Muslim question
10 June 2012, 11:56 PM
#181
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I will admit to not having read much beyond the first post, but I believe that this new fellow is more at the Taliban end of the religion...
Is it not correct that a number of forbidden things (acts, food etc) are all acceptible to God if you didnt know, didnt have a choice or if your intentions were good?
Of course, theres a massive difference between knowing this and dealing with the problem.
Simon
Is it not correct that a number of forbidden things (acts, food etc) are all acceptible to God if you didnt know, didnt have a choice or if your intentions were good?
Of course, theres a massive difference between knowing this and dealing with the problem.
Simon
11 June 2012, 09:52 AM
#183
I will admit to not having read much beyond the first post, but I believe that this new fellow is more at the Taliban end of the religion...
Is it not correct that a number of forbidden things (acts, food etc) are all acceptible to God if you didnt know, didnt have a choice or if your intentions were good?
Of course, theres a massive difference between knowing this and dealing with the problem.
Simon
Is it not correct that a number of forbidden things (acts, food etc) are all acceptible to God if you didnt know, didnt have a choice or if your intentions were good?
Of course, theres a massive difference between knowing this and dealing with the problem.
Simon
Why didn't you know? Did your Lord not give you your faculties? Do you have no intelligence? If so you have a valid excuse.
Didn't have a choice:
Compulsion is a valid excuse.
Good intentions:
The Prophet Muhammad – Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him – said:
Actions are but by intentions, and everyone will have what he intended. So whoever migrated to Allah and His Messenger, he migrated to Allah and His Messenger. But whoever migrated for some worldly benefit, or to take a woman in marriage, then his migration was only to what he migrated to.
Al-Bukhâri, Muslim and others.
This hadîth teaches us the principle that acceptance of our deeds and whether or not they are regarded as righteous depends primarily on what the intention behind them is. If the intention is good and pure – to receive Allah’s pleasure and reward, the deed is righteous. Otherwise the deed is futile and false. This is the first thing that needs to be dealt with.
The second condition which needs to be met for our deeds to be accepted by Allah is that they should be in conformity with Islâm’s true teachings as taught to us by the Prophet – peace and blessing be upon him – and as understood and applied by the Righteous Predecessors. Hence, the Prophet - Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him - stated:
Whoever does a deed that does not conform to our commands will have it rejected.
Al-Bukhârî and Muslim.
Source: http://www.sayingsofthesalaf.net/ind...#ixzz1xTJ8lfyP
Good intentions are very important, but not fully understood by many. I always thought Osama Bin Laden was a good example for explaining this. We can assume he thought, his intentions when planning the many attacks and explosions he took responsibility for, were good. So in his mind he has passed the first part. The second condition is where he has fallen down.
11 June 2012, 10:15 AM
#184
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What I don't get is how it's so immoral and a 'sin' to have sexual thoughts about these women but it's just a test, because in heaven you basically have a massive free-for-all with loads of virgins as a reward for not doing precisely that in life. Who made this stuff up?
Last edited by JTaylor; 11 June 2012 at 10:20 AM.
11 June 2012, 10:21 AM
#185
Muhhamed. And when the Meccan tribes called bullshît, the religion of peace was spread by the sword. And when the remainder of Arabia also called bullshít, they too 'reverted' under the pain of death. Islam, the literal translation of which is surrender, is recognised historically (and within the Koran itself) as having been founded upon death and violence on a massive scale. Almost an inversion of Jesus of Nazereth's message.
11 June 2012, 10:23 AM
#186
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Wow.
Well, I have a cousin who doesn't go in front of his cousin sisters because they're not modestly covered. However, they are covered they're wearing clothes.
Really weird.
Well, I have a cousin who doesn't go in front of his cousin sisters because they're not modestly covered. However, they are covered they're wearing clothes.
Really weird.
11 June 2012, 10:54 AM
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Muhhamad. And when the Meccan tribes called bullshît, the religion of peace was spread by the sword. And when the remainder of Arabia also called bullshít, they too 'reverted' under the pain of death. Islam, the literal translation of which is surrender, is recognised historically (and within the Koran itself) as having been founded upon death and violence on a massive scale. Almost an inversion of Jesus of Nazereth's message.
