forged 2.5 or 2.1 stroker??
24 July 2012, 10:32 AM
#91
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Steve, its just doing some homework without wasting an engine builders time. My car is under warranty till April next year so feel I don't want to mess anyone about and just using memebers knowledge greater than mine to see what the rough costs are.
I'm aware of what the supporting mods cost ie pistons, studs etc was more the actual block and machine work.
Out of curiosity you are having a 2.35 done at the minute. Could you pm me a price and spec of the block?
Steve
I'm aware of what the supporting mods cost ie pistons, studs etc was more the actual block and machine work.
Out of curiosity you are having a 2.35 done at the minute. Could you pm me a price and spec of the block?
Steve
24 July 2012, 10:38 AM
#93
My full power cal is cal 4 mate and I can say hand on heart, I've driven it once. Since then the weather has been so crap that I haven't purchased any methanol to run her full power cal.
My 2.5 is limited to the above power and torque. On the road the 525/485 cal is more than enough. Ask anyone with a genuine 500+ car how much of it they can deploy on the road and unless it's on the motorway, the answer will be very little.
My 2.5 is limited to the above power and torque. On the road the 525/485 cal is more than enough. Ask anyone with a genuine 500+ car how much of it they can deploy on the road and unless it's on the motorway, the answer will be very little.
1- low boost (wife) map
2- 95ron
3- vpower
4- vpower with AL
24 July 2012, 11:00 AM
#94
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"NOBODY needs 500+bhp in a road car"
Nobody needs a car at all, let alone one with that much power!
Having said that, we all like toys don't we? and that's what they are of course.
It's a misconception that you can have too much power for the road.
Going back decades ago you had to choose between road and race engines on the basis that most high power engines were normally aspirated. The cam profiles required for race engines ruled them out for street use on the basis of poor efficiency at low rpm.
Turbo engines by and large don't have that issue.
We have one parked here right now which has put out 687 bhp on race fuel.
Despite that, he can use it to run to Tescos with no problem, due in part to the twin injector set up on Syvecs, which allows for little piddly injectors at street speeds, and full on fat ones when you hoof it.
Apart from the normal extra care required, there's no earthly reason why you can't commute in it, AND tear up the strip at the weekend.
Nobody needs a car at all, let alone one with that much power!
Having said that, we all like toys don't we? and that's what they are of course.
It's a misconception that you can have too much power for the road.
Going back decades ago you had to choose between road and race engines on the basis that most high power engines were normally aspirated. The cam profiles required for race engines ruled them out for street use on the basis of poor efficiency at low rpm.
Turbo engines by and large don't have that issue.
We have one parked here right now which has put out 687 bhp on race fuel.
Despite that, he can use it to run to Tescos with no problem, due in part to the twin injector set up on Syvecs, which allows for little piddly injectors at street speeds, and full on fat ones when you hoof it.
Apart from the normal extra care required, there's no earthly reason why you can't commute in it, AND tear up the strip at the weekend.
24 July 2012, 11:01 AM
#95
My cals are as follows.
Cal 1: 95 Ron- 1.5 bar no timing (for the odd day I get caught out with no vpower available)
Cal 2: vpower- 1.9bar (525 bhp)
Cal 3: Cal 2 with ALS enabled
Cal 4: vpower/20% meth 2.1bar (573bhp)
Cal 5: Cal 4 with ALS enabled
Cal 6: vpower 1.5bar
Cal 7: vpower 1.7bar
The motor still makes approx 450bhp @1.5bar.
Cal 1: 95 Ron- 1.5 bar no timing (for the odd day I get caught out with no vpower available)
Cal 2: vpower- 1.9bar (525 bhp)
Cal 3: Cal 2 with ALS enabled
Cal 4: vpower/20% meth 2.1bar (573bhp)
Cal 5: Cal 4 with ALS enabled
Cal 6: vpower 1.5bar
Cal 7: vpower 1.7bar
The motor still makes approx 450bhp @1.5bar.
24 July 2012, 11:05 AM
#96
"NOBODY needs 500+bhp in a road car"
Nobody needs a car at all, let alone one with that much power!
Having said that, we all like toys don't we? and that's what they are of course.
It's a misconception that you can have too much power for the road.
Going back decades ago you had to choose between road and race engines on the basis that most high power engines were normally aspirated. The cam profiles required for race engines ruled them out for street use on the basis of poor efficiency at low rpm.
Turbo engines by and large don't have that issue.
We have one parked here right now which has put out 687 bhp on race fuel.
Despite that, he can use it to run to Tescos with no problem, due in part to the twin injector set up on Syvecs, which allows for little piddly injectors at street speeds, and full on fat ones when you hoof it.
Apart from the normal extra care required, there's no earthly reason why you can't commute in it, AND tear up the strip at the weekend.
