Quite a few companies help pay for this site with advertising, and may elect to remover their advert, and hence their money if they do not want to be associated with a BBS that contains "contraversial" material.

 

Well I'm simply confused.

I am happy to support Webbie but it would be nice to know why I'm being "responsible". To be honest if there is a reason, strong or otherwise, for not using this term I cannot understand how litigation will ensue if it is explained. Surely a responsible person would recognise that is the best way to achieve their aim.

I'm quite prepared never to use that terminology. But in time common usage will provide another unacceptable description of this group. Even the Spastics Society was compelled to change it's name! So far as turning Scoobynet into a farcical mockery, are we not about to do precisely that by conceeding these points and bowing to each and every monomanicac's threat.

 

There are a lot of thick skinned or selfish people here who are ignoring the resentful reaction of a target of what is clearly perceived as a term of abuse. Let's face it no-one has ever used 'Pikey/Pakki/*****/Wop/Dego/Mick' etc in a positive context; finding all this funny or the reaction incomprehensible is not really using your head properly. It clearly all goes further than simply being a bit naughty or a little cheeky. Anyone offended has the right to reject your ‘freedom of speech’, and request some consideration – not that most people here seem to care much.

Using potentially insulting remarks lightly is not connected to the perceived opposite of wrapping people in cotton wool! Being disparaging or using potentially disparaging generic terms to describe others wins you no points, it only underlines ignorance IMHO.

D

 

Mick/chinkey etc are all cleary offensive terms that everybody knows are out of bounds. Until recently, I think a large number of people here (inc myself) were unaware the Pikey was a term specifically offensive to a group of people, either through genuine ignorance, or a belief that the term had a differnent meaning nowadays.

This is not about being difficult for all of us. The key issue here is how to we prevent this happening again, with similar 'woolley' terms. For instance, I recently saw a post on here where someone was called a 'slag' - is that acceptable?

 

there is no problem with preventing it. Common sense normally prevails, and if it doesn't or is more complicated, I post a thread like this one.

The BIG problem has been the posts in this thread. It is easy to avoid that happening again.

regards

Simon

 

Diesel, going by your logic does this mean the next time I am in the pub and being a non smoker I can object and make every smoker in the pub stop smoking, then I can reject there freedom to smoke in a public place.
Personally ( and this is my personal feeling) you would have to be a really insecure person to be offended by such a stupid word as what is being debated here. Ever heard of "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me". If I got offended everytime the Germans called me a name I would be a nurvous wreck by now.

 

simon
as an occassional reader or poster - I am not your typical scooby netter - However this is the best run BBS I use/Visit because it contains diverse opinions - good banter - the odd serious flare up - and tolerates many different views - whilst being intolerant of intolerence - if you see what I mean

This is quite a trick, I hope the regular users appreciate that and respect your wishes.

I also hope your last post here wasn't a veiled hint that you won't repeat this type of open thread on moderation. Please continue to be open about this stuff - the debate will still happen via private email anyway.

More Power to you - i hope there are no serious consequences from some of the other posts on this subject.

 

Wurzel, you may be a tough old nut, but when someone calls me a name, I generally tell them to pack it in, or be a bit more original - rather than simply shrug it off and humour them. I am able to tease a 'Gypo' mate of mine about certain things, but that is between the two of us, and does not promote offensive terms by implied acceptance in a public forum. Also calling someone a smoker is not a generic racist term. Now calling them a *** might be (shoots self in foot!)

Jon - the first post in this section is clear and mentions 'severe offence'. That should have been enough to desist - the next 8 pages dis-prove your logic otherwise.

D

 

doing a search on Goggle for some history of the term i came across a funny site (not specificaly related to this topic)- if anyone wants the url drop me a mail, i think SDB has had enough for one day and i wouldnt want to impose what i find chuckle worthy on others.
Tiggs

 

I'm now more in the picture than I was a few hours ago and I fully support Simon's stance on this.

I think(personally not as a mod) that Scoobynet is in a difficult position. It seems as though most people on the BBS find the concept of someone finding a word in such common use(It's as common as calling an irish person 'Paddy' or a scottish person a jock) deeply offensive and that they would go to such lengths to ensure it's use is banned to be quite ridiculous.

Sitting here in my hotel room, i'm wondering if people 50-60 years ago thought that anyone getting offended by the term '******' to be as ludicrous as a lot of people think this case to be.

I'm also wondering if the growth(both here and in Europe) of the far right has to do with peoples feelings that maybe we have become too sensitive and too PC. Thus in order to get balance they go to the other extreme. (NOT JUSTIFYING THE FAR RIGHT BTW). True balance is found where both sides recognise that there is a difference between wilfully bigotted viewpoints and those made in all innocence and to some degree ignorance.

I found Romany's definition interesting and thanks for sharing it.

