Doctors Strike in June .....
02 June 2012, 11:56 AM
#91
By the way the doctors are not going on strike.............. they have elected on some form of industrial action. Ostensibly be going into work and not doing "routine" work. All other services will run as normal.
Checking on what is happening to my patients on that day at the local infirmary it transpires that it's likely that any appointments for treatment will be now labelled as "urgent" and be carried out, same with outpatient and follow up appointments.
As I am a Dental Consultant it's a normal day for me and business as usual.
So no, it's not a strike..............
Shaun
Checking on what is happening to my patients on that day at the local infirmary it transpires that it's likely that any appointments for treatment will be now labelled as "urgent" and be carried out, same with outpatient and follow up appointments.
As I am a Dental Consultant it's a normal day for me and business as usual.
So no, it's not a strike..............
Shaun
02 June 2012, 01:39 PM
#93
Scooby Regular
Either you can't read TDW or I'm right and somebody like you will never understand what dedication really means and that's why you don't value it.
And life is not too short to live like this, life is too short NOT to have something in your life that you are passionate about. I have it and love it, I wouldn't do anything else.
Where I live it would be easy for me to go 100% private and triple my earnings for less work. But in the private sector I would just be doing straightforward boring stuff, I'd miss the blood and guts of a big busy NHS hospital.
It doesn't matter that you don't have the dedication and strength of character to do work like this because there are people like me who will do it gladly. However you will have to pay for it, either through your taxes or from your pocket if its private treatment. Either way you will not get this expertise and experience for peanuts no matter how much philosophical clap trap you come out with.
And life is not too short to live like this, life is too short NOT to have something in your life that you are passionate about. I have it and love it, I wouldn't do anything else.
Where I live it would be easy for me to go 100% private and triple my earnings for less work. But in the private sector I would just be doing straightforward boring stuff, I'd miss the blood and guts of a big busy NHS hospital.
It doesn't matter that you don't have the dedication and strength of character to do work like this because there are people like me who will do it gladly. However you will have to pay for it, either through your taxes or from your pocket if its private treatment. Either way you will not get this expertise and experience for peanuts no matter how much philosophical clap trap you come out with.
02 June 2012, 02:35 PM
#94
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not expecting it for peanuts Dingdongler, I'm asking why Doctors pay and pensions should not track the broader private sector.
FYI I am not ill from anything work related per se, but if a patient came to you with depression or stress related to his/her work would you tell him he/she was not 'dedicated' enough or 'didn't have what it takes'? Is that how you treat junior Doctors who are worn thin on nights? That is a kind of sadism.
I'm not saying I don't value thing or don't respect passion but otoh who do you think is passionate about working on rigs? Nobody is. 'Passion' is a conceit reserved for professionals.
FYI I am not ill from anything work related per se, but if a patient came to you with depression or stress related to his/her work would you tell him he/she was not 'dedicated' enough or 'didn't have what it takes'? Is that how you treat junior Doctors who are worn thin on nights? That is a kind of sadism.
I'm not saying I don't value thing or don't respect passion but otoh who do you think is passionate about working on rigs? Nobody is. 'Passion' is a conceit reserved for professionals.
02 June 2012, 05:57 PM
#95
Scooby Regular
It doesn't matter which ridiculous words you use to describe what I do ie masochism, conceit etc it is all just nonsense for you to cover your own inadequacies. You couldn't hack your own line of work and went home crying like a small girl. You lack strength of character, backbone, the rightstuff, call it what you will.
As for implying I abuse my juniors you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel making wild accusations and assumptions. My juniors are well looked after and nurtured, I work at a teaching hospital.
And finally my pay DOES track the private sector. I've had a pay freeze for three or four years. The Nhs pension returns a SURPLUS every year and was reviewed extensively four years ago and deemed to be self sustaining. There is NO black hole in it.
As for implying I abuse my juniors you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel making wild accusations and assumptions. My juniors are well looked after and nurtured, I work at a teaching hospital.
And finally my pay DOES track the private sector. I've had a pay freeze for three or four years. The Nhs pension returns a SURPLUS every year and was reviewed extensively four years ago and deemed to be self sustaining. There is NO black hole in it.
02 June 2012, 06:04 PM
#96
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
But there WILL BE a massive black hole unless more is paid in and less is paid out.
This is how my Pension went ... the model showed a future shortfall ... so, UP my contributions went by 400% AND my benefits were reduced AND paid later!!
This is how my Pension went ... the model showed a future shortfall ... so, UP my contributions went by 400% AND my benefits were reduced AND paid later!!
Last edited by pslewis; 02 June 2012 at 06:06 PM.