Nobody needs a car at all, let alone one with that much power!
Having said that, we all like toys don't we? and that's what they are of course.
It's a misconception that you can have too much power for the road.
Going back decades ago you had to choose between road and race engines on the basis that most high power engines were normally aspirated. The cam profiles required for race engines ruled them out for street use on the basis of poor efficiency at low rpm.
Turbo engines by and large don't have that issue.
We have one parked here right now which has put out 687 bhp on race fuel.
Despite that, he can use it to run to Tescos with no problem, due in part to the twin injector set up on Syvecs, which allows for little piddly injectors at street speeds, and full on fat ones when you hoof it.
Apart from the normal extra care required, there's no earthly reason why you can't commute in it, AND tear up the strip at the weekend.
Absolutely no reason why it can't be commuted but I think people have a misconception that all the big HP cars drive around regularly on the road with race gas and full power maps.
When the reality is quite different.
24 July 2012, 11:28 AM
#97
My cals are as follows.
Cal 1: 95 Ron- 1.5 bar no timing (for the odd day I get caught out with no vpower available)
Cal 2: vpower- 1.9bar (525 bhp)
Cal 3: Cal 2 with ALS enabled
Cal 4: vpower/20% meth 2.1bar (573bhp)
Cal 5: Cal 4 with ALS enabled
Cal 6: vpower 1.5bar
Cal 7: vpower 1.7bar
The motor still makes approx 450bhp @1.5bar.
Cal 1: 95 Ron- 1.5 bar no timing (for the odd day I get caught out with no vpower available)
Cal 2: vpower- 1.9bar (525 bhp)
Cal 3: Cal 2 with ALS enabled
Cal 4: vpower/20% meth 2.1bar (573bhp)
Cal 5: Cal 4 with ALS enabled
Cal 6: vpower 1.5bar
Cal 7: vpower 1.7bar
The motor still makes approx 450bhp @1.5bar.
440bhp at 1.5 bar on vpower, and 410bhp on 95ron. .... gotta love those 2.5's hey!
Alan
"there's no earthly reason why you can't commute in it, AND tear up the strip at the weekend."
Completely agree! .... with todays turbo design and switchable maps, theres no reason for a car not to be a true jack of all trades!
BUT, i agree with Frayz statement,
"Also i dont care who you are, no matter how cool it may sound when you tell your mates down the boozer...
NOBODY needs 500+bhp in a road car."
For the people that only ever go to a strip or track to spectate and think theyre getting the most out of theyre 500bhp on the road or when theyre bragging about it down the pub ...... could have stopped nearer 400bhp and saved a load of cash in my opinion.
24 July 2012, 11:49 AM
#98
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My build is pretty custom so there is no point in me messaging you the rough cost, you need to figure out what power you are after and speak to an engine builder. I went with Alan because of his reputation and advise he has given over the last 12 month via pm.
24 July 2012, 11:59 AM
#99
Don't get me wrong 500+ is wide eyed and dry mouthed excitement, you'll have it and want more. But that's the problem, people become complacent to whatever power they have and quickly lose respect for it. That's when it will either get them hurt or worse still, someone else!
I drove a friends 370/370 2.1 spec c last week and thought it was broken when I put my foot down. Im not trying to sound flash but that's when I realised just how used to the power I had become. A 370bhp spec c is a monstrously quick road car and few things would be quicker A to B.
Even I still want more but I can't efficiently use the power I have so in reality there's no point for a road car.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking high power road cars, but I think with recent developments in ECU and turbochargers, huge power is now so readily available that people lose sight of how fast a genuine 500+ car is when used in anger.
This loss of sight means people think they need way more than they can use or require.
Nobody has yet even mentioned the cost of running one of these motors.
Not looking to start any huge debate but just giving an honest opinion from someone who has built, owns and lives with such a car.
Frayz.
How does 3mpg sound on an "sometimes" angrily used 500bhp motor.
I drove a friends 370/370 2.1 spec c last week and thought it was broken when I put my foot down. Im not trying to sound flash but that's when I realised just how used to the power I had become. A 370bhp spec c is a monstrously quick road car and few things would be quicker A to B.
Even I still want more but I can't efficiently use the power I have so in reality there's no point for a road car.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking high power road cars, but I think with recent developments in ECU and turbochargers, huge power is now so readily available that people lose sight of how fast a genuine 500+ car is when used in anger.
This loss of sight means people think they need way more than they can use or require.
Nobody has yet even mentioned the cost of running one of these motors.
Not looking to start any huge debate but just giving an honest opinion from someone who has built, owns and lives with such a car.
Frayz.
How does 3mpg sound on an "sometimes" angrily used 500bhp motor.
