chopperman

Yeah but FWD? The RS would have been a great car if it were AWD.

salsa-king

sorry, how much more is it for the STi with PPP (classed as modified).. over a std STi (not modified)?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Good decision, sometimes you need to let your head rule your heart

To all those complaining about the Focus being FWD I think you need to realise things have moved on, modern suspension and drive train set up mean that in all but a very small percentage of conditions the Focus will be just as or more capabale than an AWD!

chopperman

Not what Clarkson said on Top Gear. When he test drove it , it torque steered like any other FWD car.

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

A foucus rs for £15-16k you for real!! Cheapest I could find before I picked up my 330s was 18k which looked like a well looked after example any cheaper and you are at the entry level which for me is always off putting, call me cynical but its cheaper for a reason and not always the right ones.

Plus if you're buying one to keep 3-5 years I would go hatch all day long as at somepoint you will want more power and the hatch is a great base car.

Buy an 08 from a dealer with a year's approved warranty, drive it for the year, enjoy it, cross fingers it holds out and drop a little cash away for a rebuild over 12-18 months then forge it. Up the boost a little and enjoy it for another year. Again bank a little over 12-18 months then back in for a sc46 bigger injectors an over 2-3 years you have built a 450+ monster without breaking the bank.

Oh and I don't care how good or how things have changed the rs wi still torque steer especially in the wet where as the impreza won't.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Not sure we want to be taking Clarkson's words seriously though.... I mean he is hardly complimentary about Sunarus yet no doubt you conveniently ignore that.

Drive a Focus for a little while and I think you'll change your mind. The torque steer thing is a red herring, it is virtually undetectable in normal driving even when pushing on. In fact I'd go as far as to say it's something AWD and RWD snobs like to chuck at FWD as this huge issue when in fact it just isn't, it's a minute issue! Engines blowing up onthe other hand....

urban

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=f1_fan;10670672
To all those complaining about the Focus being FWD I think you need to realise things have moved on, modern suspension and drive train set up mean that in all but a very small percentage of conditions the Focus will be just as or more capabale than an AWD![/QUOTE]

Have you driven one?

They are not a very capable car on a damp road I can guarantee you.
They do not torque steer quite as bad as the previous RS, but it is still no match for AWD.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Driven one many times.... I didn't want to like it, but I do

Sorry but your comment about them not being capable on a damp road is bollocks, you just have to know how to drive it. Unless you are on a very poor surface or talking about standing starts in the wet then the AWD is moreorless redundant.

Even in the early 2000s Performance Car did a test of 2wd Audis vs their quattro counterparts and found very little to choose between them on all but the worst surfaces (in some cases the 2wds could corner faster as it happens). The AWD thing is fine for rallies, but for normal driving is a all a bit of a pile of myth laden cack to be honest!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Anyway all this is getting away form the OP's question as to whether he should buy a 2008 hatch or a Focus and he has chosen the car least likely to blow up. A very wise choice IMO

urban

iTrader: (1)

Emmm - no its not bollocks

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

Ha here we go is thus related to the fact you are not a fan of the hatch sti ;-)

Anyhow to the OP, best bi of advice is to go and test drive them and see what you think as it is YOU that has to live with the car on a day to day bassis. If you think you may want to tune it at a later date then the hatch would be ideal, if not then the rs might be what you are after as the look great, sound on par with a flat four but for me having the future tuning potential makes the hatch a great buy.

Go test drive them,

Micheru

08 hatch sti's are near 300bhp right? I find it incredible that your insurance is £1500 on one at that age.. did you get a quote on other Impreza models?

urban

iTrader: (1)

300PS, so yeah, close enough.

I would imagine the excess is quite high

Anyway, good luck to him, whatever he chooses

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nothing to do with that! If you look at the top of this forum and in the equivalent one on NASIOC you will find threads detailing a litany of engine failiures specifically in 2008/2009 Imprezas.

Any normal sane person wants to buy a car that is not likely to dump a £2K plus repair bill on them a short while down the line. The threads above indicate that is far more likely with the Subaru than with the Ford.

Sound economic sense then to buy the Ford. End of discussion!

P.S. Additionally the Ford is a much better looking car too ... IMO of course

chopperman

But given the prices of the 08 hatch and the RS, the op could buy an sti hatch and forge it for less than the price of the RS. Once forged the STi is the better all round car !

rob84

iTrader: (5)

+1

Herbie.

On a recent driving experience package I drove a FRS with an upgrade to 385bhp. I really wanted to like this car as I thinking about buying one myself.
To be brief, what a disappointment. For a start it didn't feel like a 385 bhp car. A remapped new age would have beaten it hands down. The FRS was all over the road, what a handful. As soon as you lifted off the throttle the engine braking was that harsh, felt like you were hitting a brick wall.
Was deffo the worst car out of the 5 I drove that day.

mrmadcap

The FRS is no doubt a good looking car, but sat behind the wheel I just think I'm back in my company Focus DIesel. The feeling of excitement and anticipation that I get when I'm behind the wheel of my Impreza is just not there with th FRS.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Excitement and anticipation? Of what? When the engine will fail?

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

Back on the engine failure thing again are we lol, there's a small part of me that thinks your view would be the same even if they were bullet proof.

