forged 2.5 or 2.1 stroker??
19 July 2012, 11:06 PM
#62
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Is it just the cost of buying the block that is a big part of the cost with a 2.35 then? Or is it every aspect of it that is more expensive?
What crank does the 2.35 run, do they still use the 2.5?
What crank does the 2.35 run, do they still use the 2.5?
23 July 2012, 10:02 AM
#65
As above I'm interested to know whether it's just the cost of the ej22 block that puts people off initially. If any of the tuners (enginetuner) could give a ballpark figure on a 2.35 build with a billet gt30, syvecs and all associated supporting mods on a hatch I would greatly appreciate it, thank you. Tim.
ps would be starting with a spec c hatch.
ps would be starting with a spec c hatch.
23 July 2012, 11:38 AM
#67
Tim farmer builds the engines for my drag car. He is ex Zen and runs a mobile business for everything Subaru. Everything else I can do myself really, just haven't the skills/experience to build actual engines as I am self taught.
The type r engine is currently being built by Alyn at AS performance as it is one of his new cnc insert designed blocks.
The type r engine is currently being built by Alyn at AS performance as it is one of his new cnc insert designed blocks.
23 July 2012, 12:09 PM
#70
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Are these 2.5 closed deck blocks prooving reliable? How much are these? I noticed metal is replacing the water jacket so how it this replaced?
I saw a fully forged 2.5 CDB short block from America for about £2.5k but the delivery was like £600 then there will be taxes i'd imagine.
I'd prefer big torque 2.5 with high revving Spec C AVCS heads. Is there a on the shelf loom for AVCS to convert the likes of a P1?
I saw a fully forged 2.5 CDB short block from America for about £2.5k but the delivery was like £600 then there will be taxes i'd imagine.
I'd prefer big torque 2.5 with high revving Spec C AVCS heads. Is there a on the shelf loom for AVCS to convert the likes of a P1?
23 July 2012, 12:19 PM
#71
Yes you can run AVCS on the yours,but you will need SimTek/AlcaTek or Syvecs,for both ECU TimH@jti.uk.com doing AVCS looms
http://www.jti.uk.com/products/shop-sensors/
Jura
http://www.jti.uk.com/products/shop-sensors/
Jura
23 July 2012, 12:25 PM
#72
After that you must decide which pistons you are want(Wiseco,CP Pistons or Mahle,Cosworth etc.),they're usually custom.
Plus you will need rods,which are standard size(2.5L),above 600bhp would go with I beam rods like Carrillo (Pro A beam we are thinking get) or Cosworth,K1,under 600bhp H beam plus should be enough
Jura
23 July 2012, 12:41 PM
#75
Are these 2.5 closed deck blocks prooving reliable? How much are these? I noticed metal is replacing the water jacket so how it this replaced?
I saw a fully forged 2.5 CDB short block from America for about £2.5k but the delivery was like £600 then there will be taxes i'd imagine.
I'd prefer big torque 2.5 with high revving Spec C AVCS heads. Is there a on the shelf loom for AVCS to convert the likes of a P1?
I saw a fully forged 2.5 CDB short block from America for about £2.5k but the delivery was like £600 then there will be taxes i'd imagine.
I'd prefer big torque 2.5 with high revving Spec C AVCS heads. Is there a on the shelf loom for AVCS to convert the likes of a P1?
Not many out there yet. I know of one running a gt35 r though !
23 July 2012, 01:49 PM
#77
Is the extra cost the £1k for the block and then then machining work? How much is the machine work roughly?
23 July 2012, 07:05 PM
#79
I have Lateral custom stroker rods and pistons, can't remember exact prices but last set of new pistons which have ceramic coated tops were circa £800 alone !
Machine work on a block if you are staying 11mm head bolts is circa 200 for rear thrust conversion plus cost of a hone. If reboring to 97.5 on a 2.2 block which is the norm then add a few hundred more. Not cheap guys.
Said it before but you only need a 2.3 for 'big' power. Thats why I am having a 2.5 in my type R. I have been there and done it all
Machine work on a block if you are staying 11mm head bolts is circa 200 for rear thrust conversion plus cost of a hone. If reboring to 97.5 on a 2.2 block which is the norm then add a few hundred more. Not cheap guys.
Said it before but you only need a 2.3 for 'big' power. Thats why I am having a 2.5 in my type R. I have been there and done it all
Last edited by Mad Hammer; 23 July 2012 at 07:09 PM.
24 July 2012, 01:51 AM
#82
Clive (Mad Hammer) runs one of the quickest imprezas in the country running countless mid 9 second drag passes.
People ask for advise on here and never seem to know when to listen.
If you want prices for engine builds, call an engine builder!
Simple fact of the matter is, all engines are not built equal. Decide what you want to achive with your car and call the guy that will be building the motor. Then and only then will you realise what things cost to do properly.
In short, 2.5s can be built to take 500bhp plus, 2.35s are strong and expensive, 2.1s are strong and inexpensive.
Also i dont care who you are, no matter how cool it may sound when you tell your mates down the boozer...
NOBODY needs 500+bhp in a road car.