One thing is true however is that it's the people who make the most noise that get noticed, not the silent ones. Maybe it's time the 'silent' majority did more than just be apathetic and actually voice an opinion to those who can change things. I.e our MP's.

 

Dear local MP

Please Lower the petrol tax

Thanks

Wurzel

 

neil,

but when people used the term "******" were they using it as a term of offence? i assumed it was just the word they used without care if it caused offence or not. now, most, decent ppl wouldnt dream of using a term that offends a section of socioty based on skin colour.

perhaps? the problem with "p****" is that people (certainly ppl i know) use it as a term to desribe ppl that they have, in their mind, genuine issue with. subsequently when someone trys to take that word from general use it is defended more with more vigor?

if their perception is the ppl they wish to describe are behaving in a manner not fitting with society then why should they be allowed to remove their "tag"

Tiggs

 

Non moderator hat on.

Tiggs

I don't know if people used it as an offensive term or not. I suspect 50-60 years ago most 'white' people did'nt think or care if they caused offense to 'blacks'

It does beg the question that, for example in 'to kill a mockingbird' the term '******' is used a lot and so should we know delete the word from the book because it is not offensive?

The same goes for films(******) for example, should that now be editted to remove the derogartory words in that?

Taken to it's extreme we will end up in a 1984 style society where we will need to doublethink and retro edit all literature that could cause offense to some people groups.

The challenge we have as a society is to recognise the wilful use of derogatory terms and their use in genuine questions or works of fiction and make a judgement in each case.

This is'nt a subject for scoobynet to resolve, but one for our governments, which is why we should write to our MP with our concerns and ensure feelings are made known to those who can change things rather than those who cannot, in this case Simon and scoobynet.

 

I may be wrong, but my recollection of TKAM is that although the term '******' is used, it is used by those people that are performing injustices. The bloke defending (can't remember his name, but Greg Peck played him in the film ) didn't use the phrase '******' IIRC.

Interestingly, the film version of Agatha Christie's "10 Little ****** Boys" was called "10 Little Indians" (which is particularly bizarre, as I understood that '******' was a term of derision applied to Afro-Caribbeans, not Indians).

 

Simon,
First, don't get me wrong in that I REALLY appreciate what you do here and it's a great board full of, in the main,good people. It's a shame that you were obviously already irritated before you read my post. My point I made was PERFECTLY VALID and wasn't offensive therefore I don't see why it was removed. Either way I accept it because I have no choice but too and would hate to be removed from this board completely just because I exercised free speech in a way that someone else may disagree with - Maybe you would like to email me personally to tell me exactly WHAT was so offensive in a post that was basically upholding principles and proving a perfectly valid point. OK, the first "quip" I can understand that under the circumstance it may have been ill thought BUT the rest was valid.
Maybe it's time for a list of words, phrases, political references/influences, cars, opinions, rumours, names, etc., that we're not allowed to use just so we know where we stand.

 

Just read this post from start to finish.
Whatever my views are on the specified word I have respected the request from SDB. Its a pity SDB does not get support when he really needs it from the people that use this BBS.

Quite disgusted at some peoples manner.

 

Also FYI ****** is now a widely used term in the Californian hood areas of San Jose etc etc to describe your friends and is directed at al race creeds and colours, I know this coz I have just come back from there, I was staying with a mexican whos best friend was black and and girlfriend was white and they all refered to each other as ****** and also dog is another one, isn't dog a derogatory term in english to decribe an unatractive women aswell.

Me thinks people need to come into the 21st century, as I was told in San Jose it is not what you say it is how you say it.

 

Luke
I'm not sure which "side your on" but I think Simon has been given a break. People have accepted they were out of order and apologised. The word is no longer in use but a wider debate seems to have ensued.

I do have a concern that I'm out of step with society though. Some of the words used here I thought were more inflamatory than the one that caused the problem. Also whilst I genuinely never use the terms Mick Taff or Paddy I hadn't realised these were now offensive. If so is Navvy offensive as that described migrant workers with a certain notoriety?

 

I tried to say the same thing and was "edited" or should I say "deleted" be careful wurzel... BTW it's ok for a mod to say it.

Wonder if we're infiltrated by "New Labour"...

oh, sorry can I say "New Labour" here? ;-)

 

Having lived & worked on a travelling fairground for 12 months, I can fully appreciate the P word being offensive to them.
The people I worked with were hard working, decent people.
They pay a fortune for the fair ground equipment and contrary to popular belief do in fact pay taxes like all the rest of us.
It's hard to put in writing the different types of "Travellers" but here goes;
Take Indians for instance, to the average white man they are Indian, just plain Indian. Ask an Indian to identify another Indian and they will say he's a Sikh, Hindi or a Muslim just by looking at him.
That's almost the same as Travellers, you have Fairground travellers, travellers with a fixed site (like on the news today where the caravan was nicked from) who normally drive Motorway maintenance vehicles, and proper travellers with no fixed address who move from pillar to post breaking into privately owned fields for 2 weeks at a time picking up the odd tarmac driveway job in the process. The latter being the type that people moan about, usually young Gypsy kids causing trouble with the locals.(I'm not defending them as it does happen)
They can tell each other apart by their dialect, but it seems as if the public label them all as Pikeys.
Anyway I think that Scoobynet should refrain from using the word as it does fall into the same category as ***** and the N word referring to a Black man which I can’t even bring myself to write as I find it too offensive.
Just my opinion.

