Shaid

Ta Daa

http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/...ave_rights.php

http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/...n_in_islam.php

Shaid

Or 'kuffar lying **** terminology'

Shaid

No seriously, no need to harm the kids. They are innocent

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Hypocritical much....

Shaid

Not at all

(possible tongue in cheek failure on your part)

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Pal I do not know you or have the inclination to know you, hence not getting your sense of humour. So no fail on my part

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

lol you just said your more concious in the way people see us as, why not be more concious of your lord?

and there you have it, in your 2nd paragraph what i was after all along, you are giving your opinion, finally made it clear. and your opinion wont change the teachings of islam or what the quran and sunnah say about it, even if you are a muslim.. your opinion is just your opinion, no matter how more appealing it seems to everyone else or even to yourself. for your own benefit, research the islamic concept of zina and the relationship between non mahram men and women etc. ask at your local salafi mosque.

Like you said before asking when you were referring to calling someone a *****.. what the prophet would do , would he poke fun etc. well have a look at his life, hes your role model or should be, how did he do it? how did he take bayah from women etc.?

Anyway off to pray dhuhr and i will do dua for us both that we are able to offer repentence for all the sins we commit knowingly and unknowingly.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Agreed James but it's a cultural norm for lads to get p!ssed at weekends and leer at barely clad females with phrases like 'look at the **** on that..' or 'phwoar I'd give her one..'
I daresay you've probably been in such a situation when surrounded by peers and alcohol.

JTaylor

It's almost universally frowned upon and certainly isn't written in to scripture. Not shaking hands with a women within the context of this discussion, however, is a religious edict that appears to demonstrate a devout Muslim's piety.

P.s Hope you're well, old chap!

Geezer

If women are so revered in Islam like in those links, then how come in reality they are so oppressed? You can quote liberal Islam until the cows come home, but all over the middle east and Africa (and to a lesser extent here), Muslim women are definately treated as second class citiznes. Hell, in Afghanistan they execute women for having an education!

So, whatever Islam should be, we have to deal with what Islam is. The person in the OP highlights this issue, thankfully at a somewhat benign level.

Geezer

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Fine thanks aside from the back woes that'll probably always be there.

My point wasn't made within the context of thread but as a general observation and in response to your point about women being viewed as sexual objects. I think it's part of the male psyche to a certain extent. I don't think religious deference quells this urge, and perhaps it's sanctimonious for people to claim they are completely above it. Human fallibility ensures we are far from perfect no matter how perfect we like to think we are.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Or in Pakistan you can be executed for singing in front of 2 men along with your 4 friends.

Such a tolerant and loving religion.

On a seperate note and a genuine question, what do you find to pray about 5 times a day? and do you actually pray or just sit there going through the motions so as not to stand out from everyone else?

Clarebabes

Keeping women oppressed and at home having kids means the population will continue to increase and therefore keep the religion going strong. Using religion as a basis for control is the most frightening aspect of it. The fact that some on here believe something without even questioning it is scary. Christianity was like this a few hundred years ago, but we've moved past it for good or bad. I myself live my life with a moral compass based on Christianity and common sense, but I am definitely not a religious person.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

This is the problem you and 90% of people don't do any research you just go off what you are told in the media and hearsay. If half the people who have an opinion on this thread had done any research into the actual teachings then we wouldn't have any issues. It's only the educated who actually do this who are a minority and have a better understanding.

To be honest if I would probably be the same as the above on other matters



Again another great example most of it is bollocks and I wouldn't be surprised if you read half of this in the daily mail. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but you have to look at where it happens and why......one thing I will say is how these people act has nothing to do with Islam it is man made deviation of there own idiotic beliefs as Islam condemns such actions.

The media takes every thing out of context and puts a spin on it if you don't understand that sh't by now your never going to,.....for instance "Taliban soldiers killed three collation soldiers whilst conducting routine operations this evening bringing the death toll up to.."

When in reality it's " innocent local tribes men killed three soldiers who booted of their door whilst terrorising the village."

We only hear what we are meant to hear, there alot of members who know Eggy and Abbas and I would bet £1000 on it that they will all tell you there nice lads. Not "fanatics" !!!

