Discount for cash morally wrong?
25 July 2012, 12:02 PM
#152
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Ok, i'll run with it. So why is it ok in your eyes for everyone around you who isn't PAYE to syphon off their unofficial "entitlement"? I don't get it. I pay loads of tax, fair and square. Why must it apply only to those people who cannot avoid it? Why do you see it as perfectly acceptable? You're subsidising them if what you say is true.
25 July 2012, 12:05 PM
#153
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Your distinction is of course correct, i mean evasion yes. It's a grey area, mostly because a lot of rich people can access tax avoidance schemes, you're right. And politics and wealth are intricately linked, always have been, always will be. For every Jimmy Carr exposed there's probably 1,000 more hoping their affairs aren't investigated.
25 July 2012, 12:17 PM
#154
Your distinction is of course correct, i mean evasion yes. It's a grey area, mostly because a lot of rich people can access tax avoidance schemes, you're right. And politics and wealth are intricately linked, always have been, always will be. For every Jimmy Carr exposed there's probably 1,000 more hoping their affairs aren't investigated.
You need a job done, the person doing the job says its £1,000 + VAT
But.......pay cash and it'll be £900
What would you do
25 July 2012, 12:33 PM
#155
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Trust me i do undestand the maths. I'd be lying myself if i said i hadn't paid a cash price, but most tradesmen i've used have said cash or cheque doesn't matter, same price, so i assume tax evasion isn't the goal.
It's one of those things that until/unless everybody started declaring their full income, then it's never going to happen. And while that's the case, YOU are subsidising their theft. You don't like the word i know, who would, but that's what it is, theft. But the mindset is that it's totally acceptable, one of the perks of being self-employed. And yet these people are happy to moralise on all sorts of other topics. Shame on them.
It's one of those things that until/unless everybody started declaring their full income, then it's never going to happen. And while that's the case, YOU are subsidising their theft. You don't like the word i know, who would, but that's what it is, theft. But the mindset is that it's totally acceptable, one of the perks of being self-employed. And yet these people are happy to moralise on all sorts of other topics. Shame on them.
25 July 2012, 05:34 PM
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Chip
25 July 2012, 06:24 PM
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I'd be more pissed off about the HUGE companies that pay very little tax rather than pikey down the street that can avoid the odd few quid here and there. Go chase phillip greene.
As for an MP lecturing on morals, he can go **** himself!
Call me what you will, but i'd pay cash for a discount. Go have a cry about it.
As for an MP lecturing on morals, he can go **** himself!
Call me what you will, but i'd pay cash for a discount. Go have a cry about it.
25 July 2012, 07:02 PM
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2. A new business, even a simple one man band has start up costs, expenses, and in Marc case it would seem training costs. These would be netted off before any taxable amount was worked out.
3. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a cash payment, it is after all the national currency. (Although like you I do now get paid by BACS more often than not. Older folk still prefer cheques, and they don't tend to bounce!)
So even if Marc thought he was doing 'cash in hand' jobs, the reality is he would not be due to pay any tax in year 1, indeed may even be able to claim a small refund!
. I don't see the problem with declaring earnings as, as this shows, you get a refund if you're entitled to it.
25 July 2012, 07:30 PM
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I don't know if many of you are aware that banks charge for the priviledge of putting cash into your business account. Maybe if that was scrapped tradesmen wouldn't "forget" to put the cash in the bank.
25 July 2012, 07:33 PM
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Interesting that people argue over a few extra pounds here and there saved by people with little money and ignore billions saved by the wealthy through avoidance schemes, and off shore companies that use a lack of transparency to hide what is effectively fraud on a huge scale. In the scheme of things a few cash in hand jobs IS meaningless, I know a handful of people who have evaded millions in tax and there is not a thing HMRC can do about it. Barclays and their 113 million tax bill adds up to a lot more immorality than a builder doing a job on a Saturday for cash but lets keep arguing about the local builder and ignore the real problems. Legality and morality are not the same thing, bankers are living proof.
25 July 2012, 07:36 PM
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25 July 2012, 07:45 PM
#167
All any self employed person needs is a good accountant, cash in hand is self- defeating.
A good accountants job is to make sure you pay as little tax as possible and stay within the rules.
Mine got me a brand new subaru and a fat rebate.
The way i looked at it was, is it worth £50 or £100 here and there for the hastle and eventual cost, as well as a conviction for fraud, which is one of the worst things you can have on your record, and will follow you everywhere and really screw you finacially for the forseeable future.
NO!!
A good accountants job is to make sure you pay as little tax as possible and stay within the rules.
Mine got me a brand new subaru and a fat rebate.
The way i looked at it was, is it worth £50 or £100 here and there for the hastle and eventual cost, as well as a conviction for fraud, which is one of the worst things you can have on your record, and will follow you everywhere and really screw you finacially for the forseeable future.
