I don't really want to get into it on this thread , it's more appropriate for the new mapping section sn is getting
I think there are quite a few misguided views on DIY mapping And DIY blow ups yes you could effectively get a cable , software ,laptop and map your car , I very much doubt many have done just that and if they did they deserve what they get and the type of person that would do that is the same type that would be playing at drifting in McDonald's and right the car off anyway
Do you really think I got a cable and mapped my car ?
No , I think jura on here mentioned it to me first so I started to look into it
I think it was probably about a Month after I had been researching and trying to find out as much as I could untill I even plugged a cable in and I started very very minor , similar to say a ppp map maybe not even that
Then over the weeks tweaked a bit here tried this and that ,
Learning to maf scale , log and use spreadsheets , sort defs out because you've not got one , apply patches , I've lost count of the hours I've spent
And I'm genuine when I say I'm not that bright
So if you believe I've just got a cable mate you carry on believe it
But trust me when I say easy I mean I can do it (sort off)
I don't mean I can do it because I'm **** hot , I mean I'm stupid
So it can't be that hard
So mate that's basically it , yep I know nothing , but look who you comparing me against , me in my shed and my £20 cable and you and Andy forest
Mmmm i think your comparison is a little out lol and your also correct the tenth mapper in the country is better than me
Don't forget I'm right at the bottom as low as you can get in the world of mapping , but on the plus side there's plenty to be learning to move up eh

 

well done toneh, you've done well in my opinion,for taking a look into mapping yourself,as you've said lots of times its not rocket science and everything can be just learned. this thread has been interesting. your never gonna convince everyone so dont try haha. i live in south of ireland and trust me i wouldnt let anyone here map my car anymore. had a few bad experiences with so called tuners who are just bluffers in my opinion,took my money and cars were never great after.id be very interested in learning more of what you have done with your own car,so hopefully you will put up some more posts with some info.

 

Tbh I'm really looking forward to a mapping thread some of us really need the info and the help that it possible could give.
For example if I change my exhaust system it is going to cost me over 1.5k to get it mapped, most mappers require a minimum of 3 cars to make it worth there while a hotel room and of course a return flight, so do I buy upgrades over a year but don't fit them get a few friends together for a yearly map if I'm lucky or do I start to read up and learn a bit about mapping

 

exactly,and thats a very good point, your not just paying for the mapping, theres those extra costs,feul,hotel etc. it all adds up. most people live far away from tuners so your taking days off work to get your car done. im looking forward to learning more about mapping.

 

CThank you for your comments , like I've said this is a little off topic
The reason this thread came about was because of conflicting information given to me by a known tuning company boss )( employee) the experience of another member who has been relieved of a fair bit of money for poor results and witnessing someone who couldn't map his own car ( and the bloke that did wasn't what I would call fantastic ) then set up mapping cars , (cheaper but not in keeping with the your paying for experience ethos , if that was the case I'd be paying £50
Some folk on here think this is all ok ( why I don't know )
It just makes me laugh when a car blows from mapping by a known mapper the response is ( well these things happen) but if it happens to someone who's had it done cheap or DIY the comments are ( well what do you expect
The funny thing is I know personally people who have had cars go bad after a so called pro map
But know no one who's blown there own
And I'm talking world wide forums not just here
I've even challenged ( find a DIY blow up )
Like I said before
Who's kidding who here ?

 

Yes it should be good mate , we are just gonna have to keep interest up and get as many in there as possible

Tony

 

i completely agree with you toneh and il be keeping a keen eye on any mapping threads that might start up.would be interested to hear more technichal info from you. i dont think many of the tuning companys might want a mapping thread to start up as it might reveal there secrets haha.

 

Lol I know nowt ,
What I I'm gonna try and do is contact some folk who i know who are and where ragarded as decent mappers , for me to run through things for my benefit and if we are lucky and I can twist there arms hard enough get at least one of em to chip in with bits and bobs for the new section

Tony

 

cool,good idea. hopefully you'l get a bit of backing behind this, im sure it would be a very popular thread and a very interesting read.

keith.

 

I dont mind giving advise where its required and I can add some real value.

I may even have some articles I have written for magazines over the years that will be worthy of stickies. Nothing Subaru related, but very topical for anyone wanting to learn about mapping, such as actual mapping, management systems, AFR, Knock, Canbus, Understanding compressor maps, EGT, Dyno's, Compression ratio, Detonation etc etc.

Your forum will be created Monday (see other topic).

 

The more info compiled for the new section the better Stu..

 

Thanks stu , much appreciated

 

As some one using a simtek ecu on a classic is there any specific software I should be looking at buying I already have simtek mapping software and cable, looks like I've got loads of reading ahead

 

I look forward to it. I'm sure most of it will be way above my head in the beginning but look forward to learning more

 

toneh,

Simple question (and hopefully a simple answer), but how do you know that one of the values you changed in small increments isn't going to have a detrimental effect in 6 months? If the car feels fine now, but one of the values you set is slowly making a small problem bigger, what happens then? Are you always monitoring the car now that you've mapped it?

Cheers
Mark

 

Mark, in terms of faults, things commonly seen that can produce this situation are:

Failing MAF
Air leaks (intake and exhaust)
Failing injector
Failing fuel pump or regulator
Failing knock sensor
Breather problems
Head gasket leaks
Worn piston rings
Fractured ring land
Big end bearing failure
Cam belt incorrectly fitted
Wastegate solenoid or restrictor pill problems
Rusty wastegate actuator
Incorrect wastegate actuator preload
Cam or crank position sensor faults
Water in ECU

... to name a few. Think of anything that will affect boost, fuel and timing and you have potential engine threatening problems you may be tuning around, that can progress slowly.