We take it all back, all is forgiven 'please please please' come back and fix the mess we made after you left
Last edited by Shaid; 11 June 2012 at 11:04 AM.
11 June 2012, 10:56 AM
#191
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Good intentions are very important, but not fully understood by many. I always thought Osama Bin Laden was a good example for explaining this. We can assume he thought, his intentions when planning the many attacks and explosions he took responsibility for, were good. So in his mind he has passed the first part. The second condition is where he has fallen down.
Geezer
11 June 2012, 11:00 AM
#192
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Anyway, ignorance IS an excuse and contrary to what you have been spoon fed you are forgetting one of Allah's name is 'Ar-Rahim' (The All-Merciful) hence take a chill pill, expand upon your knowledge and do not let your actions or your religion affect others. If you commit a few sins along the way don't worry about it. Living your life constantly trying not to commit any sin whatsoever is neigh on impossible. You just called 'JTaylor' a *****. Did the prophet (pbuh) call all the people who poked fun at him '******'? Not at all. In fact he took great care of them as you know ref the ill lady who swept the streets towards him. In fact this is my issue with religious folk. Take great care in not committing irrelevant so called sins whilst openly abusing someone else without a second thought.
Anyway as you were
Last edited by Shaid; 11 June 2012 at 11:04 AM.
11 June 2012, 11:04 AM
#193
You should hear yourself. From a non Muslim point of view you come across as jiberish.
Anyway, ignorance IS an excuse and contrary to what you have been spoon fed you are forgetting one of Allah's name is 'Ar-Rahim' (The All-Merciful) hence take a chill pill, expand upon your knowledge and do not let your actions or your religion affect others. If you commit a few sins along the way don't worry about it. Living your life constantly trying not to commit any sin whatsoever is neigh on impossible. You just called 'JTaylor' a *****. Did the prophet (pbuh) call all the people who poked fun at him '******'? Not at all. In fact he took great care of them as you know ref the ill lady who swept the streets towards him. In fact this is my issue with religious folk. Take great care in not committing irrelevant so called sins whilst openly abusing someone else without a second thought.
Anyway as you were
Anyway, ignorance IS an excuse and contrary to what you have been spoon fed you are forgetting one of Allah's name is 'Ar-Rahim' (The All-Merciful) hence take a chill pill, expand upon your knowledge and do not let your actions or your religion affect others. If you commit a few sins along the way don't worry about it. Living your life constantly trying not to commit any sin whatsoever is neigh on impossible. You just called 'JTaylor' a *****. Did the prophet (pbuh) call all the people who poked fun at him '******'? Not at all. In fact he took great care of them as you know ref the ill lady who swept the streets towards him. In fact this is my issue with religious folk. Take great care in not committing irrelevant so called sins whilst openly abusing someone else without a second thought.
Anyway as you were
Think you need a cup of coffee to wake you up pal
11 June 2012, 11:09 AM
#195
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Oops, sorry Abbas and Banny, you mentioned coffee. How right you are. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to make myself one now.
Last edited by Shaid; 11 June 2012 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Was praying and typing at the same time
11 June 2012, 11:19 AM
#196
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I am always surprised at so many peoples' attitude towards religion in general.
If you don't believe in it why bother to shout at those who do-what possible difference can their beliefs make to you?
What a waste of everyone's time to go trying to pick mini arguments about the little bits of rules about a religion which is different to your own if you have one or even if you don't. What on earth does that matter,what are you trying to prove?
So much easier to mind your own business and carry on with your own beliefs which you are of course entitled to hold.
One of the subjects which has always been advised to avoid discussing is religion,among others. The reasons are obvious, those with different beliefs will never accede to those of those with different ones. It always turns into a disruptive argument without any solution. No one will accept on principle any so called proof put forward by anyone else!
Best by far to just get on with your own beliefs and avoid self justification or trying to convert the world to your ideas about religion or atheism for that matter!
Les
If you don't believe in it why bother to shout at those who do-what possible difference can their beliefs make to you?
