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09 June 2012, 12:25 PM
#32
The whole problem of LEAVING them switched into circuit could be solved by the car manfacturers.
On our Citroen Xantia, when you select main beam, a relay latches. When switching the LIGHTS off after a journey, that relay then UN-latches and the lights are back on dip when you set off.
Why couldn't the smeme system be fitted for foglights?
On our Citroen Xantia, when you select main beam, a relay latches. When switching the LIGHTS off after a journey, that relay then UN-latches and the lights are back on dip when you set off.
Why couldn't the smeme system be fitted for foglights?
09 June 2012, 12:33 PM
#33
fog lights are annoying when used in daylight but these arseholes with aftermarket HID kits fitted with the wrong beam pattern blind the **** out of folk,
thank god there now an MOT failure.
easy target for the traffic cops to spot and fine people
thank god there now an MOT failure.
easy target for the traffic cops to spot and fine people
09 June 2012, 12:47 PM
#34
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As for the use of fog lights, yes they give out light but useless? No they are not, but you have to use your brain and decrease speed so they are effective 
Fog lights also give a beam directly in front of the car, this is their major issue in good conditions, they do not come under the MOT rules so do not have to be tested for direction, which makes every muppet that uses them in decent conditions a potential hazzard to other road users.
Fog lights also give a beam directly in front of the car, this is their major issue in good conditions, they do not come under the MOT rules so do not have to be tested for direction, which makes every muppet that uses them in decent conditions a potential hazzard to other road users.
Correctly set up fogs should not shine above knee height at 2m away, and by the time they get further than 2m they should be diffused, as fogs have pattered glass to stop glare. Hence the difference between driving lights (clear) and fogs (patterned).
IF the car driver has them pointed upwards then they must have been off, or the driver has had an accident, as they usually don`t get touched due to their frequency of use. And even then they will be no brighter than a dipped headlight misaligned, but less intense due to the diffuse light produced.
I spend a lot of time driving through unlit lanes and motorways, and when I do I use all available light up front as I need to be able to see, and the fogs in lanes helps light up the hedgerows as main beam usually projects too far. But then I`ve set mine up properly, but in any area where I`m following cars or have street lights they go off. Many a badger has been avoided due to their use, except one Kamikaze one.
You must be confusing rear fogs with fronts, as even their picture on the switch shows front fogs angle down and rears do not. These do cause dazzle due to being usually at head height, and do not angle down. They also mask the brake lights on most cars, and are usually brighter than the brake light bulbs on most cars. When I use a rear fog when a car comes up behind me I turn mine off for that reason, as they are close enough to see me in reduced conditions, and can see my brake lights more clearly as there is no brighter light on the back obscuring them.
09 June 2012, 01:22 PM
#35
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Front fogs angle down but having been followed by many a tw@t with them on in the rain I can confirm they dazzle right off the wet road into your mirror.
Front fogs are not an essential in the fog, many cars do without them and they are not a requirement by law.....and for good reason.
Idiots that drive with them on do my head in- almost as much as the morons who drive about in fog/haze and dusk without any lights on at all....because "they can see where they are going"....
Problem is no other **** on the road can see them coming!
Front fogs are not an essential in the fog, many cars do without them and they are not a requirement by law.....and for good reason.
Idiots that drive with them on do my head in- almost as much as the morons who drive about in fog/haze and dusk without any lights on at all....because "they can see where they are going"....
Problem is no other **** on the road can see them coming!
09 June 2012, 01:40 PM
#37
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But these new Audi LEDs are a LOT brighter than my dipped and fogs, and really dazzle as their light isn`t focused. Also their Xenons are like a camera flash going off in the dark and can make you unable to see if you are unlucky enough to be looking in your rear view mirror when they flash you.
Front fogs angle down but having been followed by many a tw@t with them on in the rain I can confirm they dazzle right off the wet road into your mirror.
Front fogs are not an essential in the fog, many cars do without them and they are not a requirement by law.....and for good reason.
Idiots that drive with them on do my head in- almost as much as the morons who drive about in fog/haze and dusk without any lights on at all....because "they can see where they are going"....
Problem is no other **** on the road can see them coming!
Front fogs are not an essential in the fog, many cars do without them and they are not a requirement by law.....and for good reason.