NO!!
25 July 2012, 08:22 PM
#168
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As for NI, I pay a weekly rate of about £2.50 on class 2's and then class 4's (I think currently 8%) on any profit I make, which is now bundled into the tax payment in Jan/July.
How do you not pay any NI?
Retired?
25 July 2012, 08:24 PM
#169
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All any self employed person needs is a good accountant, cash in hand is self- defeating.
A good accountants job is to make sure you pay as little tax as possible and stay within the rules.
Mine got me a brand new subaru and a fat rebate.
The way i looked at it was, is it worth £50 or £100 here and there for the hastle and eventual cost, as well as a conviction for fraud, which is one of the worst things you can have on your record, and will follow you everywhere and really screw you finacially for the forseeable future.
NO!!
A good accountants job is to make sure you pay as little tax as possible and stay within the rules.
Mine got me a brand new subaru and a fat rebate.
The way i looked at it was, is it worth £50 or £100 here and there for the hastle and eventual cost, as well as a conviction for fraud, which is one of the worst things you can have on your record, and will follow you everywhere and really screw you finacially for the forseeable future.
NO!!
However, some accountants save you more money than others.
Ask me how I know.....
25 July 2012, 08:31 PM
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25 July 2012, 08:34 PM
#171
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A fairly cheap book 101 ways to pay less tax 2012/13 which covers PAYE, self employed, businesses etc.
25 July 2012, 09:51 PM
#172
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1. Everyone has a tax code, and therefore an amount they can earn before any tax is due.
2. A new business, even a simple one man band has start up costs, expenses, and in Marc case it would seem training costs. These would be netted off before any taxable amount was worked out.
3. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a cash payment, it is after all the national currency. (Although like you I do now get paid by BACS more often than not. Older folk still prefer cheques, and they don't tend to bounce!)
So even if Marc thought he was doing 'cash in hand' jobs, the reality is he would not be due to pay any tax in year 1, indeed may even be able to claim a small refund!
2. A new business, even a simple one man band has start up costs, expenses, and in Marc case it would seem training costs. These would be netted off before any taxable amount was worked out.
3. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a cash payment, it is after all the national currency. (Although like you I do now get paid by BACS more often than not. Older folk still prefer cheques, and they don't tend to bounce!)
So even if Marc thought he was doing 'cash in hand' jobs, the reality is he would not be due to pay any tax in year 1, indeed may even be able to claim a small refund!
oh and scoobnet discount is mates rates and cash only...
25 July 2012, 10:07 PM
#173
I sign off invoices frequently where discount is offered for prompt payment - is that immoral?? contractor is offering a discounted rate to aid his cashflow and avoid late payments from his customer.
Suggesting that he knocks off 20% and you'll square him up with cash is a different matter, that is evidently suggesting that he witholds the amount he should be declaring as VAT.
The other angle is that most businesses are getting it a bit tighter than they were 3 or 4 years ago. A single late payment to a supplier, your credit facilities are withdrawn and it becomes payment in advance or payment on collection, it very quickly makes cashflow a bit of a nightmare.
Suggesting that he knocks off 20% and you'll square him up with cash is a different matter, that is evidently suggesting that he witholds the amount he should be declaring as VAT.
The other angle is that most businesses are getting it a bit tighter than they were 3 or 4 years ago. A single late payment to a supplier, your credit facilities are withdrawn and it becomes payment in advance or payment on collection, it very quickly makes cashflow a bit of a nightmare.
25 July 2012, 11:08 PM
#174
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A discount for prompt payment is absolutely not comparable to taking cash with the intention of evading tax.
I refuse to be seduced my stories of "it's tough out there" to condone such behaviour.
I refuse to be seduced my stories of "it's tough out there" to condone such behaviour.
26 July 2012, 12:18 AM
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Paying tradesmen cash in hand morally wrong - minister
In my opinion it is wrong, but I can understand why it is more likely to happen now given the austerity measures, higher levels of taxation and the fact people just don't have as much money available.
I think also most people feel that their taxes are not being spent wisely and that the austerity measures are having little effect something the public borrowing and growth figures would seem to support and something even the IMF are urging the UK government have a rethink over.
I guess all these things make people feel like getting what they can for themselves to compensate for what is being taken from them for what they see as no good reason.
Discuss.
In my opinion it is wrong, but I can understand why it is more likely to happen now given the austerity measures, higher levels of taxation and the fact people just don't have as much money available.
I think also most people feel that their taxes are not being spent wisely and that the austerity measures are having little effect something the public borrowing and growth figures would seem to support and something even the IMF are urging the UK government have a rethink over.
I guess all these things make people feel like getting what they can for themselves to compensate for what is being taken from them for what they see as no good reason.
Discuss.
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