harvey

iTrader: (48)

Which uppipe do you have? The slip jointed uppipe or the solid uppipe?

Badger_88

iTrader: (5)

I take it this is the one you were telling me about the other week Duncan? Amazing!
I've got a classic in at the moment for respray which has these headers on and they do look very restrictive tbh.

Badger_88

iTrader: (5)

Got me worried about my headers now

chrisdicko

iTrader: (21)

My car is running 521BHP currently, and have just recently fitted one of Harveys 3 bolt up pipes, and if I am honest, I was quite sceptical that it would live up to the claims! Straight away I saw a 400rpm decrease in spool to 1 bar, so was pleasantly surprised

I am getting it mapped again in two weeks, and the only thing I have changed is the up pipe and injectors, so I am happy showing the before and after graphs if you're interested. I'm hoping for more power, due to the bigger injectors, and now the up pipe.

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Is there any data anywhere showing the improvement in spool when using one of Harveys uppipes opposed to the rcm/gt spec uppipe?

chrisdicko

iTrader: (21)

My graphs should I think, as injectors wouldn't change spool, so the only difference to the spool will be the up pipe?!

99greenwagon

iTrader: (39)

i would also be interested in seeing the info.

MartynJ

Really interested in what you find, SC54 on yours if I remember rightly ?

chrisdicko

iTrader: (21)

Yes Martyn

I will post graphs at the end of the month, as I am getting it mapped on the 29th, then will use the scanner at work to get the info up.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

No that was another one, get fed up of seeing people put these on their cars expecting improvements as that is the marketing claim by the company (s) and seeing a big drop in power. Happening more and more at the moment as people hoping for bargains unfortunately.

If you cant afford proper gt spec headers then stick with the standard item - it works very well on the whole

s100bey

iTrader: (1)

OK gents

I am intrigued- I have a 2.5 litre running an SC460 billet which bob rawle limited to 1.7 bar as the motor only has 11m headstus (bought it like it) I run RCM uppipe and ceramic headers. on V-power it makes 468hp and 490 ftlbs at 4600rpm and on 20% meth 503hp at 4500rpm the car makes 530ft/lbs. I love the SC460 I think it is an excellent excellent unit . if you want to use surrey rooling road and get some data I will offer my car and we get bob mapping it- even harder spool earlier would just be staggering as I can barely believe how quick the car is!! How much for a trickie uppie or whatever they are called Harv?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The three bolt "trick" uppipe is £155. DEI heat wrapped, slip jointed and five new Subaru studs. Next day delivery £12.50. We fit here for a fixed £175 but obviously that is not practical for you.
The measure for spool we use is the rpm to 1 bar in 4th gear, starting at say 1700rpm each run, tested on a level road in both directions with several runs prior so that the system is fully warmed through. There is usually a discrepancy between the car rev counter and the RPM read by the ECU. For the purpose of what you are doing it would be as well to use the car rev counter with a comparison of the ECU figure. That way you can do your own spool tests at any time in the future without lap top if you make any other change or just want a performance check.
The spool figure on the road has to be the measure of spool as the rolling road will not give a representative figure as the loading never accurately represents road conditions.
It is important to do the spool test on a level road. Spool is quicker up a hill and slower down a hill because of the difference in loadings.

mark type ra

Duncan if it wasn't for you and Tony up at triton motorsport those **** headers would still be on my car i even emailed the company i bought then from with all the issues the headers was causing but emails just got ignored its definately true what they say you buy cheap buy twice

thanks again for the help ,

Mark

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Yeah yours wouldnt even drive past 5300rpm ... shocking.

What make were yours Mark ?

BHPvstorque

iTrader: (14)

Slightly off topic..

Hello Harvey,

Re your comments about the up-pipe not being perfect on the GT2 Spec headers and up-pipe can you pm me details about your trick up-pipe would be intrigued with the difference as my classic is currently running a 2004sti bottom end, ver 5 heads VF34 turbo and gt2 spec header with a hks full system and downpipe find the spool comes in around 2k then very strong from 4500 onwards riht to the limiter. Would be very interested if your betters the spool and torque.

Thanks

Kris

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

What size is the supplied up pipe with the rcm headers ? 2" ?
If it is would that be suitable for 500bhp but less than suitable for say 400bhp ?

Tim

MartynJ

Well the standard GT spec uppipe on this one certainly doesn't seem to be costing it any torque.
2.1 stroker on a VF34.

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

So are they 2" I.d Martyn ?
Trying to figure out what size would be best for a rotated 3076r on a 2.0.

Tim

MartynJ

The stock item is 2 1/4 inch and it works really really well on the right engine/turbo combination.