Idiots that drive with them on do my head in- almost as much as the morons who drive about in fog/haze and dusk without any lights on at all....because "they can see where they are going"....
Problem is no other **** on the road can see them coming!
Fogs in the fog are next to useless, even at 10mph or less, but I find them more of use in dark lanes for that extra bit of side illumination.
Cars with no lights on are plainly dangerous.
Last edited by Jimbob; 09 June 2012 at 01:50 PM.
09 June 2012, 03:34 PM
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Considering that I had my first car with fog lights back in 1993, I have probably never needed to use the front fogs more than 5 times between then and now, thats 19 years and I live up in the hills where the general visibility drops far more than it does elsewhere.
As for the use of fog lights, yes they give out light but useless? No they are not, but you have to use your brain and decrease speed so they are effective
Fog lights also give a beam directly in front of the car, this is their major issue in good conditions, they do not come under the MOT rules so do not have to be tested for direction, which makes every muppet that uses them in decent conditions a potential hazzard to other road users.
Xenons can glare, ive seen some that do and some that dont, as per the MOT they are suppose to be pointing in towards the left hand kerb, now with the other hid kits (hence why they are on the list to be come illegal) is that they are not suited to alot of cars that run/ran halogen bulbs due to the crap way they distribute light, sooner those are banned the better, but fog lights should only be used when the visibility is less than 100m, most people seem to think thats either a sunny day or visibility in excess of 500m and they can maintain their speed and not slow down
Tony
As for the use of fog lights, yes they give out light but useless? No they are not, but you have to use your brain and decrease speed so they are effective
Fog lights also give a beam directly in front of the car, this is their major issue in good conditions, they do not come under the MOT rules so do not have to be tested for direction, which makes every muppet that uses them in decent conditions a potential hazzard to other road users.
Xenons can glare, ive seen some that do and some that dont, as per the MOT they are suppose to be pointing in towards the left hand kerb, now with the other hid kits (hence why they are on the list to be come illegal) is that they are not suited to alot of cars that run/ran halogen bulbs due to the crap way they distribute light, sooner those are banned the better, but fog lights should only be used when the visibility is less than 100m, most people seem to think thats either a sunny day or visibility in excess of 500m and they can maintain their speed and not slow down
Tony
Also there seem to be quite a few people on hear obsessed with having very loud horns.
I have probably used my horn less than my fog lights.
09 June 2012, 05:39 PM
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09 June 2012, 07:02 PM
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Seriously?? A MAJOR issue??
Correctly set up fogs should not shine above knee height at 2m away, and by the time they get further than 2m they should be diffused, as fogs have pattered glass to stop glare. Hence the difference between driving lights (clear) and fogs (patterned).
IF the car driver has them pointed upwards then they must have been off, or the driver has had an accident, as they usually don`t get touched due to their frequency of use. And even then they will be no brighter than a dipped headlight misaligned, but less intense due to the diffuse light produced.
I spend a lot of time driving through unlit lanes and motorways, and when I do I use all available light up front as I need to be able to see, and the fogs in lanes helps light up the hedgerows as main beam usually projects too far. But then I`ve set mine up properly, but in any area where I`m following cars or have street lights they go off. Many a badger has been avoided due to their use, except one Kamikaze one.
You must be confusing rear fogs with fronts, as even their picture on the switch shows front fogs angle down and rears do not. These do cause dazzle due to being usually at head height, and do not angle down. They also mask the brake lights on most cars, and are usually brighter than the brake light bulbs on most cars. When I use a rear fog when a car comes up behind me I turn mine off for that reason, as they are close enough to see me in reduced conditions, and can see my brake lights more clearly as there is no brighter light on the back obscuring them.
Correctly set up fogs should not shine above knee height at 2m away, and by the time they get further than 2m they should be diffused, as fogs have pattered glass to stop glare. Hence the difference between driving lights (clear) and fogs (patterned).
IF the car driver has them pointed upwards then they must have been off, or the driver has had an accident, as they usually don`t get touched due to their frequency of use. And even then they will be no brighter than a dipped headlight misaligned, but less intense due to the diffuse light produced.
