jef

iTrader: (13)

you keep me safe? lol

psl whats your job exactly?

fancy answering any questions or points posted to you atall?

or are you doing a "politician" and sidestepping any issues you dont fancy confronting?

come on psl - entertain us

pslewis

Would you feel as safe in your bed tonight if you knew that the UK could not assure complete annihilation of any state which decided to attack us?

Jamescsti

Still avoiding the mans question, you make out you have an extremely important Job yet avoid giving anyone a straight answer!
Its boring.

tony de wonderful

Pete's got a pseudo-public sector job working in the arms industry.

pslewis

Well, it's as important to your safety as a Policeman stood at your front door all night armed with the most lethal weapon ever developed.

You would sleep well, wouldn't you? Even if the riots were going on all around you.

jonc

The Cold War was over decades ago, geez you do spout some bollox!

bigsinky

awwww bless. PSL is old and senile. best take his posts with a pinch of salt. nuclear scientist my ar$e.

360ste

iTrader: (1)

Okay who gave Pete his computer back.???

Dave Hedgehog

iTrader: (1)

I might do.

But then I'd want to make sure that he was being paid enough to ensure that the people applying for the job were of sufficient calibre to hold the weapon and use it responsibly, and not to be tempted to mis-use it. I'd want him to be working decent hours and shifts so that I knew he wouldn't be asleep on the job, or worried about his family life when he should be concentrating on keeping me safe. I'd also want him to have adequately trained and funded support to call upon should he need it, and sufficent otehrs on duty so that any neerdowells would know that an attempt to invade my home from the rear would be as futile as an attempt on the front door, what with it's well armed copper. I wouldn't take the custody or operation of such a weapon light heartedly, and I'd recognise that the security I wanted came at a cost and that the service I received might suffer if it tried to be done "on the cheap" or they let any old person stand in for the trained, responsible person I had stood at my door.

DYK

Are some of you not Sick of all this fighting amongst ourselves.

Public v Private sector
Police,Fire,Ambulance,Forces,NHS,Teachers blah blah..
And while all this is going on and the working people in this country is too busy comparing each others job,the politicians are still having a good wage and retiring at 55/65.

great.

Why don't you do a thread on what our fantastic politicians should be payed lewis..

Dave Hedgehog

iTrader: (1)

Precisely it's a race to the bottom, with a bunch of baying morons all cheering when "another sector" gets beaten downand has their wages and pension and terms and conditions slashed and burned.

I take particular delight in someone on a civil service pension gloating and baying for Police Pensions to be cut! Physician - heal thyself!

pslewis

As I have clearly pointed out:-

Civil Servants retire at 65 with 1/80 pension - no enhancements in the final years!

Police retire at 50 on 1/60 pension - thats enhance so that Police retire on 2/3rds Final Salary at 50 - WITH a big lump sum too ........ and that's what this is all about.

The Police need to realise that they have had it too good for too long and need a visit into the real world.

Yes, Polititians are mopping up a great Pension and don't want to adjust either - but, this thread is about the Police not MP's.

tony de wonderful

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17521020

The public sector earn on average 8.2% more per hour than the private sector, and that is before mentioning the better pensions and lower retirement ages.

It's unjust and unfair.

pslewis

I think the Public Pay versus Private Pay swings to both camps depending upon the economy.

During booms the Private Pay is far and above any Public Pay - then, in a downturn, the balance switches.

Flyinspanner

So PSL sits in a room with a big button?

Only has to wait to be told to push it?

Not very taxing, dangerous, or unpleasant conditions - prob even has a comfy chair.
No decisions for you to make.

You've developed a God complex mate.

Ease away from the button and go with the nice men in the white coats. The nurses will help you, and they'll earn every penny listening to your ravings!

jef

iTrader: (13)

does this big lump sum not affect the future pensions value?

is it not like a normal final salary pension scheme, where there is an option to collect a % of the pensions value on retirment, an thus future years the pension is accordingly less - and as such the lump sum is not + the pension but actually part of it and has no bearing on the toal value of the pension

or do the police have the option to collect a significant lump sum, plus draw an unaffected pension?

PSL if you could please clarify that exact point. without side stepping

as if it is the clear case the police are entitled to claim a significant lump sum , plus an unaffectd pension amount i would agree thats unfair.

is that the reality then PSL?

Dave Hedgehog

iTrader: (1)

I can clear that one up for you. No, it's not the reality.
http://www.metibb.co.uk/pps%20faqs.pdf
You can commute up to 25% of your pension payments into a lump sum on retirement, but there is no additional "free" lump sum.

P600wrx

iTrader: (1)

An interesting thread, my job is even more important than pslewis, it must be nice to say he keeps us safe while we sleep, do u bollox u r not standing on my door and neither is a copra with a super fantastic weapon, r u gonna stop some old lady from being beaten to death from thugs in her own home NO, ur not, I think ur just annoyed that some people earn morn than u, well I earn tens of thousands earn year for sitting at home and doing sweet FA lol, and why because my son is disabled and I have to care for him, so when ur in work next having a cack on the bog think to ur self how lucky u are to be able to wipe ur own ****, cus my son can't

jef

iTrader: (13)

thats good, it means my final salary pension scheme is actually still very good, and im not being conned out of tens of thousands of pounds in this free "extra" lump sum Petes describing.
phew, lol

but still, i now want to work for this company that provide this "extra" lump sum, sounds fantastic

pslewis

The Police get a fat lump sum WITHOUT it affecting their Pension ...... IF they wish to take an even larger lump sum, then, and only then, is their Pension reduced accordingly!