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

Thanks Martyn

Tim

mark type ra

These are the ones that ****ed my RA up mate just looked for the company on eBay but they've seemed to have vanished but there is someone else selling the same ones but if they look like this don't buy em guys

harvey

iTrader: (48)

In round figures the GT Spec headers are 51 dia at the connection to the turbo flange by virtue of a lip. Immediately prior to that they are 57 diameter and prior to that, (if you believe the old advertising blurb) they have a "velocity stack".
The first time I saw this arrangement was about ten years ago on two bolt header sets from Spec. Some time after that, flow bench testing I was involved in showed this design was flawed.The design has been copied on to the current three bolt uppipes now made in Taiwan.
The design is seriously flawed if you want the best response, torque and spool.
You can do your own research and see what people who have actually changed from the single piece GT Spec uppipe to the trick uppipe have to say. Many will tell you that spool has improved by up to 500 rpm. Just look earlier in this thread for a start.
It appears that some people are hung up on diameters. That is only one aspect of the overall design for an effective uppipe.
If you want to measure spool meaningfully, you need a reliable boost guage and a level piece of road. We do this in 4th gear, starting at the same rpm for each run, say 1700 rpm and floor the throttle and note the rpm at which you achieve 1 bar. This should be done in both directions to help eliminate incline differences, wind and other variables.
Note that the spool will improve run on run until the exhaust manifold/headers and turbo are at full operating temperature.
The trick uppipe makes such a big difference to spool that it should not be fitted without a remap.

Boost luver

iTrader: (3)

This might be a dumb question, but why would a respected big company like rcm be selling these manifold/up-set up's without a bit of research going into them in the first place? As its seems you mr Harvey have taken the time to develop the better up-pipe it just gets me why it seems to be ignored by these other company's?? I'd be embarrassed for example I was rcm and new there was a better up-pipe but keep selling the original..

Badger_88

iTrader: (5)

Anybody have any views on the hayward and scott manifolds? This Is what I have fitted to mine. When changed from standard headers I noticed it did reduce spool slightly but pulled a lot harder higher up and still revs right round to where it should.

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

Mmm i have the standard gt supplied up-pipe. Certainly very happy with the way mine spools. Also my torque stays at pretty much the same level from 3k to 6k ish from memory. Rather than peaking then dropping off. Must say i have the solid up-pipe and did initially have problems with it keep blowing gaskets at the 3 bolt flange. Now solved

frayz

iTrader: (7)

While we're all talking about uppipes and spool, just for added info, heres my setup.

My uppipe was made/designed by Neil @ Thermal Logic. I use ceramic coated 3 bolt GT spec Gen 2 headers and a non billet GT3582R on a 2.5ltr engine with AVCS.
I dont know the exact dia but my uppipe tapers along almost its entire length.
The car was mapped by Simon Roe at Surrey Rolling Road and power/torque capped at 573/520 respectively.
The graph clearly shows where boost is limited but still provides how it spools. On the road she spools quicker but its not always easy to see when that happens as it happens pretty quickly lol.

Frayz

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the informative post as always Harvey,shame you don't do a trick up pipe for the rotated setups

Tim

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Thank you for the MR title. Boost luver.

It is not for me to answer for RCMS. Why not give Olly a ring?

A number of years ago when tubular headers were thin on the ground and exceptionally expensive we had Spec, GT and Gruppe S all producing two bolt uppipes for their tubular headers but the gasket from the header to uppipe was continually blowing. This was a major problem to any supplier of these uppipes and I was involved with Matt Clark on these headers at that time. We tried numerous things and Matt came up with the solution being a 3 bolt header set and what you see today is very much what we had then but in 3 bolt format. RCMS required an immediate solution at the time and I suggested a slip joint to further reduce tension and compression from heat cycling on the flange. RCMS did not think the slip joint was a reliable way to go.
After I got my first couple of sets of the new 3 bolt uppipe I was disappointed with the uppipe design which seriously slugs spool on most applications. For that reason I looked at designing my own uppipe to run with these header sets and it took 12 months with numerous trial designs and flow bench testing to arrive at what I have today. I don't think RCMS were able to devote the time I put in to my design and no doubt they will adopt my design in the future.
My " trick uppipe" was christened such by Olly Clark and the name stuck.
It is purchased by a number of supply houses and I think this is probably the second most effective contribution I have made to the Subaru tuning community to date.

Thanks for that Tim. I will need a twisted uppipe for one of my own cars in the future when I get that far but RCMS already have a twisted turbo manifold setup that does not have the glaring issues of the 3 bolt uppipe. Some consider it expensive but it will only be used in small quantity so it will always attract a price premium and you have to remember how much time will have gone in to developing it to the quality product it is now.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Harvey, as you know, I recently bought from you a set of barely-used GT Spec1 unequal tubular headers and your latest, redesigned 2-bolt trick uppipe (slip-jointed, I believe)... How long can I expect the header-to-uppipe OEM gasket to last, typically?

BTW, I had the map tweak for them done by JGM... They - or presumably, the uppipe! - are great. I never manged to get round in doing a back-to-back comparison on my old headers - but subjectively, via the seat-of-the-pants at least, your items certainly seem to promote a bit of welcome, quicker spool-up on my 20g.

s100bey

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for Tardy response Harvey- actually the further threads after mine actually make even more sense on the theory side of things. I'm going to go all in as I think the theory is sound. I take it that your kit comes with all gaskets etc so it can be done with all your kit contains? PM you paypal details and an invoice and we'll get it done.

Have to devote time to getting my swirlpot installed as the surge issue is both irritating and concerning. needless to say we will have the hard evidence at Surrey Rolling Road on the whole issue of RCMs V Harvey "Tricky" and we can answer the debate once and for all.