I spend a lot of time driving through unlit lanes and motorways, and when I do I use all available light up front as I need to be able to see, and the fogs in lanes helps light up the hedgerows as main beam usually projects too far. But then I`ve set mine up properly, but in any area where I`m following cars or have street lights they go off. Many a badger has been avoided due to their use, except one Kamikaze one.
You must be confusing rear fogs with fronts, as even their picture on the switch shows front fogs angle down and rears do not. These do cause dazzle due to being usually at head height, and do not angle down. They also mask the brake lights on most cars, and are usually brighter than the brake light bulbs on most cars. When I use a rear fog when a car comes up behind me I turn mine off for that reason, as they are close enough to see me in reduced conditions, and can see my brake lights more clearly as there is no brighter light on the back obscuring them.
As you dont seem to know much about fog lights....
To start with, YES THEY DAZZLE!!! hence why you use them in fog, unlike headlights which point INWARDS to the KERB, fogs DONT, they point STRAIGHT AHEAD, and they are not set up in the same way headlights are (which by law should not dazzle oncoming traffic).
Idiots who use fog lights on dark unlit roads are morons, simple as, there is zero need to use any other lights other than your standard beam or full beam on dark nights, ffs i live on a road that has alot of unlit area's and yet I DO NOT NEED to use foglights to see, even the B road near us, no need for it.
As for your different glass theory.... see the picture below
http://www.performance-car-guide.co....ot-309-GTi.jpg
Car is fitted with the same glass for both the fog lights and driving lights (fogs being the outer, driving lights being the inner on a 309 gti, one of the few that actually had both), even my little Citroen has pretty clear glass front fogs (that probably will never get used), rear fogs I can agree on the use, they are actually more useful than front fogs, except when you get some numpty putting them on when its raining so it dazzles the people behind
but if you dont think that front fogs dazzle, why are so many of us saying they do? (note from experience that ive driven alot for the jobs i've had to do, day time, night time, dark roads, well lit roads, roads with bends in, straight roads, and every time the numpty with the front fogs has ALWAYS dazzled the oncoming traffic.Tony
09 June 2012, 07:43 PM
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Let's not start on using rear fog lights when it's raining!!!
Now that really does p*ss me off!
The dazzle is horrific.
Now that really does p*ss me off!
The dazzle is horrific.
09 June 2012, 09:39 PM
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Have to say I have no sympathy at all. Why did you have your fog lights on?
It seriously annoys me when people have them on. I understand they point at the ground fine but why have them on then?
It seriously annoys me when people have them on. I understand they point at the ground fine but why have them on then?
09 June 2012, 10:45 PM
#44
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Fog light ******* would all but disappear if one button was fitted which operates both the front and rear fogs at the same time. While we're at it, car manufacturers should be made to fit fog light switches which cancel the light as soon as the ignition is switched off - this way, the tossers who want to look "cool" are easier to spot as they haven't accidently left them switched on when the car was last used.
Just going on from something Tony said - i can't remember the last time i "needed" to use the front fogs and in my driving career which has spanned 17 years and probably in the region of 250,000 miles, i can probably use one hand to count how many times they have been required.
Just going on from something Tony said - i can't remember the last time i "needed" to use the front fogs and in my driving career which has spanned 17 years and probably in the region of 250,000 miles, i can probably use one hand to count how many times they have been required.
10 June 2012, 05:01 PM
#46
Really ****s me off these ********* with there fogs on thinking its cool. Init.
Whats the point of having your fogs on when it isnt foggy and pissing other road users off road users because your dazzeling them. Should be more tickets handed out.
Whats the point of having your fogs on when it isnt foggy and pissing other road users off road users because your dazzeling them. Should be more tickets handed out.
10 June 2012, 06:21 PM
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Ok you really are taking the P now
As you dont seem to know much about fog lights....
To start with, YES THEY DAZZLE!!! hence why you use them in fog, unlike headlights which point INWARDS to the KERB, fogs DONT, they point STRAIGHT AHEAD, and they are not set up in the same way headlights are (which by law should not dazzle oncoming traffic).
Idiots who use fog lights on dark unlit roads are morons, simple as, there is zero need to use any other lights other than your standard beam or full beam on dark nights, ffs i live on a road that has alot of unlit area's and yet I DO NOT NEED to use foglights to see, even the B road near us, no need for it.
