Andy Stevens

ROMRaider is only for use with 01+ vehicles that have reflashable ECUs.

To make the v1-4 ECU remappable you need to add an ESL board.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Judging by the lack of tables in the ECU explorer view (compared to a 2001+ model) it appears like someone has spent some time generating the XML definitions for the Pre96 ECU (we've known these definitions for about 10+ years, but persoanlly just used MSExcel rather then RomRaider/ECUEdit etc..etc....)

Yes, this software could allow you to change the map parameters and maybe create a new BIN/Hex file to write (I use the term write, as the term Flash is a bit too modern for EPROM) to an additional 27C1028 EPROM or EEPROM daughter board, plugged into the spare slot of a Pre96 ECU.

A good way to view the maps, but shame there's no method of logging live performance paramaters or re-flashing the standard ECU.

robf

Not all the definitions, I am pretty sure there are a few you missed.

There are a multiple ways to log live parameters. Incidentally, if you were handy with Python you could rewrite the coms routine and do it in RomRaider as the source is available.

If one is clever enough, there are a couple other ways besides ESL boards But I digress...

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Agree you can log but there are no applications as far as I know that allow you to ghost them over the base maps.

robf

There is at least one and maybe two that I know of. It takes quite a bit of know how to set things up proper, so definitely not for most folks.

Don Clark

Maybe naming them would help to allay some of the myths etc. out there

robf

Perhaps....but isn't it more rewarding to solve these great mysteries on your own?

Don Clark

Shouldn't that be a

Was hoping this BB was now moving on from the "knowledge is power" days and was more for sharing info to enlighten people.

robf

This is my 48th post on this forum, how am I supposed to know better? I met my one enlightening post limit with the injector info (and look how well that topic went). To be honest, with so many loudmouth know-it-alls in this thread (not you in particular) I don't feel compelled to spend time sharing knowledge. I will also suggest giving me the smugface doesn't help either.

Feel free to PM me or start a new thread. This one belongs to Ludford, and the poor guy still hasn't figured out his CEL problems.

-Rob

marcevs72

iTrader: (5)

what a great attitude that is...i know how to do this but not telling you basically.
as for know it alls well i think it has been shown that the yank that states he has remapped his standard early ecu is talking out of his backside.

Don Clark

I think the OP has enough info to continue his investigations.

Given your posting record, you only seem to pop up here when this injector "argument" rears its head and you've now added into the mix another one.

If it's now possible to map early ECU's that people here only thought could be modified using a daughterboard, why not share that with the board members many many of whom run these. You don't seem to want to share with Scott T either, whom you have championed in the past.

As for starting a new thread, maybe that should be for you to do and maybe people won't think you are so smug

For me personally, I don't need the info, and your apparent attitude was one of the reasons I never used to post on here in the early years.

Andy Stevens

V1-4 JECS ECUs don't have rewriteable memory on the motherboard so remapping them without plugging something into the expansion port is a physical impossibility.

I suspect Rob is talking about EPROM tuning. We used to sell an EPROM adaptor board in 2005 but they are not live remappable and tend to be "postal" maps, like the godawful £50 chips you can now buy on ebay. We quickly came to the conclusion that you cannot custom tune a car "blind" and the live product was born.

Sprint Chief

EPROM boards can be made live mappable by using an EPROM emulator, and I suspect that is what Rob is getting at, without being as helpful as he could be by explaining it.

I've never seen a 27C1028 EPROM emulator though, so it typically needs an adaptor board, plus two emulators, plus one bunch of software to work with the emulator, another bunch of software to edit the files, plus another bunch of software to do the data logging.

It is possible to do but it would cost quite a bit both in terms of money and time to get all of that working, because there is no off-the-shelf solution, so you have to cobble disparate systems together to make it all work. I think this is the approach Jez Horsham used to take with his mapping (I could be wrong about that, though).

I guess some people like the challenge of doing all of that, each to their own etc.

Don Clark

^^^^^^

Well I'm glad someone has the conviction to explain
and from that explanation can see why "most" people don't bother

Don Clark

Going back to the injector "ratings" and digging a little further.

Subaru N/A engines appear to run an OEM 2.5bar (250.1kPa, 36.3psi) fuel pressure regulator whereas the Turbo versions run a 3.0 bar (299.1kPa, 43.4psi) item.

Given that some injectors are used on both, I would assume they would be rated (by Subaru, Denso), at the lower fuel pressure.

Having been aware of the 380/440 ratings since 1997, they had to come from somewhere, so I suspect they correspond to the lower fuel pressure.

Using WitchHunter performance's Fuel flow calculator, this seems to bear it out.

http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4


An interesting anomoly to this appears to be the dark blue injectors used in the latest 2.5 Turbo engines.

On Nasioc etc. they are rated at 560cc whereas most Japanese vendors list them as 600cc

robf

Right. The early ECUs are remappable via Eprom, emulation (which covers the ESL live board), and by ɥC extraction and replacement (Mines does this). Yes, you have to be careful with the chip tunes that are floating around. Most are utter crap and sometimes just copies of other stock ECU images. Done well an off-the-shelf chip tune can safely get you most of the way to the power levels of a live tune for about 1/2 the cost. I accept that my opinion might be a little biased

Yep, this is spot on. It's hard for sure but perfectly doable. TunerPro combines most of the software requirements in one place (and will live trace Scott!). I prefer direct sensor logging with the Innovate products. You can also add map tracing to those logs. The other "maybe" software is EvoScan which will certainly log parameters on the older ECUs . It has map cell tracing, but I am not sure if that functionality is restricted to the OBDII logging.

Don Clark

Now that wouldn't have been hard to do in the first place would it

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

TunerPro could be interesting, may have a look although I stopped commercial mapping back in 2009 and havn't sat in or looked at a Pre96 car since.

Would like to know if there is anything 'Yet' out to Reflash an MY99/00, as heard a rumour there is now an alternative to ECUTEK
Maybe it's been around for a while, just I've not really been on the ball with mapping anything other then my own car since 2009 (MY00 Apexi mapped and now 2007 STi ECUEdit mapped).

PM me if you have any details on MY99/00 as would be good to let local friends know there is an alternative.

Bob Rawle

The injectors are 380cc in all the early model cars MY93 to MY96 not 440cc, however the USA tests injectors their "ratings" are obviously different to ours, just like their horses !

American wheel horsepower is about equivalent to European flywheel horsepower in general Subaru terms.

There is a great deal of commonality between the USA and Europe but also huge differences in procedures and units of measure and you really do need to know about the differences on both sides of the pond before shouting about it too loudly.

Whatever Romraider can read if the chip is not writable it certainly will not be written.

Injector ratings are a minefield, the UK MY01 on STi's have pink injectors that most people rate as 550, but I rate them as 503cc only. Subaru have an odd way of setting injector scaling in their roms and its certainly not consistent across models using the same injector.

I would rate the 2.5 STi injectors as 560, they are not 600cc in European terms.

All good contentious and emotional stuff just what a bbs is all about.

cheers