Major ECU confusion.
19 June 2012, 09:22 PM
#61
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what a **** yank you are....i have had it confirmed by what is probably the uk's leading subaru specialist today that the early scoobies came with 380's as standard so yours having 440's means they have been changed at some point before you owned the car so we can sort of forgive your attitude.
19 June 2012, 09:23 PM
#62
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Believe what you wish.
You also won't believe I ran a 114.5mph drag pass on a oem td05 16g on just a chipped ecu.
Or that us yanks make 280whp, or up to 350bhp with just exhaust, boost controller, and a remap.
You also won't believe I ran a 114.5mph drag pass on a oem td05 16g on just a chipped ecu.
Or that us yanks make 280whp, or up to 350bhp with just exhaust, boost controller, and a remap.
Last edited by jakea; 19 June 2012 at 09:24 PM.
19 June 2012, 09:27 PM
#63
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whatever mate,you reckon you know better than andy forrest/alan jefferies/api the list goes on.every piece of research states that early wrx had 380 side feeds and later ones had 440.i know this as i have been sourcing new ones for my 2.1 stroker build at enginetuner and take the word of someone in the business for over 20 years.try checking andy forrests website where the info is there to see.its pretty obvious they are not the standard injectors in your car and you dont know what your on about.
Last edited by marcevs72; 19 June 2012 at 09:29 PM.
19 June 2012, 09:30 PM
#64
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Show me a flow chart.
I've got the hard evidence, and you've got word of mouth and unpresented research.
If I recall correctly, a few years ago it was us yanks that proved to you that the phase1 yellow injectors were 480cc rather than the 550cc you had projected
I've got the hard evidence, and you've got word of mouth and unpresented research.
If I recall correctly, a few years ago it was us yanks that proved to you that the phase1 yellow injectors were 480cc rather than the 550cc you had projected
19 June 2012, 09:37 PM
#67
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Still waiting for some proof other than a builder's word. Even by mapping the v1/2 ecu, which does not show IDC, you'd still only have a guesstimation of the size.
19 June 2012, 09:39 PM
#68
If knowing more means posting a flow chart from a business that excels at fuel injectors, then yes I suppose I know it all.
Still waiting for some proof other than a builder's word. Even by mapping the v1/2 ecu, which does not show IDC, you'd still only have a guesstimation of the size.
Still waiting for some proof other than a builder's word. Even by mapping the v1/2 ecu, which does not show IDC, you'd still only have a guesstimation of the size.
You cant map a stock v1/v2 ecu...........or v3 or v4.
*edit* the pre96 cars have phase 1/1.5 grey 380cc injectors, the version 3/4 wrx and sti have yellow phase 1.5 440's injectors. The version 5/6 wrx/sti have phase 2 yellow 440's.
MY99/00 UK cars have yellow phase 2 440's and pre 99/00 UK cars have grey 380's.
Last edited by jayallen; 19 June 2012 at 09:43 PM.
19 June 2012, 09:53 PM
#72
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The early ecu can be mapped but has to have extra board added and only just been available here in last couple months.but they can't do it in the states yet we have developed the software etc not them.he is just a typical yank that knows everything.we have a saying in army about the yanks....all the gear no idea.
19 June 2012, 09:56 PM
#74
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The early ecu can be mapped but has to have extra board added and only just been available here in last couple months.but they can't do it in the states yet we have developed the software etc not them.he is just a typical yank that knows everything.we have a saying in army about the yanks....all the gear no idea.
There is no board required for mapping these, just what the factory gave us.
note how I haven't stooped to insults and such, try to stay mature.
19 June 2012, 10:13 PM
#78
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Whatever we have a newbee telling everyone in great Britain that he knows better than us all.would love to see what aftermarket ecu etc he has or maybe he doesn't know what's really in his car and is just spouting what he believes.
19 June 2012, 10:47 PM
#79
surely youve added a chip/board to use this/make the ecu mappable?
jakea, i think what everyone is trying to say is that upto now the only way to remap a pre 96 ecu is by adding a chip or extra board like the live esl, scoobyecu, mines, vos, etc. the esl been the best. i think the esl live has been around for some time now.
jakea, i think what everyone is trying to say is that upto now the only way to remap a pre 96 ecu is by adding a chip or extra board like the live esl, scoobyecu, mines, vos, etc. the esl been the best. i think the esl live has been around for some time now.
Last edited by dj219957; 19 June 2012 at 11:04 PM.
19 June 2012, 10:58 PM
#80
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Not really wishing to get in this "argument" 
but............
I believe the differences may be due to the pressure at which people test them.
Injectors fitted to the EJ20G WRX & WRX RA are part number 16611AA100 superceded by 16611AA101
Listed here from Japan....
http://translate.google.com/translat...Finjector.html
they are 430 and 444 respectively
The yellow top 16611AA231 comes in at 480
Seems this "difference of opinion" has been going on for years
https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...old-wagon.html
Sti Pink top feeds are rated anywhere from 505 to 565.........
http://lateralperformance.co.uk/prod...__flow_matched
The light blue/grey top feeds are also rated anywhere from 380 to 425
but............I believe the differences may be due to the pressure at which people test them.