24 July 2012, 12:25 PM
#100
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Don't get me wrong 500+ is wide eyed and dry mouthed excitement, you'll have it and want more. But that's the problem, people become complacent to whatever power they have and quickly lose respect for it. That's when it will either get them hurt or worse still, someone else!
I drove a friends 370/370 2.1 spec c last week and thought it was broken when I put my foot down. Im not trying to sound flash but that's when I realised just how used to the power I had become. A 370bhp spec c is a monstrously quick road car and few things would be quicker A to B.
Even I still want more but I can't efficiently use the power I have so in reality there's no point for a road car.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking high power road cars, but I think with recent developments in ECU and turbochargers, huge power is now so readily available that people lose sight of how fast a genuine 500+ car is when used in anger.
This loss of sight means people think they need way more than they can use or require.
Nobody has yet even mentioned the cost of running one of these motors.
Not looking to start any huge debate but just giving an honest opinion from someone who has built, owns and lives with such a car.
Frayz.
I drove a friends 370/370 2.1 spec c last week and thought it was broken when I put my foot down. Im not trying to sound flash but that's when I realised just how used to the power I had become. A 370bhp spec c is a monstrously quick road car and few things would be quicker A to B.
Even I still want more but I can't efficiently use the power I have so in reality there's no point for a road car.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking high power road cars, but I think with recent developments in ECU and turbochargers, huge power is now so readily available that people lose sight of how fast a genuine 500+ car is when used in anger.
This loss of sight means people think they need way more than they can use or require.
Nobody has yet even mentioned the cost of running one of these motors.
Not looking to start any huge debate but just giving an honest opinion from someone who has built, owns and lives with such a car.
Frayz.
I have "only" 470ish but I've quickly learned two things.
1) You get used to what you've got
2) Driving a high powered car is as much about temperament and judgement as skill. You certainly don't don't everywhere at full throttle! You don't even need half to be making progress that'll attract the attention of the old bill!
Anyway, that's a bit off topic. I'm still going with the 2.5 as the better option at sub 500 for road use!
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 24 July 2012 at 12:27 PM.
24 July 2012, 01:03 PM
#101
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Don't get me wrong 500+ is wide eyed and dry mouthed excitement, you'll have it and want more. But that's the problem, people become complacent to whatever power they have and quickly lose respect for it. That's when it will either get them hurt or worse still, someone else!
I drove a friends 370/370 2.1 spec c last week and thought it was broken when I put my foot down. Im not trying to sound flash but that's when I realised just how used to the power I had become. A 370bhp spec c is a monstrously quick road car and few things would be quicker A to B.
Even I still want more but I can't efficiently use the power I have so in reality there's no point for a road car.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking high power road cars, but I think with recent developments in ECU and turbochargers, huge power is now so readily available that people lose sight of how fast a genuine 500+ car is when used in anger.
This loss of sight means people think they need way more than they can use or require.
Nobody has yet even mentioned the cost of running one of these motors.
Not looking to start any huge debate but just giving an honest opinion from someone who has built, owns and lives with such a car.
Frayz.
How does 3mpg sound on an "sometimes" angrily used 500bhp motor.
I drove a friends 370/370 2.1 spec c last week and thought it was broken when I put my foot down. Im not trying to sound flash but that's when I realised just how used to the power I had become. A 370bhp spec c is a monstrously quick road car and few things would be quicker A to B.
Even I still want more but I can't efficiently use the power I have so in reality there's no point for a road car.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking high power road cars, but I think with recent developments in ECU and turbochargers, huge power is now so readily available that people lose sight of how fast a genuine 500+ car is when used in anger.
This loss of sight means people think they need way more than they can use or require.
Nobody has yet even mentioned the cost of running one of these motors.
Not looking to start any huge debate but just giving an honest opinion from someone who has built, owns and lives with such a car.
Frayz.
How does 3mpg sound on an "sometimes" angrily used 500bhp motor.
Last edited by stevep360; 24 July 2012 at 01:05 PM.
24 July 2012, 01:29 PM
#102
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Correct Alan, my point is that although the car may have made 687bhp it's not used to any extent like that on the road. Reason being, you can very rarely deploy that kind of power on the public highway without being slowed by, a bend, traffic, police, etc etc.
Absolutely no reason why it can't be commuted but I think people have a misconception that all the big HP cars drive around regularly on the road with race gas and full power maps.
When the reality is quite different.
Absolutely no reason why it can't be commuted but I think people have a misconception that all the big HP cars drive around regularly on the road with race gas and full power maps.
When the reality is quite different.
It also depends a lot on where you live and where you go.
I commute 25 miles to the garage every day, and there are a couple of spots where you can pretty much let rip if you need some adrenaline to kick the day off.
Like this morning in fact!
If you live in London you really need to be thinking in terms of track use to make sense of it.
Honestly, if you think we're mad when it comes to Scoobies, you should meet some of my Biker customers!