What a waste of everyone's time to go trying to pick mini arguments about the little bits of rules about a religion which is different to your own if you have one or even if you don't. What on earth does that matter,what are you trying to prove?
So much easier to mind your own business and carry on with your own beliefs which you are of course entitled to hold.
One of the subjects which has always been advised to avoid discussing is religion,among others. The reasons are obvious, those with different beliefs will never accede to those of those with different ones. It always turns into a disruptive argument without any solution. No one will accept on principle any so called proof put forward by anyone else!
Best by far to just get on with your own beliefs and avoid self justification or trying to convert the world to your ideas about religion or atheism for that matter!
Les
11 June 2012, 11:25 AM
#197
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It's not copied and pasted and what I typed is a matter of historical fact. You were even good enough to concur, Shaid. Someone can try and refute it, but they'll only be refuting Islamic holy books and we all know where that can lead. 
11 June 2012, 11:26 AM
#198
Les,
Don't you think it's important to at least understand these differences, or at the very least be aware of them? That to me is what has stemmed this thread, some bloke refusing to shake another human being's hand might be a bit odd to some.
Don't you think it's important to at least understand these differences, or at the very least be aware of them? That to me is what has stemmed this thread, some bloke refusing to shake another human being's hand might be a bit odd to some.
11 June 2012, 11:28 AM
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Only joking okay
(well obviously to the guy in OP she was not human enough)
11 June 2012, 11:31 AM
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11 June 2012, 11:38 AM
#202
I am very much of the mind that anyone who harbours ambiton to be a politician is not qualified for the job!
The sycophantic two faced lot in Westminster don't score very high in the popularity stakes with some still taking the p!ss with expenses! However we're digressing.
I am very much of the mind of 'when in Rome..' Whilst people's beliefs and religion should be respected I don't think it should be foisted on others. We a live in a modern and dynamic world where one has to constantly adapt to their environment. If my way of life clashed with my environment then I would seek a change of environment or alter my lifestyle to be more coherent with my surroundings. It has to be a bit of give and take otherwise we alienate each other create a lot of bad feeling.
Certain elements within society feed off this situation and attempt to create civil unrest and segragation. These undesireable elements exist in all parts of society and are present on both sides of the fence. Fortunately most of these rabble rousers show their true colours all too easily and are thankfully thwarted by the moderate majority. Most people in a modern British society just want to get on with each other and their lives in peace, harmony and mutual respect. As long as these boundaries are observed I see no issues and personal experience has confirmed this.
The sycophantic two faced lot in Westminster don't score very high in the popularity stakes with some still taking the p!ss with expenses! However we're digressing.
I am very much of the mind of 'when in Rome..' Whilst people's beliefs and religion should be respected I don't think it should be foisted on others. We a live in a modern and dynamic world where one has to constantly adapt to their environment. If my way of life clashed with my environment then I would seek a change of environment or alter my lifestyle to be more coherent with my surroundings. It has to be a bit of give and take otherwise we alienate each other create a lot of bad feeling.
Certain elements within society feed off this situation and attempt to create civil unrest and segragation. These undesireable elements exist in all parts of society and are present on both sides of the fence. Fortunately most of these rabble rousers show their true colours all too easily and are thankfully thwarted by the moderate majority. Most people in a modern British society just want to get on with each other and their lives in peace, harmony and mutual respect. As long as these boundaries are observed I see no issues and personal experience has confirmed this.
11 June 2012, 11:38 AM
#203
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Originally Posted by shaid
You should hear yourself. From a non Muslim point of view you come across as jiberish.
lol you should hear yourself one minute, quoting about poking fun, then doing the same to undermine him in front of everyone on here
Anyway, ignorance IS an excuse and contrary to what you have been spoon fed you are forgetting one of Allah's name is 'Ar-Rahim' (The All-Merciful) hence take a chill pill, expand upon your knowledge and do not let your actions or your religion affect others. If you commit a few sins along the way don't worry about it. Living your life constantly trying not to commit any sin whatsoever is neigh on impossible. You just called 'JTaylor' a *****. Did the prophet (pbuh) call all the people who poked fun at him '******'? Not at all. In fact he took great care of them as you know ref the ill lady who swept the streets towards him. In fact this is my issue with religious folk. Take great care in not committing irrelevant so called sins whilst openly abusing someone else without a second thought.