As for your different glass theory.... see the picture below
http://www.performance-car-guide.co....ot-309-GTi.jpg
Car is fitted with the same glass for both the fog lights and driving lights (fogs being the outer, driving lights being the inner on a 309 gti, one of the few that actually had both), even my little Citroen has pretty clear glass front fogs (that probably will never get used), rear fogs I can agree on the use, they are actually more useful than front fogs, except when you get some numpty putting them on when its raining so it dazzles the people behind but if you dont think that front fogs dazzle, why are so many of us saying they do? (note from experience that ive driven alot for the jobs i've had to do, day time, night time, dark roads, well lit roads, roads with bends in, straight roads, and every time the numpty with the front fogs has ALWAYS dazzled the oncoming traffic.
Tony
As you dont seem to know much about fog lights....
To start with, YES THEY DAZZLE!!! hence why you use them in fog, unlike headlights which point INWARDS to the KERB, fogs DONT, they point STRAIGHT AHEAD, and they are not set up in the same way headlights are (which by law should not dazzle oncoming traffic).
Idiots who use fog lights on dark unlit roads are morons, simple as, there is zero need to use any other lights other than your standard beam or full beam on dark nights, ffs i live on a road that has alot of unlit area's and yet I DO NOT NEED to use foglights to see, even the B road near us, no need for it.
As for your different glass theory.... see the picture below
http://www.performance-car-guide.co....ot-309-GTi.jpg
Car is fitted with the same glass for both the fog lights and driving lights (fogs being the outer, driving lights being the inner on a 309 gti, one of the few that actually had both), even my little Citroen has pretty clear glass front fogs (that probably will never get used), rear fogs I can agree on the use, they are actually more useful than front fogs, except when you get some numpty putting them on when its raining so it dazzles the people behind
but if you dont think that front fogs dazzle, why are so many of us saying they do? (note from experience that ive driven alot for the jobs i've had to do, day time, night time, dark roads, well lit roads, roads with bends in, straight roads, and every time the numpty with the front fogs has ALWAYS dazzled the oncoming traffic.Tony
If you actually understood the differences between a front fog/driving-lamp/rear fog, then that would be a start.
You obviously need to be shown as you clearly don`t understand, see your highlighted comment above.
These are from my shelves in my garage, not opinion or google images.
1 Driving lamps, both clear and patterned glass.
Note no cover over the bulb.
Driving lamp on the left, and FOG on the right.
2 Rear fogs.
Again note no cover over the bulb.
3 Front fogs.
Oh notice a cover over the bulb, just like a dipped headlight.
DIPPED HEADLIGHT.
This is to show the comparison between the front fog and a dipped headlight, which your so adamant there is none other than bulb and glass.
Note the cap obscuring the direct beam production so pointing the beam down, same as a front fog lamp.
Watch out for those dipped headlights, they may dazzle you and cause an accident!!
So to recap, rear fogs, spotlamps or driving lamps, reverse lamps, indicators, main beam, and LED lights, all project light directly forwards form the mounting pint of the light, some focused (main beam) the rest usually not.
Front fogs, dipped headlights both point their beams DOWN due to their construction and design. Despite having a similar outwards look to a driving lamp, the cap inside a fog lamp blocks off the direct transmission of light, so as to NOT dazzle. The whole idea of a fog lamp is to MINIMISE DAZZLING to be useful in fog where a lamp that causes dazzle ie a main beam reduces visibility when in normal conditions aids visibility ie spots.
http://support.kchilites.com/index.p...ight-patterns/
Last edited by Jimbob; 10 June 2012 at 06:52 PM.
10 June 2012, 07:12 PM
#49
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The reason why they "dazzle" is that you see fogs and automatically think "****tards with fogs on, dazzling me!"
If you actually understood the differences between a front fog/driving-lamp/rear fog, then that would be a start.
You obviously need to be shown as you clearly don`t understand, see your highlighted comment above.
These are from my shelves in my garage, not opinion or google images.
1 Driving lamps, both clear and patterned glass.
Note no cover over the bulb.
Driving lamp on the left, and FOG on the right.
2 Rear fogs.
Again note no cover over the bulb.