26 July 2012, 06:43 PM
#106
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But I digress...
My vote is for 2.1 for road use. Bang for buck, economical off-boost (28mpg), decent turbo rush on-boost, legs well above 7k rpm, cdb means piece of mind, and the ability to go rotated one day when fanboys are driving 400bhp Focus STs straight off dealer forecourts.
26 July 2012, 08:45 PM
#107
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28 July 2012, 09:10 AM
#109
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I don't think 500+ is too much for the road personally, the first time i went out in my Enginetuner 2.1 i was shocked by how brutal it was (coming from a 436bhp 2.5) but i soon found it becoming 'normal' again and it doesn't feel that fast any more, don't get me wrong i know its quick im just used to it! The only time its a bit of a handful is when its wet and then it spins all 4 up without breaking a sweat! If i was making the choice again i would pick a 2.1 over the 2.5 every time, 2.5 is a nice drive but the way the power comes in on the 2.1 is very addictive =)
28 July 2012, 10:01 AM
#110
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I don't think 500+ is too much for the road personally, the first time i went out in my Enginetuner 2.1 i was shocked by how brutal it was (coming from a 436bhp 2.5) but i soon found it becoming 'normal' again and it doesn't feel that fast any more, don't get me wrong i know its quick im just used to it! The only time its a bit of a handful is when its wet and then it spins all 4 up without breaking a sweat! If i was making the choice again i would pick a 2.1 over the 2.5 every time, 2.5 is a nice drive but the way the power comes in on the 2.1 is very addictive =)
29 July 2012, 05:57 PM
#112
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I'm also at this crossroad. 2.5 or cdb 2.1. I'm aiming for at least 400hp at the first step.
The car is a weekend and track car so I want good spool up. And I want a long lasting reliable block.
Going for a sc42 billet or sc46 billet. Depends on witch block I chose.
The car is a weekend and track car so I want good spool up. And I want a long lasting reliable block.
Going for a sc42 billet or sc46 billet. Depends on witch block I chose.
05 April 2013, 08:42 PM
#116
2.5 forged engine. Assembled by Subaru4You. Comprises Mahle pistons, Manley Rods, ACL race main/big end bearings. Modified oil pump, Power enterprise uprated timing belt.
Silkolene pro s 10/50 oil
H&S Equal Length Headers (ceramic coated)
H&S Uppipe (ceramic coated)
H&S Twisted downpipe (ceramic coated)
RCM 340 fuel pump
FueLab Fuel Regulator
Simtek ECU with anti-lag & launch control
Simtek mapped by Duncan at Racedynamix
Turbo Dynamics MD555 Turbo (ceramic coated)
Power Enterprise 800cc injectors
NGK PFR7B (0.6 gap)
APS 725DR Front Mount Intercooler (black)
Custom FMIC Pipe work for twisted turbo
Relocated water spray system to FMIC
RCM 80mm induction kit
RCM Ultra Lightweight Pulleys
RCM Inlet manifold spacers
Carl Davey header tank insulators
Throttle body bypass mod
Apexi AVC-R (for display purposes)
Denso 3 port boost solenoid
Custom catch can system: Ratsport stainless steel catch can (venting PCV & heads); custom drain/tap; 19mm breather to rear of car
Zerosports Cool Radiator
Zerosports Cool Thermo
Subaru modified fuel rails (01/02 mod)
Silkolene pro s 10/50 oil
H&S Equal Length Headers (ceramic coated)
H&S Uppipe (ceramic coated)
H&S Twisted downpipe (ceramic coated)
RCM 340 fuel pump
FueLab Fuel Regulator
Simtek ECU with anti-lag & launch control
Simtek mapped by Duncan at Racedynamix
Turbo Dynamics MD555 Turbo (ceramic coated)
Power Enterprise 800cc injectors
NGK PFR7B (0.6 gap)
APS 725DR Front Mount Intercooler (black)
Custom FMIC Pipe work for twisted turbo
Relocated water spray system to FMIC
RCM 80mm induction kit
RCM Ultra Lightweight Pulleys
RCM Inlet manifold spacers
Carl Davey header tank insulators
Throttle body bypass mod
Apexi AVC-R (for display purposes)
Denso 3 port boost solenoid
Custom catch can system: Ratsport stainless steel catch can (venting PCV & heads); custom drain/tap; 19mm breather to rear of car
Zerosports Cool Radiator
Zerosports Cool Thermo
Subaru modified fuel rails (01/02 mod)
06 April 2013, 02:42 PM
#120
Is that on a 2.1 or 2.5 mate? The billet t will be great I'm sure,yes bigger injectors will be a must in fact with that turbo I think i'd be looking at 1000cc,I love the grunt and the torque of the 2.5 in my car,it's a great road car but equally sorted for trackdays.