So for arguments sake let's say the hatch was forged from standard or at least not built from chocolate lol oh and remapped running 360 odd bhp and 380 odd ft lb of torque, had 4wd so no torque steer issues

now could we agree that it would that be better than the rs?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Your brain?

Not really as better is a subjective thing. IMO the hatch is hideous so it wouldn't matter how capable it was I wouldn't have one. In other people's opinion it is fantastic and more power to them.

However in the context of this thread if I was the OP selecting purely on common sense between the vehicles he has stipulated would I really choose the car that every time I took it out would be worrying me that it could goose its engine any time? No I wouldn't and you can say 'back on the engine thing again' but there is a thread at the top of this forum supporting my stance!

It's just common sense!

chopperman

Your points are moot points.
In the context of this thread A. the budget allowed for the hatch to be forged which was still cheaper than the FRS and makes the hatch engine strong.
B. the op obviously likes the looks otherwise he would not of considered it. So to slate it on these points is irrelevant.

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

Again you use your personal dislike to the looks of the hatch to cloud your overall judgement. I didn't ask about your like towards the hatch as clearly the op likes the styling as if not he would not of asked this question. Your first response was regarding the weakness of the engine and its reliability if it, or lack of it lol which I for one and I am sure that everyone will support you in the campaign that they have their down fall when it comes to the 2.5.

Back to my original question a few post above. Now scrap the looks as we all know you don't like it, which is fine as we are all allowed our opinion.

Please re read and answer it...........the point being and I will for the record state it again, are you on an open forum going to state that you think in mechanical terms (no visual bases allowed) that a fwd 300bhp ford focus for 18k budget (as that's what a good one will cost) will be or is infact a better car mechanically and has more ability than a 4wd forged 360bhp/380ft lb hatch sti?????

That is the one question please answer I am all ears ;-)

fpan

iTrader: (11)

You don't have to spend to get the engine forged without reason.

Do a compression test before buying it and if all is well and the car has been reflashed you should be OK. If the compression is OK get it remapped for peace of mind.

Do the usual checks as you do on any 2nd hand car, service history etc.

*IF* and when you have a problem then tackle it.

No point opening jobs when there is no need necessarilly.

InfernoUk

hey guys sorry i havent replied, lot to read so ill cover the points I saw at a skim.

Insurance on the RS is £1400 (its the same for the montune 350 as well strangely)

I ran insurance on a non PPP Impreza hatch and got £1500, any other model of impreza is 3-4K+ so theyre all out of the question.

Basically it will be all my savings on buying the car and the RS seems more reliable, I cant be dealing with supprise costs in the thousands and the RS has no known issues mechanically its all minor electronic and cosmetic.

I know people could go on all day about FWD v AWD but lets not, ill drive both before a final decision and see how it goes but the risk associated with the Impreza just dosent seem worth it for me (though its cheaper at around 16k vs the 18-20k of the focus)

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I am confused, your question has no relevance to this thread so why ask it here?

As the OP clearly states above he is not going to be spending thousands on a forged rebuild so your question is moot.

InfernoUk

basically guys, il saving for one of these cars, ill be getting a small loan just to make up the rest of what I cant save. Therefore id rather focus on paying it back asap rather than shelling out additional money for maintenance, with the RS im more or less certain to be fine in terms of repairs, the subaru theres a chance it can go bang, really unless i can be 100% sure the subaru is safe I cant really warrant the risk on it.

also in regard to looks, i could ive with either, prefer the RS as its more stand outish but the impreza hatch looks nice enough to me.

in regard to power the FRS can also hit 400 fairly easily

For the Impreza i would look at something like this: http://beta.pistonheads.com/classifi...tchback/427846

and hope it ran without exploding until I had the free cash to re do the engine, but really all that together is FRS money

chopperman

In standard trim many Subaru 2.5's have done high five figure number of miles without issue. A lot of engines going pop is due to mods, diy and not checking the oil ect.
If you go for the FRS i hope you get many trouble free years out of it. Things to look out for it would seem is paint and front tyre inner edge wear. I believe they eat front tyres at about £500 the pair.

Anyone know what RON petrol the FRS uses ?

InfernoUk

hey i edited my post as you wrote this with a link to a potential impreza.

Paint is easy to live with and can always respray or get a protection wrap on it. tyre wear can be fixed with tracking? and 500 a pair every 5000 miles i hear, which isnt the worst thing in the world considering id hope to do little over 10k a year.

I wont be modding either car for at least 2 years until the majority of them is paid up and I am bored with the power so im looking at stock issues

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

no its not moot, you stated the fact regarding the reliability of the engine which I agree on they are not great, my point is the RS will cost 18+ grand the hatch 13+ grand so with the remaining money a forged engine could be fitted removing "your" argument over the reliability issues

hence me asking the question which at that point would "you" suggest is better

to which you replied "you" still would not have one due to the looks (which is "your" opinion) not shared by the OP as he said he liked them making your second point non valid as YOU don't like the looks where he does

so I asked you again but in a clearer term and to which your reply was.

again avoiding the question which would be better? taking your dislike to the appearance of the car and base it on mechanical terms after the remain budget was spent sporting out what you claim to be the reason not to buy one as anyone with common sense would not buy a car that would go pop.

and yes it is relevant as the OP could end up IMO with a much better car if the agreed engine issues were fixed with the remaining budget

now please answer the question and stop avoiding it