lol you should hear yourself one minute, quoting about poking fun, then doing the same to undermine him in front of everyone on here
Anyway, ignorance IS an excuse and contrary to what you have been spoon fed you are forgetting one of Allah's name is 'Ar-Rahim' (The All-Merciful) hence take a chill pill, expand upon your knowledge and do not let your actions or your religion affect others. If you commit a few sins along the way don't worry about it. Living your life constantly trying not to commit any sin whatsoever is neigh on impossible. You just called 'JTaylor' a *****. Did the prophet (pbuh) call all the people who poked fun at him '******'? Not at all. In fact he took great care of them as you know ref the ill lady who swept the streets towards him. In fact this is my issue with religious folk. Take great care in not committing irrelevant so called sins whilst openly abusing someone else without a second thought.
2: Yes Allah is the Most Merciful, but that dont mean you dont care and not worry about the sins you commit, you should worry about them! Insha Allah, Allah will forgive any sins big or small as long as we sincerely ask forgiveness to him and you don't repeat the same mistake.
If one fulfils the conditions of repentance, i.e. regret and make firm
intention to reform, then surely Allah Ta'ala is Tawwaab (Most Forgiving)
However if you do sin again or commit the same mistake after asking for forgiveness, You should renew your Tawbah and again make a firm intention never to repeat the sin.
Now if you do not recognise a sin as a sin how may you do tawbah from it? you can water it down as much as you want in order to make yourself appear as a modern more liberal muslim, who uses their own logic etc. but anyone who does go ahead and continue to shake the hand of the opposite sex will have to repent and not take a chill pill and forget about it.
3: with reference to your issue with religious folk.. they are the same as you and i? so what if they appear to be more practicing muslims in their dress code or appearance. sins are sins. and just cause they do it, dont make it right, they will also have to repent for the stuff they do wrong.
Last edited by eggy790; 11 June 2012 at 11:49 AM. Reason: red txt, changed to black
11 June 2012, 11:46 AM
#204
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Well you'd have to disprove cogito ergo sum in order to pull that one off and while I've no doubt you're a bright kid, that may be beyond you. Anyway, past isn't past, is it? Salafists are gaining ground across the planet - in fact across the North West of England they're positively rampant!
11 June 2012, 11:54 AM
#205
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as for the above, ignorance is not an excuse, in the same way if you overtake on the road on a double solid whiteline and complain o i didnt know. yet copper slaps 3 points and 60 pound fine on you. it's your fault you didnt study the highway code and learn whats allowed and what aint.
2: Yes Allah is the Most Merciful, but that dont mean you dont care and not worry about the sins you commit, you should worry about them! Insha Allah, Allah will forgive any sins big or small as long as we sincerely ask forgiveness to him and you don't repeat the same mistake.
If one fulfils the conditions of repentance, i.e. regret and make firm
intention to reform, then surely Allah Ta'ala is Tawwaab (Most Forgiving)
However if you do sin again or commit the same mistake after asking for forgiveness, You should renew your Tawbah and again make a firm intention never to repeat the sin.
Now if you do not recognise a sin as a sin how may you do tawbah from it?
3: with reference to your issue with religious folk.. they are the same as you and i? so what if they appear to be more practicing muslims in their dress code or appearance. sins are sins. and just cause they do it, dont make it right, they will also have to repent for the stuff they do wrong.
2: Yes Allah is the Most Merciful, but that dont mean you dont care and not worry about the sins you commit, you should worry about them! Insha Allah, Allah will forgive any sins big or small as long as we sincerely ask forgiveness to him and you don't repeat the same mistake.
If one fulfils the conditions of repentance, i.e. regret and make firm
intention to reform, then surely Allah Ta'ala is Tawwaab (Most Forgiving)
However if you do sin again or commit the same mistake after asking for forgiveness, You should renew your Tawbah and again make a firm intention never to repeat the sin.
Now if you do not recognise a sin as a sin how may you do tawbah from it?