Injectors fitted to the EJ20G WRX & WRX RA are part number 16611AA100 superceded by 16611AA101
Listed here from Japan....
http://translate.google.com/translat...Finjector.html
they are 430 and 444 respectively
The yellow top 16611AA231 comes in at 480
Seems this "difference of opinion" has been going on for years
https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...old-wagon.html
Sti Pink top feeds are rated anywhere from 505 to 565.........
http://lateralperformance.co.uk/prod...__flow_matched
The light blue/grey top feeds are also rated anywhere from 380 to 425
Last edited by Don Clark; 19 June 2012 at 10:59 PM.
19 June 2012, 11:23 PM
#81
from what ive read tonight the confusuion comes from the difference in pressure they are tested at in the uk/auz/us.
its been yet another scoobynet emotional thread!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=22702508
its been yet another scoobynet emotional thread!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=22702508
19 June 2012, 11:44 PM
#82
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What a fun and lively discussion to jump into! This has been a discrepancy that has bothered me for a long while. I have done my part to correct the 380 flow misnomer on the US and Canadian Sube forums that I am involved with, but have avoided the debate with you fine Gents in the UK. Now that Jake has pretty much stepped in your cake and have you all fired up, I guess now is as good of a time as any to finally get it all out and see if we can solve this riddle.
Those flow results posted earlier are mine. They come from stock injectors from a stock '95 JDM WRX. They tests were performed by the #1 injector shop in the US. The numbers are what they are; 450cc/min @43.5 psi. Of course one data point does not make a trend. There have been at least four other flow reports on NASIOC with the same results. Hopefully the more level headed of you can at least see where the 440 number comes from and that it is based on real data, not supposition. But even beyond that with a little math it is clear that 380cc/min injectors are insufficient to support the top end factory rating of 275hp. Even forgetting the math, think about other factory turbo offerings. I know a bit about Toyota's;
4agze MR2 1.6l supercharged - 145hp - 365 cc/min
st185 2.0l turbo - 200HP - 440 cc/min
st205 2.0l turbo - 240hp - 540 cc/min
There is no way I can tune my Supercharged MR2 for anything over 180hp with the 365cc/min. Does it really make sense that Subaru would be SO far different?
So now the question comes, where does the 380cc/min number come from? I have a couple theories, but I would like to hear it from you guys. When this debate has comes up in the past, all I have ever heard is "soandso said so!" (which matches what I have seen in this thread so far). Mysteriously there has never been any data to back that up. Hopefully SOMEBODY has real flow data results that shows 380cc/min. And hopefully that data comes with test pressure and info on what fluid (specific gravity would be nice) was used. If none exist, then maybe one of you would volunteer to send an injector out for testing? This would go a long way to figuring this out.
-Rob
Those flow results posted earlier are mine. They come from stock injectors from a stock '95 JDM WRX. They tests were performed by the #1 injector shop in the US. The numbers are what they are; 450cc/min @43.5 psi. Of course one data point does not make a trend. There have been at least four other flow reports on NASIOC with the same results. Hopefully the more level headed of you can at least see where the 440 number comes from and that it is based on real data, not supposition. But even beyond that with a little math it is clear that 380cc/min injectors are insufficient to support the top end factory rating of 275hp. Even forgetting the math, think about other factory turbo offerings. I know a bit about Toyota's;
4agze MR2 1.6l supercharged - 145hp - 365 cc/min
st185 2.0l turbo - 200HP - 440 cc/min
st205 2.0l turbo - 240hp - 540 cc/min
There is no way I can tune my Supercharged MR2 for anything over 180hp with the 365cc/min. Does it really make sense that Subaru would be SO far different?
So now the question comes, where does the 380cc/min number come from? I have a couple theories, but I would like to hear it from you guys. When this debate has comes up in the past, all I have ever heard is "soandso said so!" (which matches what I have seen in this thread so far). Mysteriously there has never been any data to back that up. Hopefully SOMEBODY has real flow data results that shows 380cc/min. And hopefully that data comes with test pressure and info on what fluid (specific gravity would be nice) was used. If none exist, then maybe one of you would volunteer to send an injector out for testing? This would go a long way to figuring this out.
-Rob
19 June 2012, 11:55 PM
#83
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@Don; To the comment on test fuel pressure difference, that is the most common theory, but I argue that it does not cover the discrepancy.
To get my injectors which flowed 450cc @ 3 BAR down to 380cc/min you would need to drop the pressure down to 2.1 BAR! I can't imagine any shop testing at this low of pressure. It just doesn't make sense. I have heard that the Aus/NZ folks test @ 2.5bar, but in that case my injectors would flow 410cc/min.
-Rob
To get my injectors which flowed 450cc @ 3 BAR down to 380cc/min you would need to drop the pressure down to 2.1 BAR! I can't imagine any shop testing at this low of pressure. It just doesn't make sense. I have heard that the Aus/NZ folks test @ 2.5bar, but in that case my injectors would flow 410cc/min.
-Rob
20 June 2012, 03:15 PM
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20 June 2012, 06:59 PM
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