 

see this is the problem, john refers to "proper travelers with no fixed address who move from pillar to post breaking into privately owned fields"

this is what many peole are refering to when they use a variety of terms aimed at travelers in general.

and this group is very different from the other "groups" mentioned.

you wouldnt describe scots, brits, indians, yanks, muslims, jews, whites, blacks, etc, etc with an opener that refers to their criminal activites.

many, many people have genuine dislike (and a reason for it) of this secion of society- its a pity there isnt a word for them (or is there? ) so they could be described in isolation.

Tiggs

 

Be honest would you want them in your town or village?????

Let them have Wales to live in and be done with it.

 

I forget, as it's a while since I studied basic law, but is there actually a right to "free speech" in English law ?

A fair few posters in this thread have whinged about having their freedom of speech abused, violated and impinged upon, but are they just spewing a mantra put forward by Hollywood ?

As far as I recall, the only "free speech" enshrined by law in this country is Parliamentary Privelige.

 

Tiggs you've hit the nail on the head, what a pity there isn't a word for these trouble makers both you and I have identified.
They are the people that everyone fears invading their town or village.
Anyway enough said on the matter, you could go on all night debating this volatile subject.

 

To be honest I had never heard of the term until I read it here.

We have a couple of fixed sites around Mansfield with no problems at all.
We also have 4 sites for the fairground travellers who come two or three times a year, again no problems at all and they put on a good show.

Twice this year though we have had the no fixed address type take over Mansfield Woodhouse Train Station car park. The first time it cost the council over £30,000 to clear up the mess. The site was littered with old sofa's, building rubbish, household rubbish, gas bottles and human excrement. All the local press carried pictures.
From this the council erected barriers at the station but these were smashed down when they arrived the second time. As you can imagine the local reaction was not good and during this stay two pubs were smahed up and the local Co-op store was raided by a dozen of these people during opening hours.

Again the clearup cost thousands and now the car park is totally closed with heavy barriers so even the public can't use it.

Its a shame that the first two catagories of travellers get mixed up with the third.

Its also a shame that the Police don't seem to have the resources or power to deal with these people.

Lee

 

Right, I have read the last 9 PAGES with interest, it is NOT acceptable to slag off, moan about or abuse any other race, creed colour, lifestyle, body shape or sexuality. Point taken and I won't, however I feel the need to moan about something/somebody is a god given human right, its human nature, we all do it however pious so I am declaring now that you are all allowed to slag off 1 person.

YOURSELF

So I will start it, here goes

Them bloody Mark Jacksons, what a ***, he gets a week off and sits on his big fat **** playing GT3, bloody waste of space if you ask me, the gardens a mess. There he is again tonight, been drinking he has, he's a right p1ss head, 2 cans of Strongbow ! He's got 3 kids you know, thats all they do that lot, breed, sponging off the welfare state. White as the driven snow, pasty buggers, there goes the neighbourhood with that Indie music, Volvos and bedding plants. He stinks, I tell you, always eating them funny curries and farting. I would send the bloody lot of them back to where they came from me. Hey mate, whos minding the PC while your on here eh.

 

This thread should have been closed a while back. Its an open issue which i agree should be discussed. The webmaster has asked politely that it is not talked about, so why not just respect his wishes?

You never know. we may be able to have search back one day rather than you lot taking up his time on this subject.

 

no...

 

SDB Wishes we can all respect. But why should The person who demanded such a stupid thing be shown any respect. IT is not "PC" to stop us from having our opinions.

 

Hos - no, no, no, no!!! Simon asked for us to stop using the P word, which in the majority everyone has stopped doing. Simon did NOT say we can not speak about the subject. Some of the replies later on in this thread are terrible, saying that we cant speak about it, cant do this, that or the other, etc etc

Has actual discussion and debate about a subject become taboo now, just because certain individuals dont like it????

I will no longer use defamatory words on Scoobynet now (not that I ever have anyway), and I am sure no-one else will, but i can see the BBS losing it's main "characters" if we carry on with any more of these types of censorship/deletions. Do you look forward to a Scoobynet that contains a handful of dull PC-righteous people, with no debate, no swearing and no humour? Didnt think so.

DW

PS As a last point, lets see how the discussion goes when we finally have a Scoob car jacked by a group of no fixed abode travellers.