02 June 2012, 06:09 PM
#97
SN Fairy Godmother
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Far Far Away
Posts: 35,246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the issue is TDW you just don't know or understand the dedication involved. You don't have it and that's why you left your job as the work was as you said making you ill. My 'job' as often made me ill, threatened relationships etc but I would never leave it.
And let's not forget this is not just about GPs.
I'm a consultant in an acute speciality and am over fourty years old. On Thursday I started work at 0730hrs and finished at midnight. I could have had been called back again but luckily wasn't. I then went back to work at 0730 on Friday and worked until 1730hrs.
During my Thursday shift I dealt with everything from a gunshot wound, a lady bleeding to death from a ruptured ectopic, an emergency c section for fetal distress and much more. I didn't really get to eat properly, was dehydrated and my back and feet were in agony because we were so busy. No allocates lunch or break times.
I was the senior person of my speciality for all these cases and the buck stops with me. Many times I had to make a decision within seconds, the wrong decision and we have a dead man or a brain damaged/dead baby. As painful and stressful as it is at the time I love it and am honoured to earn a good living from what I love to do. But do I deserve to be well paid for it? Hell yes.
I'll be doing this until I'm at least 60 btw. It may all sound a bit melodramatic but myself and thousands of other senior doctors up and down the country do this sort of thing day in day out.
If you have never shown the dedication to something to keep going even when you are hungry, thirstyyour back aching, blisters on your feet (I kid you not) and your stress levels through the roof you will never understand. You'll never understand that some jobs need to be treated and rewarded differently.
And let's not forget this is not just about GPs.
I'm a consultant in an acute speciality and am over fourty years old. On Thursday I started work at 0730hrs and finished at midnight. I could have had been called back again but luckily wasn't. I then went back to work at 0730 on Friday and worked until 1730hrs.
During my Thursday shift I dealt with everything from a gunshot wound, a lady bleeding to death from a ruptured ectopic, an emergency c section for fetal distress and much more. I didn't really get to eat properly, was dehydrated and my back and feet were in agony because we were so busy. No allocates lunch or break times.
I was the senior person of my speciality for all these cases and the buck stops with me. Many times I had to make a decision within seconds, the wrong decision and we have a dead man or a brain damaged/dead baby. As painful and stressful as it is at the time I love it and am honoured to earn a good living from what I love to do. But do I deserve to be well paid for it? Hell yes.
I'll be doing this until I'm at least 60 btw. It may all sound a bit melodramatic but myself and thousands of other senior doctors up and down the country do this sort of thing day in day out.
If you have never shown the dedication to something to keep going even when you are hungry, thirstyyour back aching, blisters on your feet (I kid you not) and your stress levels through the roof you will never understand. You'll never understand that some jobs need to be treated and rewarded differently.
I couldn't do it. The last time I was at a hospital was when my Mum broke her arm. The staff were amazing. The waiting room was constantly topping up with people and always full. Some people bitching on about having to wait. The ones making the most noise, having very little wrong with them, at the end of the day and leaving, after being seen too, still bitching on. No thanks for the staff at all.
The Doctor who saw to my Mum had been on shift for well over 10 hours, he told us while he was trying to take my Mums mind of the fact he was going to have to set her arm.
In the end, my Mum had to have an operation, but that Doctor managed to make time to come and see her after the op, to see if she was ok.
I think they are worth every penny because dedication like that is a very rare commodity in this day and age.
02 June 2012, 06:20 PM
#98
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't matter which ridiculous words you use to describe what I do ie masochism, conceit etc it is all just nonsense for you to cover your own inadequacies. You couldn't hack your own line of work and went home crying like a small girl. You lack strength of character, backbone, the rightstuff, call it what you will.
As for implying I abuse my juniors you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel making wild accusations and assumptions. My juniors are well looked after and nurtured, I work at a teaching hospital.
And finally my pay DOES track the private sector. I've had a pay freeze for three or four years. The Nhs pension returns a SURPLUS every year and was reviewed extensively four years ago and deemed to be self sustaining. There is NO black hole in it.
As for implying I abuse my juniors you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel making wild accusations and assumptions. My juniors are well looked after and nurtured, I work at a teaching hospital.
And finally my pay DOES track the private sector. I've had a pay freeze for three or four years. The Nhs pension returns a SURPLUS every year and was reviewed extensively four years ago and deemed to be self sustaining. There is NO black hole in it.
Maybe you're the insecure one? Hence why you get all bent out of shape at the idea of someone not thinking you are worth what you wish they would think?