3: with reference to your issue with religious folk.. they are the same as you and i? so what if they appear to be more practicing muslims in their dress code or appearance. sins are sins. and just cause they do it, dont make it right, they will also have to repent for the stuff they do wrong.
Secondly please bare in mind you are not talking to a spoon feder growner upper here. Why should you walk around constantly in fear of committing any sin? You should be aware of what is right and what is wrong and act accordingly. Treat others how you would like to be treated. There really isn't much room for error. Some of the most moral people i know are athiests. Where did they get there morals from?
Last edited by Shaid; 11 June 2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Red text has been changed to black
11 June 2012, 11:57 AM
#206
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I am always surprised at so many peoples' attitude towards religion in general.
If you don't believe in it why bother to shout at those who do-what possible difference can their beliefs make to you?
What a waste of everyone's time to go trying to pick mini arguments about the little bits of rules about a religion which is different to your own if you have one or even if you don't. What on earth does that matter,what are you trying to prove?
So much easier to mind your own business and carry on with your own beliefs which you are of course entitled to hold.
One of the subjects which has always been advised to avoid discussing is religion,among others. The reasons are obvious, those with different beliefs will never accede to those of those with different ones. It always turns into a disruptive argument without any solution. No one will accept on principle any so called proof put forward by anyone else!
Best by far to just get on with your own beliefs and avoid self justification or trying to convert the world to your ideas about religion or atheism for that matter!
Les
If you don't believe in it why bother to shout at those who do-what possible difference can their beliefs make to you?
What a waste of everyone's time to go trying to pick mini arguments about the little bits of rules about a religion which is different to your own if you have one or even if you don't. What on earth does that matter,what are you trying to prove?
So much easier to mind your own business and carry on with your own beliefs which you are of course entitled to hold.
One of the subjects which has always been advised to avoid discussing is religion,among others. The reasons are obvious, those with different beliefs will never accede to those of those with different ones. It always turns into a disruptive argument without any solution. No one will accept on principle any so called proof put forward by anyone else!
Best by far to just get on with your own beliefs and avoid self justification or trying to convert the world to your ideas about religion or atheism for that matter!
Les
Of course what you believe personally is up to you. But if what you believe affects others, then it is fair and right to question it and discuss it.
I don't know you personally, but you have never struck me as the sort of person who would foist you views on someone else or discriminate against someone because of them. Sadly, that is not the case for many many people (like the person in the OP), and that is what we are talking about.
Kill them all and let God sort them out
Geezer
11 June 2012, 11:59 AM
#207
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Well you'd have to disprove cogito ergo sum in order to pull that one off and while I've no doubt you're a bright kid, that may be beyond you. Anyway, past isn't past, is it? Salafists are gaining ground across the planet - in fact across the North West of England they're positively rampant!
As for Salafists gaining ground. Brilliant. My chosen mosque is a Salafi one. Not to worry i'm not one of them yet. Mind you, a lot better that Salafi is taking hold rather than Wahabism don't you think?
11 June 2012, 12:00 PM
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11 June 2012, 12:09 PM
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Disproving that French theory would indeed be very challenging for me. I give you that one.
As for Salafists gaining ground. Brilliant. My chosen mosque is a Salafi one. Not to worry i'm not one of them yet. Mind you, a lot better that Salafi is taking hold rather than Wahabism don't you think?
As for Salafists gaining ground. Brilliant. My chosen mosque is a Salafi one. Not to worry i'm not one of them yet. Mind you, a lot better that Salafi is taking hold rather than Wahabism don't you think?
11 June 2012, 12:09 PM
#210
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First of all remember God is not Plod.
Secondly please bare in mind you are not talking to a spoon feder growner upper here. Why should you walk around constantly in fear of committing any sin? You should be aware of what is right and what is wrong and act accordingly. Treat others how you would like to be treated. There really isn't much room for error. Some of the most moral people i know are athiests. Where did they get there morals from?
Secondly please bare in mind you are not talking to a spoon feder growner upper here. Why should you walk around constantly in fear of committing any sin? You should be aware of what is right and what is wrong and act accordingly. Treat others how you would like to be treated. There really isn't much room for error. Some of the most moral people i know are athiests. Where did they get there morals from?