Shaid

Sorry but you really are coming across as super daft with that statement

I'm sure the crimes our chav friends commit aren't a representation of Britain nor it's people.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

On a serious note Banny,Shaid,Eggy,Abbas and Einstien we shouldn't be arguing amongst are selfs. Sort it out lads!!

JTaylor

Sorry, Maz, but we're talking about hand-shaking, not our mammalian urge to procreate. In the world within which I was brought up there's been a female PM, my primary school teachers were 50% female, 30% of my grammar school teachers were female (including my biology teacher who formally taught human reproduction), my 1st Crownhill Scout Group was led by a female Akela, my sister was treated equally by my father and my mother and grandmothers were free to work, drive, have an opinion and persue their careers. As a result, beyond babe of the week, I'm able to view women as more than a reproduction vessel. Where somebody states they are forbidden from shaking hands because of the sexual urges that may instigate, I question deeply their maturity, how they view women and the credibility of the ideology that's ratified the edict. I understand the sentiment, btw, I went to an all boys school, but it was never suggested that gender segregation should stretch beyond puberty.

Shaid

I'm glad you can tell the difference as to how women are supposed to be revered and as to what reality is. Fortunately along with education things are steadily improving. What used to be acceptable is now becoming unacceptable.

Shaid

Very true, in fact isn't this how the British broke up India?

Now on SN, the OP lit a fire and done a runner leave the rest of us to add our own bits of fuel to it.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I think you will find the OP got his answer and has buggered off to leave the usual protagonists to make this another 30 page thread which ultimately achieves nothing as usual

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Other than this stupid comment above what do you actually know about Islam and have you any first hand experience of this so called law in Pakistan or is it a google jobby?

Sorry to sound blunt

It's just the same old stuff people hear through the media and hear say. I feel like creating some sort or educational programme or road show that we can educate todays youngsters with so my kids don't have to go through all this.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

FFS like I said earlier respect others are you will be respected back, no matter what the religion!
It's just going round and round and people are just not willing to listen, so if that's the case take it as experience or not, either way shut the **** up, because I feel this thread is disrespecting to members beliefs which I think is very rude.
Accept or not! And leave it alone.

Vote from me to close this stupid thread!!!

Shaid

Oh, right.... well....

Here are some pictures of Pakistan you will never see in our press

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/road...tures-pakistan

http://www.ijc.com.pk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=324

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I know **** all about Islam and I never said anything about a law. I was only commenting on a story on the news, so unless the entire news system in the UK is corrupt and lying why would I not believe it?

Also there are so many attrocities carreid out in the name of Islam what am I supposed to believe?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

No arguing as far as I'm concerned Immy.

JTaylor

One part (eventually) adopted and maintained broadly Western policies and is now one of the fastest growing economies in the World. The other became an Islamic Republic resulting in its status as a broadly illiterate, bankrupt, corrupt, terrorist-ridden stone in the shoe of the international community. See if you work out which is which.

Shaid

Still your fault

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

[QUOTE=Shaid;1066081 Still your fault [/QUOTE]

JTaylor

To be fair, what could we do when faced with such a great man as Ghandi? I feel indebted to the (Sikh, Christian, Hindu, Jain and Buddhist) Indians for their continued friendship and partnership.

Geezer

This gets wheeled out all the time. If by research, you mean writings that are extremely biaised the other way, then where does that take us? Of course, on both sides, views are presented to shore up their arguments/views to a degree, but there is no doubt that in the middle east and Africa, women's rights or treatment is a long way behind what it should be.

Whether that is what the Quran teaches or not is uttlery irrelevant, they are all reading from the same Quran, and they interpet it different ways. Just because you say it preaches love and tolerance the way you interpret it, doesn't necessarily hold sway for others. It's not maths, it's subjective.



Again, it's open to interpetation. You don't deny this happnes, and it happnens in the name of Islam, because like all other religions, Islam is an invention of man and reflects his predujices. For people who are moderate, they read moderate things in to it.

Ah, so an opinion of someone who contradicts your view is talking bollocks from the Daily Mail, but you expect us to utterly believe your sh*t from the other side of the argument? Class


That argument also holds for what you believe. If you can't see that, then.......

I'm sure you are a nice guy, but then again, you have lived in the tolerant (mostly ) West. Go and live in Helmand for 20 years, see which you prefer

Geezer