If you choose to believe I couldn't hack my line of work...if you need to believe it....it is up to you, but you have no idea what my job really involved? Is there any excuse for quitting or moving on from anything in your world? Mr 'Iron John' Dingdongler?
I find it odd you see yourself as a nurturer BTW since you appear the opposite in these posts. You obviously despise perceived weakness in yourself and I suspect others.
02 June 2012, 06:26 PM
#99
PSL, the NHS pension scheme (in it's virtual world) is about 2 billion in surplus.
It has been corrected several times, the last being 2008 which was meant to correct for the ageing population etc. Our pension contributions rose and benefits dropped, as part of the 2008 deal our pension contributions went up again in April IIRC.
Shaun
It has been corrected several times, the last being 2008 which was meant to correct for the ageing population etc. Our pension contributions rose and benefits dropped, as part of the 2008 deal our pension contributions went up again in April IIRC.
Shaun
02 June 2012, 06:30 PM
#100
PSL, the NHS pension scheme (in it's virtual world) is about 2 billion in surplus.
It has been corrected several times, the last being 2008 which was meant to correct for the ageing population etc. Our pension contributions rose and benefits dropped, as part of the 2008 deal our pension contributions went up again in April IIRC.
Shaun
It has been corrected several times, the last being 2008 which was meant to correct for the ageing population etc. Our pension contributions rose and benefits dropped, as part of the 2008 deal our pension contributions went up again in April IIRC.
Shaun
02 June 2012, 06:33 PM
#101
True, it is, in fact, non-existant. The govt take the money and splash it about on what they like.
However at the moment and for the forseable future more is going in than going out............
Shaun
However at the moment and for the forseable future more is going in than going out............
Shaun
02 June 2012, 06:35 PM
#102
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
PSL, the NHS pension scheme (in it's virtual world) is about 2 billion in surplus.
It has been corrected several times, the last being 2008 which was meant to correct for the ageing population etc. Our pension contributions rose and benefits dropped, as part of the 2008 deal our pension contributions went up again in April IIRC.
Shaun
It has been corrected several times, the last being 2008 which was meant to correct for the ageing population etc. Our pension contributions rose and benefits dropped, as part of the 2008 deal our pension contributions went up again in April IIRC.
Shaun
It's a fantastic fund to be able to pay a Tax Free Lump Sum of £194,000 AND £68,000 a year for life ....... life could mean 60 to 90 years old - that's 30 years!!! in return for maybe a 30 working/contributing career?
A simpleton can see that cannot be afforded ..... hence the reason for further adjustments.
02 June 2012, 06:46 PM
#103
no PSL, if it's in surplus then the scheme isn't generous enough...
I have to work for 40 years to get my full pension, and actually work even longer............ even then the death rate of our profession means that we die pretty early so the govt don't have to pay out for a shed load of years.
The NHS has never had a 30 years working plan for pensions, you were confusing us with teachers, police etc.
Additional corrections like paying in for longer, reduced benefit, CARE and more contributions will keep the NHS pensions viable.
Shaun
I have to work for 40 years to get my full pension, and actually work even longer............ even then the death rate of our profession means that we die pretty early so the govt don't have to pay out for a shed load of years.
The NHS has never had a 30 years working plan for pensions, you were confusing us with teachers, police etc.
Additional corrections like paying in for longer, reduced benefit, CARE and more contributions will keep the NHS pensions viable.
Shaun
02 June 2012, 06:53 PM
#105
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
I suspect that the expected life span of a Dentsit is a LOT HIGHER than that of many occupations .... mining, oil rig workers, I could go on for pages ........
The single reason that Dentists have a lowish death age is because of the higher rate of suicides within the profession.
I put the high suicide rate of Dentists down to the fact that they cannot live with themselves when they look back at all the people they have stitched-up and all those people with destroyed teeth just so that they could maintain an extremely high living standard.
The single reason that Dentists have a lowish death age is because of the higher rate of suicides within the profession.
I put the high suicide rate of Dentists down to the fact that they cannot live with themselves when they look back at all the people they have stitched-up and all those people with destroyed teeth just so that they could maintain an extremely high living standard.
02 June 2012, 06:57 PM
#106
Obviously if they did, GPs would be more inclined opt out.
In reality however, all of the GPs contribution is just so much less the govt pays today, in order to get (the next generation) to pay later.
ie (IMO)the whole system is a con.
I am sure you are clever enough to figure this out for yourself.
02 June 2012, 07:00 PM
#107
Why don't you go and top yourself mate?
02 June 2012, 07:03 PM
#108
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/cu...errerPath=home
Very caring professional......... care to comment Pete?
TDW. I have no complaints about my pension, the gripes are mainly having to work 45 or more years to get it. For the vast majority of us (apart from Mr Banks it seems) the NHS pension is much better than anything we could get privately.