3 Front fogs.
Oh notice a cover over the bulb, just like a dipped headlight.
DIPPED HEADLIGHT.
This is to show the comparison between the front fog and a dipped headlight, which your so adamant there is none other than bulb and glass.
Note the cap obscuring the direct beam production so pointing the beam down, same as a front fog lamp.
Watch out for those dipped headlights, they may dazzle you and cause an accident!!
So to recap, rear fogs, spotlamps or driving lamps, reverse lamps, indicators, main beam, and LED lights, all project light directly forwards form the mounting pint of the light, some focused (main beam) the rest usually not.
Front fogs, dipped headlights both point their beams DOWN due to their construction and design. Despite having a similar outwards look to a driving lamp, the cap inside a fog lamp blocks off the direct transmission of light, so as to NOT dazzle. The whole idea of a fog lamp is to MINIMISE DAZZLING to be useful in fog where a lamp that causes dazzle ie a main beam reduces visibility when in normal conditions aids visibility ie spots.
http://support.kchilites.com/index.p...ight-patterns/
If you actually understood the differences between a front fog/driving-lamp/rear fog, then that would be a start.
You obviously need to be shown as you clearly don`t understand, see your highlighted comment above.
These are from my shelves in my garage, not opinion or google images.
1 Driving lamps, both clear and patterned glass.
Note no cover over the bulb.
Driving lamp on the left, and FOG on the right.
2 Rear fogs.
Again note no cover over the bulb.
3 Front fogs.
Oh notice a cover over the bulb, just like a dipped headlight.
DIPPED HEADLIGHT.
This is to show the comparison between the front fog and a dipped headlight, which your so adamant there is none other than bulb and glass.
Note the cap obscuring the direct beam production so pointing the beam down, same as a front fog lamp.
Watch out for those dipped headlights, they may dazzle you and cause an accident!!
So to recap, rear fogs, spotlamps or driving lamps, reverse lamps, indicators, main beam, and LED lights, all project light directly forwards form the mounting pint of the light, some focused (main beam) the rest usually not.
Front fogs, dipped headlights both point their beams DOWN due to their construction and design. Despite having a similar outwards look to a driving lamp, the cap inside a fog lamp blocks off the direct transmission of light, so as to NOT dazzle. The whole idea of a fog lamp is to MINIMISE DAZZLING to be useful in fog where a lamp that causes dazzle ie a main beam reduces visibility when in normal conditions aids visibility ie spots.
http://support.kchilites.com/index.p...ight-patterns/
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...8/IMG_0188.jpg
So you were saying??
Tony
10 June 2012, 07:26 PM
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Should we just try one that is fitted to a new car? My car is oh, 2 months old, i've not even turned them on I don't think, so this is a real untouched factory fitted front fog lamp.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...8/IMG_0188.jpg
So you were saying??
Tony
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...8/IMG_0188.jpg
So you were saying??
Tony
Thats a flood lamp, or driving light. Or probably called an Auxiliary light in the cars manual.
This is from KC manufacturers of auxiliary lighting.
Originally Posted by KC
Basically, we have 4 types of light patterns: Fog, Driving, Long Range and Flood.
Fog: Fog lights are intended to be mounted below a vehicle's headlights and project a beam pattern which is very wide but not very tall or far. This pattern lights up a pathway close to the ground but does not light the airborne particles in the driver's line of sight - this increases the driver's vision in bad weather. KC Fog Lights are very useful in Dust, Fog, Rain and Snow. They also work well as Cornering lights in clear conditions.
Driving: Driving lights are designed to supplement your high beam headlights. KC Driving Lights produce a rectangular beam pattern that can reach further and wider than your headlights. These lights are available in higher wattages and create much more candlepower that stock headlights. Driving lights are very useful to help see things near the edges of the roadways and to increase the amount of light out in front of the vehicle. They are great for all around trail riding as well.
Long Range: Long Range lights are able to penetrate deep into the night. KC Long Range Lights produce a tighter, more focused beam of light (pencil beam) to see way out ahead toward the horizon. These lights create the brightest beam pattern and most candlepower available. Long Range lights are typically used for Off Highway, Commercial, Agricultural and Racing applications.