A tuner experienced with a car or spec will recognise deviations from the normal, whereas the inexperienced can tune around them and not realise the implications.

In terms of tuning in summer vs winter, that is another significant topic to consider. IMHO, before you're competent to tune a car in one season and then send the owner away to get on with it in another, you need to have experience of the way similar cars react in summer vs winter, track use, very high speed extended cruise to be safe and effective.

Not trying to put off the DIYers, but some maturity is needed to do it right.

 

Some really good things have come out of this thread, the main one being that there is going to be a mapping section on here.

So i think it's time for some suggestions as to the content and format.

I think it needs to have an idiots guide to getting started and a few useful links, for cables and software and to understanding the main factors involved and an explanation of the common terms used, ie egt, afr ect, i know most understand, but it would be good to look at it from the point of a complete novice.

It's our opportunity to come up with the definative guide to DIY mapping, as some of the other sites are a tad disjointed and assume a working knowledge that some may not posses.

Obviously the utmost care must be taken when changes are being made and a step by step guide to mapping for say a decat down pipe, with further explaination of the process for the more common mods, and what the targets should be, what is considersd to be safe, as this was the crux of the original post, that for the average guy that just wants a decat ect, mapping fees + licence + dyno ect is too expensive especially when compaired to the cost of the parts.

Now i don't think any of us are going to become top mappers overnight, but i do think it is feasable for us to get a very good beginners guide together and as the experience and knowledge pool grows then we will be able to ease the burden of our poor overloaded mappers out there so that those who want to pay their justifiably large fees can get an appointment sooner.

 

I am going to throw a spanner in here. A very renowned mapper fitted a new Simtek system into a car I worked at. From start to finish 20 minutes. Genuine and irrefutable. From meeting customer to waving goodbye to customer was 20 mins. It was cheap though! Went like a bag of bottles of course.

 

i aint read the whole thread but im still very suprised at the costs involved in mapping a classic given the very limited hardware and skill required. This is the reason I havnt bothered and am still using the z4 ecu map.260ps is good enough for me. i still cant believe how difficult it us to obtain a respected generic remap chip for pre 96 cars. someone could earn a fortune selling these even after scott t, pavlo and and marjor sarc.

 

John is correct it's not a thing to just jump into and a pretty good mechanical knowledge is important
You need to know the car your starting with is spot on
I think that is number one factor before starting
As regards knowing long term
Logging is gonna be one of your best friends and knowing what you are looking at is somthing that Your gonna need to learn
Example as its been said before , knowing what's causing poor Af at a certain point , poor scaled maf, injector fault , inlet leak
If you don't know what the cause is you could be chasing your tail for ever
But when you get into it looking at you logs and changes you can pin point where the issue generally is
As John also pointed out winter / summer tuning
I think this is where DIY can have an advantage because you can tune and monitor over a lot longer periods ( not just 4 hours over a Wednesday afternoon) you can cover days , nights , weeks , hot ,cold and get a very big picture of what's happening and how your cars doing
And don't forget a lot of folk are driving round with issues that could cause potential long term damage regardless of wether they are gonna map or not
One common one that springs to mind is low, poor oil and water level , now it sounds daft and it's so basic but folk do
The new section should be good and I'm sure we can cover all this type of stuff in great detail in the new section

Tony

 

Lol thought you had let it go for a Minit there mate
Until I read the last four lines
Yes we need to start keeping it simple and explained in simple terms too
It can be a pretty complex topic but I think if we can keep it easier for folk to understand (me included) there's a better chance of keeping more folk interested
And regardless of how daft or basic folk think there questions may be , please ask , don't be afraid , this is a complex topic with loads to learn
Most of us in there will be novices , so we are all in the same boat

Tony

 

and your customer paid the man.....................????

a Simtek is MAP driven and therefore at the very least would require some road/dyno time to even check what ever map was installed....unless of course the customer only required this install with a view to getting it 'mapped' correctly further into a build or whatever??

 

Just reading the words that are used for mappers makes me think ill give it a miss and stick with £350 for the day and save my £?????k car.

 

I had posted a longer reply but it was just another going round in circles and even I'm getting confused about what I've said and not said

Whatever you chose , DIY map , pro map and your happy
Thats good

I'm defo done with this thread now , a genuine thanks to those that have contributed
At least it seems to have done a little good in bringing on the creation of a new section
Hope all of you go to the new section , and havnt been put off too much with my gob
(Honest I'm a nice bloke really )
Oh and I've not forgot , my 3 legged horse will appear on these pages , dyno print and all

All the best tony

 

A lad I know locally mapped his own car and with good results but needless to say the engine didn't really last that long, a few months if I recall right

 

the engine could of failed for any number of reasons though , I know more likely because of his map ,

but there has been engines fail after remaps by pro mappers , but saying that a pro should be able to get a idea of the health of the engine before/when mapping ,

if anyone is thinking of doing there own remap , you are best buying a good wide band afr gauge and knock meter /det cans
http://www.phormula.co.uk/

these will cost you more than a pro remap , but you will able to get a better/safer tune

 

Do you think I'll end up blowing mine up?

 

My reason for DIY mapping a car I owned but hadn't previously tuned something similar and didn't have the equipment for would be to make sure it is done right rather than saving money.

The reason I started tuning was that my MY00 PPP didn't boost right.

 

That depends Shaun as you may actually be good at it but we will never know till you have a go.

 

Nah it was definitely his mapping, vf28 running 1.7bar on a 2.5ltr