Shaun
Very caring professional......... care to comment Pete?
TDW. I have no complaints about my pension, the gripes are mainly having to work 45 or more years to get it. For the vast majority of us (apart from Mr Banks it seems) the NHS pension is much better than anything we could get privately.
Shaun
02 June 2012, 07:04 PM
#109
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
02 June 2012, 07:08 PM
#110
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/cu...errerPath=home
Very caring professional......... care to comment Pete?
TDW. I have no complaints about my pension, the gripes are mainly having to work 45 or more years to get it. For the vast majority of us (apart from Mr Banks it seems) the NHS pension is much better than anything we could get privately.
Shaun
Very caring professional......... care to comment Pete?
TDW. I have no complaints about my pension, the gripes are mainly having to work 45 or more years to get it. For the vast majority of us (apart from Mr Banks it seems) the NHS pension is much better than anything we could get privately.
Shaun
She had become worried about some dental work she had carried out on her daughter Georgia despite reassurances from colleagues and family members that she had done nothing wrong.
End of, happens to people all the time ...... not sure what you see in the story which I miss?
02 June 2012, 07:29 PM
#111
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wish everyone could retire at 60. It 'seems' that this is impossible for most of the private sector and if we take that to be true and make it a premis, then it is unjust that the public sector should retire any earlier.
02 June 2012, 07:47 PM
#112
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
cster, Midlife, GPs pay their own employer's superannuation because they are self employed, so I can take the entirety of the employer's and employee's contributions and put them into a private scheme or take it as taxable income.
Last edited by john banks; 02 June 2012 at 07:53 PM.
02 June 2012, 08:03 PM
#113
I put the high suicide rate of Dentists down to the fact that they cannot live with themselves when they look back at all the people they have stitched-up and all those people with destroyed teeth just so that they could maintain an extremely high living standard.
The above Pete is what I was referring to........... didn't know of any evidence of my friend Helen "stitching people up"
Shaun
PS TDW I can't retire at 60 as I won't have nmy full pension and still have 2 years to run paying the mortgage
The above Pete is what I was referring to........... didn't know of any evidence of my friend Helen "stitching people up"
Shaun
PS TDW I can't retire at 60 as I won't have nmy full pension and still have 2 years to run paying the mortgage
02 June 2012, 08:07 PM
#114
Scooby Regular
Is that why you do what you do Dingdongler, to prove to yourself and others you have the 'rightstuff'?
Maybe you're the insecure one? Hence why you get all bent out of shape at the idea of someone not thinking you are worth what you wish they would think?
If you choose to believe I couldn't hack my line of work...if you need to believe it....it is up to you, but you have no idea what my job really involved? Is there any excuse for quitting or moving on from anything in your world? Mr 'Iron John' Dingdongler?
I find it odd you see yourself as a nurturer BTW since you appear the opposite in these posts. You obviously despise perceived weakness in yourself and I suspect others.
Maybe you're the insecure one? Hence why you get all bent out of shape at the idea of someone not thinking you are worth what you wish they would think?
If you choose to believe I couldn't hack my line of work...if you need to believe it....it is up to you, but you have no idea what my job really involved? Is there any excuse for quitting or moving on from anything in your world? Mr 'Iron John' Dingdongler?
I find it odd you see yourself as a nurturer BTW since you appear the opposite in these posts. You obviously despise perceived weakness in yourself and I suspect others.
I'm not bent out of shape at all mate, just putting you straight on a few facts after endless posts by you about public sector workers (docs included) in some way living some cushy state funded lifestyle.
And the only thing I have to prove is that the trust people put in me everyday is wellfounded and not misplaced and I do this with great pleasure.That is why I do this job, the job satisfaction is amazing.
And yes believe it or not I am the nurturing type that's why I have a teaching role. I became a consultant at 33 and the first trainees I took on are now consultants themselves very satisfying.,
I don't despise weakness in others, far from it, we are all different and we can all handle different levels of stress. I just don't understand why rather than acknowledging those that have a strength of character and backbone that you lack you berate them accuse them of being masochists, insecure or conceited.
I happily acknowledge those that do the things that I am either not capable of doing or don't have the ***** to do. But that's probably because I have insight into what it takes to do these things.
This thread has to me proved beyond all doubt that you can talk the hind legs of a donkey on the internet and have an opinion on just about everything especially other peoples worth in society. In reality though you are without substance, character or backbone.
You are all talk, and talk is cheap, endless and irrelevant.