Flood: Flood lights create a large pattern of light that utilizes a vertical and horizontal beam pattern. These lights are typically used as work lights and back-up lights.
Fog: Fog lights are intended to be mounted below a vehicle's headlights and project a beam pattern which is very wide but not very tall or far. This pattern lights up a pathway close to the ground but does not light the airborne particles in the driver's line of sight - this increases the driver's vision in bad weather. KC Fog Lights are very useful in Dust, Fog, Rain and Snow. They also work well as Cornering lights in clear conditions.
Driving: Driving lights are designed to supplement your high beam headlights. KC Driving Lights produce a rectangular beam pattern that can reach further and wider than your headlights. These lights are available in higher wattages and create much more candlepower that stock headlights. Driving lights are very useful to help see things near the edges of the roadways and to increase the amount of light out in front of the vehicle. They are great for all around trail riding as well.
Long Range: Long Range lights are able to penetrate deep into the night. KC Long Range Lights produce a tighter, more focused beam of light (pencil beam) to see way out ahead toward the horizon. These lights create the brightest beam pattern and most candlepower available. Long Range lights are typically used for Off Highway, Commercial, Agricultural and Racing applications.
Flood: Flood lights create a large pattern of light that utilizes a vertical and horizontal beam pattern. These lights are typically used as work lights and back-up lights.
Same lights as above.
Driving lamp.
Same as your light above.
This is a REAL foglight.
Note the cut off and thin bar of light produced.
Last edited by Jimbob; 10 June 2012 at 07:30 PM.
11 June 2012, 09:57 AM
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Then thats NOT a fog lamp then. SIMPLES.
Thats a flood lamp, or driving light. Or probably called an Auxiliary light in the cars manual.
This is from KC manufacturers of auxiliary lighting.
And have a look here, was bored so heres what a REAL foglight and driving light look like.
Same lights as above.
Driving lamp.
Same as your light above.
This is a REAL foglight.
Note the cut off and thin bar of light produced.
Thats a flood lamp, or driving light. Or probably called an Auxiliary light in the cars manual.
This is from KC manufacturers of auxiliary lighting.
And have a look here, was bored so heres what a REAL foglight and driving light look like.
Same lights as above.
Driving lamp.
Same as your light above.
This is a REAL foglight.
Note the cut off and thin bar of light produced.
its a what light?Its a factory fitted front fog light to a 2012 model car, guess what, most of them are like that, my old Astra H was the same, so have been my Peugeot 306 GTI's etc, I could go round the car park and take pictures of all the fog lights on their cars too, but I think i've proven my point
fog lights glare, no protective cover on them, they are not suppose to be used in clear or rainy conditions, just fog (though also good for heavy snow).Go look at a few new cars and see what their front fogs are like
Tony
11 June 2012, 06:46 PM
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its a what light?Its a factory fitted front fog light to a 2012 model car, guess what, most of them are like that, my old Astra H was the same, so have been my Peugeot 306 GTI's etc, I could go round the car park and take pictures of all the fog lights on their cars too, but I think i've proven my point
fog lights glare, no protective cover on them, they are not suppose to be used in clear or rainy conditions, just fog (though also good for heavy snow).Go look at a few new cars and see what their front fogs are like
Tony
Are they fog lamps or driving lamps?
(I would expect driving lamps to be positioned higher than the ones within the bumper on the scooby)
Front Fog
Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
Max height 1200mm
No minimum height
A vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1986 needs an approval mark
Optional Front Dipped Beam Headlights (Driving lights?)
wired so that only 1 pair of dipped beam headlights can be displayed at one time.
500mm minimum height
1200mm max height
not required to have approval mark
But BEST way to tell is look at the markings on the lens if it has a B it is a fog lamp. (European approval marks)
If it has a C or an R it is an optional headlamp - although if it is, it doesn't need to be marked.
If it is below 500mm it should only be a fog lamp but I would still rely on the e-mark on the glass.
