


Receiving parking fees for over staying certain durations.

You will receive these from the likes of:-

Mcdonalds and similar and all Motorway Services Areas and such like.



Ignore all fines. You will receive the initial fine, then between 2 & 4 reminders that threaten you with legal action.
Be brave and ignore all. They will NEVER end up in court and you wont hear from them again.



Running a company I have had many of these issues over the years and NEVER had to pay for any unless they are Police or Council related, then you have to pay as they have the court system behind them.

No others have this.

Harmz2011

iTrader: (1)

This is full of interesting information, if you have a spare hour and a half

I've seen it a few times, it's a bit much if you have a short attention span but well worth it for the info.

(John Harris - It's an illusion 2)


http://youtu.be/gAjssXbIGg0

Bristol98

Thanks Skull!

Maybe I should've clarified that it wasn't Police/Council padlocks I was talking about!

speedking

Are you saying that the CAB advice is incorrect? Please post a link to where all clamping on private land is not enforceable.

If they have removed your car and you don't pay, then what is your next step?

speedking

So I can deliberately smash a window on someone's house, and as long as I pay to have it repaired then I have not caused criminal damage

SkullFudge

All I know is that a large % of these parking related companies do not pursue with the fines they submit to people.

A friend of mine told me about this when we had a Scooby meet at Blackheath Common.

There were around 30 Scoobs and many of us hit the local Mcdonalds.
Around 20 of us received fines for staying in the car park for longer than their small print allowed (which in this case was 60 minutes)

One of the guys mentioned in the forum "don't pay the fines" and told me what I have mentioned in this thread.

None of us paid and after the 4th court action letters we heard no more.
This happened 3 years ago.


The same applies to nearly all privately owned companies.

It also applies to all motorway petrol stations that have car parks, shops, burger kings etc.

I have never paid fines and the "realistic looking" court related letters stop.


I leave it up to you.
If you want to pay, then pay.
What I say is true as I have experienced it several times now.




I'm not sure how to go about retrieving a car that has been towed away but I would put money on it there is a way it could be rectified without paying money IF the company is not employed directly by the Police or Councils.

Evo Son

Well so far my next step has taken to gather all the residents together and put in a massive complaint to the property management company now. This is all still on going. They say they cannot intervene as the contract is between the directors of the estate and the parking company. What I am pushing for now is that the directors instruct the parking company to release my car and offer for me to pay the original fee of removing the clamp. Should I pay the full amount which by now is about £800 and appeal later, I stand no chance of claiming that back or a very lengthy appeal.

speedking

Good move. The outcome will depend on what leverage the Estate Directors have over the clampers. If they pay £200 / year to employ the clampers then will get nowhere. If however they have many properties and put a lot of business their way then it could have some effect.

Would you have parking issues if there was no enforcement?

Evo Son

Might have people using the train station parking up in our estate and taking up spaces. I have asked for them to use a register of resident cars method. If car is not on the register thern they free to clamp or not as they don't live there.

I'm afriad I am going to have to pay to get the car released now whilst the battle continues. Costing me in the region of £800 now.

marcevs72

iTrader: (5)

these fines are made to look like official and legal fines but are in fact an invoice...thats why they have to take you to court to make you pay which they wont as when a judge asks why they want say £300 for an hour stay in a carpark they will look very dodgy,hence why none of these companies go to court.a judge would just say that you have to pay for the hour you stayed etc...good advice from a friend that is a magistrate in plymouth.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Good advice, private parking = no need to pay. Stand your ground!

Even council parking fines can be overcome with some work

speedking

The OP is talking about a resident's parking space, so there is no issue of non-payment for the parking. The invoice is for the service provided of clamping and removal of the vehicle. As mentioned in the links, £125 for clamp and release is deemed reasonable.

If the clamping charges are unenforceable then surely the clampers have stolen the car, in which case the police would get involved

The clampers may as well lift any vehicle from anywhere and demand money for its return. They can't do that because there is a framework that enables them to remove vehicles in certain circumstances and to be paid for providing that service. Given the correct signage, a contract with the landowner, licensed operatives etc. the clampers can legitimately demand payment. Otherwise the SIA, BPA etc. would not exist.

The licensing is to stop McDonalds having a clamp behind the counter that any untrained employee can take out and fix to someone's car in the car park.

I believe that those saying you don't have to pay are wrong in this situation.

Stainy

People are getting their wires crossed. This thread is about clamping, not paying a parking ticket.

Private companies DON'T have much legal leverage to get you to pay a fine.....but legally sticking a clamp on your car IS pretty good leverage....you need your car

ScoobyWon't

Pay them with a rubber check

SkullFudge

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/Clamping.htm

speedking

That link refers to the CAB guide (as linked in #17) and says nothing about "You don't have to pay."