02 June 2012, 08:09 PM
#115
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
I put the high suicide rate of Dentists down to the fact that they cannot live with themselves when they look back at all the people they have stitched-up and all those people with destroyed teeth just so that they could maintain an extremely high living standard.
The above Pete is what I was referring to........... didn't know of any evidence of my friend Helen "stitching people up"
Shaun
PS TDW I can't retire at 60 as I won't have nmy full pension and still have 2 years to run paying the mortgage
The above Pete is what I was referring to........... didn't know of any evidence of my friend Helen "stitching people up"
Shaun
PS TDW I can't retire at 60 as I won't have nmy full pension and still have 2 years to run paying the mortgage
02 June 2012, 08:40 PM
#116
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't despise weakness in others, far from it, we are all different and we can all handle different levels of stress. I just don't understand why rather than acknowledging those that have a strength of character and backbone that you lack you berate them accuse them of being masochists, insecure or conceited.
Not all the world exists as Professionals do, who occupy a position which is looked up to and respected irrespective of the person occupying it, some positions are despised in society. The only 'passion' the latter might have for their jobs is ironic.
This thread has to me proved beyond all doubt that you can talk the hind legs of a donkey on the internet and have an opinion on just about everything especially other peoples worth in society. In reality though you are without substance, character or backbone.
You are all talk, and talk is cheap, endless and irrelevant.
You are all talk, and talk is cheap, endless and irrelevant.
02 June 2012, 11:33 PM
#117
Scooby Regular
After a while I can't be bothered to even read your posts, it just becomes one load of jibber jabber after another. I wonder if even you understand or believe your own nonsense
I'm not confusing you with PSL, at least he knows he is a kn8b. You think you are an intellectual with an opinion on just about everything. You have 'slammed' doctors on many occasions actually and if you want me to I will prove it.
You once denied you were a racist until I copied and pasted your blatant racist comments (ie judging a person solely on the colour of their skin)
You are now denying something that I can also prove to be true if you so desire.
The bottom line is you can talk as much as you like on an internet forum. Endless ramblings, rants, opinions etc but a man is not judged by his words but his actions. Your words have no limits or end but your actions seem to be of little consequence.
Maybe you behave this way because by your own admission you have psychological problems ie your job left you feeling depressed (your words not mine). With depression often comes feelings of low self esteem and self worth. Perhaps you should visit your GP to see if he can help......
I'm not confusing you with PSL, at least he knows he is a kn8b. You think you are an intellectual with an opinion on just about everything. You have 'slammed' doctors on many occasions actually and if you want me to I will prove it.
You once denied you were a racist until I copied and pasted your blatant racist comments (ie judging a person solely on the colour of their skin)
You are now denying something that I can also prove to be true if you so desire.
The bottom line is you can talk as much as you like on an internet forum. Endless ramblings, rants, opinions etc but a man is not judged by his words but his actions. Your words have no limits or end but your actions seem to be of little consequence.
Maybe you behave this way because by your own admission you have psychological problems ie your job left you feeling depressed (your words not mine). With depression often comes feelings of low self esteem and self worth. Perhaps you should visit your GP to see if he can help......
03 June 2012, 09:19 AM
#118
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is between anyone in the market for anything. A 'free market'. The people within it are free to act as they wish, and they're certainly free to get together and bargain for better pay.
What you're describing is a free market with govt regulation against monopolies. It's not a feature of a free market per se. It's your idea of what a free market should be.
What you're describing is a free market with govt regulation against monopolies. It's not a feature of a free market per se. It's your idea of what a free market should be.
Yes a free market needs regulation in case monopolies or other forms of collusion occur.
03 June 2012, 09:25 AM
#119
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DingDongler you already said that being a Doctor needed rewarding in a special way - nobody else works hard or endures hardships at work - just wondered why you say that as it implies Doctors might quit if they were paid less, which in your view would be showing weakness of character and a lack of backbone. Does this mean that all Doctors have latent character flaws only revealed when pay/pensions fall?
03 June 2012, 10:31 AM
#120
Scooby Regular
DingDongler you already said that being a Doctor needed rewarding in a special way - nobody else works hard or endures hardships at work - just wondered why you say that as it implies Doctors might quit if they were paid less, which in your view would be showing weakness of character and a lack of backbone. Does this mean that all Doctors have latent character flaws only revealed when pay/pensions fall?
I never said either of those things. This is just more noise from you, more jibber jabber, more talk. I think it is all you do, just make noise, whether that noise makes any sense or not.
The bottom line is that you should acknowledge those that do things that you don't have the intelligence, commitment, dedication and mental strength to do.
Instead because you feel so inadequate about yourself you twist those qualities in your head and call them masochism, conceit etc