If unsure and lights on consider offences :
- display fog lamps otherwise than in seriously reduced visibility - Reg 27 or
- fail to conform to schedules (optional lamp) - reg 20
European approval marks
C Dipped-beam headlamp
R Main-beam headlamp
S Sealed-beam headlamp
H Halogen headlamp
B Front fog lamp (white or yellow)
B or F Rear fog lamp (red)
HCR Halogen headlamp emitting both main and dipped-beam
"Below the knee it needs a B"
(I would expect driving lamps to be positioned higher than the ones within the bumper on the scooby)
Front Fog
Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
Max height 1200mm
No minimum height
A vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1986 needs an approval mark
Optional Front Dipped Beam Headlights (Driving lights?)
wired so that only 1 pair of dipped beam headlights can be displayed at one time.
500mm minimum height
1200mm max height
not required to have approval mark
But BEST way to tell is look at the markings on the lens if it has a B it is a fog lamp. (European approval marks)
If it has a C or an R it is an optional headlamp - although if it is, it doesn't need to be marked.
If it is below 500mm it should only be a fog lamp but I would still rely on the e-mark on the glass.
If unsure and lights on consider offences :
- display fog lamps otherwise than in seriously reduced visibility - Reg 27 or
- fail to conform to schedules (optional lamp) - reg 20
European approval marks
C Dipped-beam headlamp
R Main-beam headlamp
S Sealed-beam headlamp
H Halogen headlamp
B Front fog lamp (white or yellow)
B or F Rear fog lamp (red)
HCR Halogen headlamp emitting both main and dipped-beam
"Below the knee it needs a B"
Picture proof your "Fog light" is NOT a fog light, as the European Type Approval number and code says its not.
Codes as they appear on REAL Fog Lights.
Note the B above the E number.
Subaru Fogs. Note the B above the E number.
And for completeness here's a rear fog with the F above the E number.
These are driving lights. Note H for Halogen and R for Main Beam headlight.
Now your so called "Fog Lights" note NO code above the E number.
As there is no code
If it has a C or an R it is an optional headlamp - although if it is, it doesn't need to be marked.
So no wonder your "FOG light" dazzles, according to its EU TYPE APPROVAL its an OPTIONAL HEADLAMP lmfao. The only code above the E number has a relevance to it`s type approval, or the lack of code. Your point is that you get glare from people using optional headlamps as fog lights, and using them when there is no fog. This is due to them being headlights, and not foglights, if they were foglights you would not get glare due to their costruction. If I drove around with my spotlights on on my jeep I`d blind everyone, or drove around with my main beam I`d do the same, this is what they are doing with these "fog lights". If they had type approved fog lights then there would be no glare. Car manufacturers fit these lamps as a styling option instead of function, and these type of lights as they are cheaper to make than a real fog light as there is no need for a cut off and internal blocking of the light. Its also why that type of light is useless in fog, as the beam scatter (which dazzles), lights up the fog like a curtain which a REAL fog light is designed NOT to do.
So again REAL fog lights do not dazzle, and these optional headlamps do. As I have said all along.
So next time you illuminate your main beam, you may feel confident in that you can also illuminate your optional headlamps in addition to the standard ones. Confident in the knowledge you are NOT illuminating FOG lamps.
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/t...ETA-09-03e.pdf
Again not the B category for font fogs, and the non marking for MISCELLANEOUS LAMPS.
Note again the B mark notated for front fogs.
Last edited by Jimbob; 11 June 2012 at 07:03 PM.
11 June 2012, 10:20 PM
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Honestly
Ok, my glass is made in Holland (E4), note the SAE number on the left, followed by F04, then the "B", oh look, according to you thats a front fog light, you may need to blow the photo up a bit but its there, "B", front fog light (hey it even say's front fogs on the stalk, this car doesnt have driving lights as its just a bog standard family hatch and not a sports car)
Keep on trying
Tony
Ok, my glass is made in Holland (E4), note the SAE number on the left, followed by F04, then the "B", oh look, according to you thats a front fog light, you may need to blow the photo up a bit but its there, "B", front fog light (hey it even say's front fogs on the stalk, this car doesnt have driving lights as its just a bog standard family hatch and not a sports car
)Keep on trying
Tony
12 June 2012, 12:58 AM
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Honestly
Ok, my glass is made in Holland (E4), note the SAE number on the left, followed by F04, then the "B", oh look, according to you thats a front fog light, you may need to blow the photo up a bit but its there, "B", front fog light (hey it even say's front fogs on the stalk, this car doesnt have driving lights as its just a bog standard family hatch and not a sports car)
Keep on trying
Tony
Ok, my glass is made in Holland (E4), note the SAE number on the left, followed by F04, then the "B", oh look, according to you thats a front fog light, you may need to blow the photo up a bit but its there, "B", front fog light (hey it even say's front fogs on the stalk, this car doesnt have driving lights as its just a bog standard family hatch and not a sports car
)Keep on trying
Tony
As with every other pic I have put up.