It's paid at 50 ......

jef

iTrader: (13)

let me get this right, because its fairly important to my veiw

police officers are given "free" money as a lump sum upon retirement? the level of this lump sum up to a point does not affect there overall pension value?

PSL what is the threshold value of this free money?

or at what financial point does it affect the pensions actual value?

just how big is this "fat lump sum" that all police are entitled to? this is scandelous!!! (if true)
eagerly await psl reply!!

pslewis

Whatever the Policemans Pension is to be, say, £40,000 - then the Lump Sume is 4x that = £160,000.

So, Pension is £160,000 Tax Free Lump Sum + £40,000 a year Pension.

'IF' the Policeman chooses to take a larger Lump Sum, say, £320,000 Tax Free then the £40,000 Pension will be reduced accordingly.

jef

iTrader: (13)

PSL are those figures accurate for average a police officers pension?

40k per year??

thats quite remarkable, one of the best pension pots ive ever heard of infact!!

so theres a tax free lump sum equal to 4x the highest wage that person has had in the 3 ears pre-ceding retirment?

and your point must be, where does this "free" money come from?

obviously the employee pays in a % which is topped up by the employer and this results in a set pension value. then over and above this there is a 4 x annual salary lump sum available to retireing employees? is that correct?

if so it begs the question why would anyone turn that down?

and if that is actually true, id love an explanation. and id happily agree with your opinion.

if any currently due to retire officers or even recently retired officers could validate these points, it would be much appreciated

as a private sector worker with a current running final salary pension scheme myself, and knowing how rare these currently are, id love to see evidence of this funding pot, its trustees and the company behind the investment of pension funds and there investment credentials.
so who infact do the law enforcement officers use as a pension investment team or what shceme have they joined to enjoy such massive benefits?

Dave Hedgehog

iTrader: (1)

I think that's what's pissing pslewis off.
There's no pension fund ,it's not an invested sum of money. I remember reading somewhere that if you wanted the 'Police Pension' as a private package you'd have to pay 40% of your wages into it - bu that no private institution would provide it as it would be a liability.

The pension contributions go to government. The governmen pays out pensions of retired officers.

And it's worth noting that:
1) no-one has been allowed onto the 'old' pension scheme for the last 8 years, the new scheme is much less generous. Pslewis is argueing about something THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SCRAPPED.
2) The only way it pays out at 50 is if you joined at 20 and accrue 30 years service ,no true for the majoriy of officers.

Leslie

I must say that the lump sum and the pension that has been mentioned seems way higher than one would expect, I would like to see PSL confirm whether those sums are accurate.

On another tack though, the job, like being in the Armed Services, is as advertised and if a copper has taken it on, he is entitled to what he gets at the end of his service since that is the contract between him and his employer. No good blaming him for what he retires with, if you don't like it then complain to his employer!

What actually counts of course is how he does the job, is he prepared to risk personal injury or even his life to protect the public since that is what he is paid to do? If he does all that then I don't think there is too much for the public to complain about! Certainly nothing to get jealous about anyway!

Les

pslewis

The details of what I say are all in the Public Domain for all to see ....

The original question remains .... should the Police enjoy the Terms and Conditions they have, when all around them are having to suffer adjustments and cuts?

I was 'adjusted' a good few years ago now - before the 2008 downturn - where my Pension Fund was in trouble and we had to accept some very painful adjustments .... paying 6% more and accepting less, later!

People are getting pig (forgive the pun) sick of the likes of the Police and others bleeting on about small adjustments when the private sector have swallowed their pill many years ago.

tony de wonderful

The public sector argue that private sector pay and pensions should be raised rather than theirs lowered.

pslewis

That's an admirable stance .... and I would agree with it, ordinarily - but we live in extraordinary times.

What stinks is the likes of Fred The Shred can be allowed to take an immoral amount from society/business due to his Terms and Conditions (and we could not go against them) ..... but the majority can have theirs changed.

Dave Hedgehog

iTrader: (1)

We have no contract and we are not employees. Another reason why we are a special case IMO!

We trusted the government to honour agreements made re terms and conditions. They have failed to keep those promises. That's why we're angry.

pslewis is just angry because he's angry.

pslewis

I trusted the Government too ..... Maggie Thatcher issued to me a 'Copper Bottomed' guarantee that my Pension would remain as good as it was - when we got thrown to the wolves of the Private Sector.

Blair and New Labour decided that they would walk away from that guarantee .... and I hate them for it.

My personal hatred is at odds to the fact that the Uk as a whole is far better off under a labour government than a Tory one who's sole aim is to forward the rich.