24 July 2012, 07:13 AM
#83
Says the man with 573BHP lol.
There are so many factors depending on this all i think. Project creep cannot be bought from any website or any engine builder. The original thought hovers around the £4k mark.....but then....
You start forging to protect your engine for the future. So you may start looking at Mahle or Manley, but then why not pay that little bit extra and go Cosworth or Wiseco, same for the rods.
So then crank, well there are different variations of the 79mm crank, so which do you go with? Bearings?
Then there's the build, its been said on here there are different price variations, but for good reason. Go for the cheaper option, or peace of mind?
OK so that's the short motor built. Are you really going to put the original heads back on standard, or look at different heads to compliment the build, different valves or maybe over-sized? Lap them in, new seals, a skim, port and polish? and OEM headgaskets? I doubt it. So that's long motor built, now cam pulleys and belts, which exhaust set up? Headers/Up-pipe/Down pipe/Centre section and back box?
Engine is now ready to go in - Gearbox? Clutch? Flywheel?
Engine in, which intercooler, injectors, turbo?
Who's mapping it on what ECU? What about gauges to keep an eye on what your newly built engine is doing?
Right, engine done (Have i missed anything?). Surely now you need better brakes to slow this thing down better than it was. What about actually getting all that power down onto the road? Spacers, arches, wider wheels and bigger tyres, suspension and more handling gubbins.
Are you really doing this to your 15yr old high mileage car or should it be going into a nice 2dr shell? Strip, underseal, paint, maybe give it to Ryan for a proper job.
Where are you now with your £4k budget?
That's why I intend adding up all parts purchased along the way on my build, to give a more accurate and realistic figure for anyone looking to do similar. I think some think its vulgar to mention money but hey ho.
There are so many factors depending on this all i think. Project creep cannot be bought from any website or any engine builder. The original thought hovers around the £4k mark.....but then....
You start forging to protect your engine for the future. So you may start looking at Mahle or Manley, but then why not pay that little bit extra and go Cosworth or Wiseco, same for the rods.
So then crank, well there are different variations of the 79mm crank, so which do you go with? Bearings?
Then there's the build, its been said on here there are different price variations, but for good reason. Go for the cheaper option, or peace of mind?
OK so that's the short motor built. Are you really going to put the original heads back on standard, or look at different heads to compliment the build, different valves or maybe over-sized? Lap them in, new seals, a skim, port and polish? and OEM headgaskets? I doubt it. So that's long motor built, now cam pulleys and belts, which exhaust set up? Headers/Up-pipe/Down pipe/Centre section and back box?
Engine is now ready to go in - Gearbox? Clutch? Flywheel?
Engine in, which intercooler, injectors, turbo?
Who's mapping it on what ECU? What about gauges to keep an eye on what your newly built engine is doing?
Right, engine done (Have i missed anything?). Surely now you need better brakes to slow this thing down better than it was. What about actually getting all that power down onto the road? Spacers, arches, wider wheels and bigger tyres, suspension and more handling gubbins.
Are you really doing this to your 15yr old high mileage car or should it be going into a nice 2dr shell? Strip, underseal, paint, maybe give it to Ryan for a proper job.
Where are you now with your £4k budget?
That's why I intend adding up all parts purchased along the way on my build, to give a more accurate and realistic figure for anyone looking to do similar. I think some think its vulgar to mention money but hey ho.
Last edited by Kwik; 24 July 2012 at 07:17 AM.
24 July 2012, 08:25 AM
#84
Steve, its just doing some homework without wasting an engine builders time. My car is under warranty till April next year so feel I don't want to mess anyone about and just using memebers knowledge greater than mine to see what the rough costs are.
I'm aware of what the supporting mods cost ie pistons, studs etc was more the actual block and machine work.
Out of curiosity you are having a 2.35 done at the minute. Could you pm me a price and spec of the block?
Steve
I'm aware of what the supporting mods cost ie pistons, studs etc was more the actual block and machine work.
Out of curiosity you are having a 2.35 done at the minute. Could you pm me a price and spec of the block?
Steve
24 July 2012, 09:39 AM
#87
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24 July 2012, 09:48 AM
#88
Also worth asking how many cars are driven on the road in their peak power tune?
My car 573bhp, usually driven on cal 2 which 525bhp.
More recently driven around on cal7 which is approx 450bhp.
Peak figures, and what people actually use are two different things.
My car 573bhp, usually driven on cal 2 which 525bhp.
More recently driven around on cal7 which is approx 450bhp.
Peak figures, and what people actually use are two different things.
24 July 2012, 10:20 AM
#90
My full power cal is cal 4 mate and I can say hand on heart, I've driven it once. Since then the weather has been so crap that I haven't purchased any methanol to run her full power cal.
My 2.5 is limited to the above power and torque. On the road the 525/485 cal is more than enough. Ask anyone with a genuine 500+ car how much of it they can deploy on the road and unless it's on the motorway, the answer will be very little.
My 2.5 is limited to the above power and torque. On the road the 525/485 cal is more than enough. Ask anyone with a genuine 500+ car how much of it they can deploy on the road and unless it's on the motorway, the answer will be very little.