12 June 2012, 01:06 AM
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You really are grasping at straws now
keep on looking foolish, thanks for all the information you provided so you can see mine is a foglight even though the manufacturer has proved that, your links prove that, it has all the markings and it doesnt have to be above the e number as that just denotes the country of origin.If you also look at one of your links you can have F3 on foglights too (for the new type), virtually no car nowerdays has "driving lights" fitted as standard, tbh cars don't even need front fogs
but it seems to be a nice accessory Tony
12 June 2012, 01:11 AM
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Seriously?? A MAJOR issue??
Correctly set up fogs should not shine above knee height at 2m away, and by the time they get further than 2m they should be diffused, as fogs have pattered glass to stop glare. Hence the difference between driving lights (clear) and fogs (patterned).
IF the car driver has them pointed upwards then they must have been off, or the driver has had an accident, as they usually don`t get touched due to their frequency of use. And even then they will be no brighter than a dipped headlight misaligned, but less intense due to the diffuse light produced.
I spend a lot of time driving through unlit lanes and motorways, and when I do I use all available light up front as I need to be able to see, and the fogs in lanes helps light up the hedgerows as main beam usually projects too far. But then I`ve set mine up properly, but in any area where I`m following cars or have street lights they go off. Many a badger has been avoided due to their use, except one Kamikaze one.
You must be confusing rear fogs with fronts, as even their picture on the switch shows front fogs angle down and rears do not. These do cause dazzle due to being usually at head height, and do not angle down. They also mask the brake lights on most cars, and are usually brighter than the brake light bulbs on most cars. When I use a rear fog when a car comes up behind me I turn mine off for that reason, as they are close enough to see me in reduced conditions, and can see my brake lights more clearly as there is no brighter light on the back obscuring them.
Correctly set up fogs should not shine above knee height at 2m away, and by the time they get further than 2m they should be diffused, as fogs have pattered glass to stop glare. Hence the difference between driving lights (clear) and fogs (patterned).
IF the car driver has them pointed upwards then they must have been off, or the driver has had an accident, as they usually don`t get touched due to their frequency of use. And even then they will be no brighter than a dipped headlight misaligned, but less intense due to the diffuse light produced.
I spend a lot of time driving through unlit lanes and motorways, and when I do I use all available light up front as I need to be able to see, and the fogs in lanes helps light up the hedgerows as main beam usually projects too far. But then I`ve set mine up properly, but in any area where I`m following cars or have street lights they go off. Many a badger has been avoided due to their use, except one Kamikaze one.
You must be confusing rear fogs with fronts, as even their picture on the switch shows front fogs angle down and rears do not. These do cause dazzle due to being usually at head height, and do not angle down. They also mask the brake lights on most cars, and are usually brighter than the brake light bulbs on most cars. When I use a rear fog when a car comes up behind me I turn mine off for that reason, as they are close enough to see me in reduced conditions, and can see my brake lights more clearly as there is no brighter light on the back obscuring them.
12 June 2012, 01:27 AM
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Just how can a rear foglight be brighter than a brake light as they are both 21watt bulbs??? I agree with your point about turning them off as a car gets close to you. If I am coming up on a car with rear fogs on I stay back further especially if foggy due to their reduced front visability.
I also tend to find that the bulbs that are used less tend to be brighter than more frequently used bulbs, maybe thats just because they are fresher, but as you say they are the same bulb so should be the same.
And I do the same also when following in fog, but I do find that if they turn their rear fogs off once I`m following behind, it makes noticing them braking that much easier so I can react sooner.
Last edited by Jimbob; 12 June 2012 at 01:34 AM.
12 June 2012, 01:59 AM
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On the official front, rule 114 & 236
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...code/DG_070302
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...code/DG_069859
Tony
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...code/DG_070302
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...code/DG_069859
Tony