Shaid

I never said it was the ideal holiday destination. Far from it in fact. A lot better to go to India. Same thing but with more alcohol and less Taliban types. But hey, i have to see my far aunties and uncles at least once a decade so why not make a holiday out of it

Mind you next time i go i want to do a road trip but armed in a Shogun or Land Cruiser.

Shaid

You're right. My mum has a parrot and a budgie and she's Pakistani. She's exceptional at... well whatever parrot keepers and budgie people do.

I promise you won't be beheaded. If you do just give them a *** (Gold B&H from Britain are really appreciated there). I saw a proper fit blonde white girl in Lahore wearing a nice lubly jubly sarwar kameez. She wasn't beheaded or forced into a Burka at all. I was shy to speak to her as her Urdu speaking was better than mine

urban

iTrader: (1)

What kind of person would actually cut the head of a living human being.

They also probably use some old and dirty knife, which isn't the sharpest.

An0n0m0us

So would you say that it's only Waziristan and the tribal regions that give Pakistan an unfair reputation then or is it a more North/South divide where Lahore would be a much calmer place than Islamabad?

When you see the baying mobs on the news it always seems to be in Islamabad?

Shaid

I'd stay away from Tribal regions in general. The gov has no control over them and tribe allegiances come first. Although if you make friends with one and they accept you as a guest you will be untouchable.

Islamabad is fine. Just use your head and don't let your curiosity get the better of you. Stick to touristy areas and just be on your guard.

I'm not an expert on Pakistan however i know as a fact that things are not a bad as we see them to be. As i said the locals have their own problems. My grandfathers village only had electricity for a few days recently due to the local energy firm making idiots of themselves. The price of flour and rice has hit the roof and petrol/diesel is very expensive for the locals. Seriously, not many people are bothered about 'the west'. My granddad still thinks Britain is a place where marvellous engineers originate from and still has his 70's shotgun and an old steel ruler engineered in Britain which he appreciates.

An0n0m0us

It's these areas though that I refer to when i'm talking about bad things in Pakistan. Surely the Government/military if it really wanted to could bring these areas under control but they seem to be allowed to just get on with it. It's this that West looks upon as harbouring terrorists and not doing enough to eradicate extremism. You hear about Waziristan on the news all the time as it seems to be the gateway to and from Afghanistan and a Taliban hotbed but areas neighbouring it must be influenced by it and therefore that way of living and that extremism spreads in the country? If the rest of the country was so against it it would simply be crushed but it hasn't been.

Shaid

I think that's a very dramatised way of looking at it. If the Americans would stop playing soldiers then they wouldn't be in such a situation in the first place. It does not matter what Pakistan does or does not. Pakistan should put the interests of the Pakistanis first and deal with problems its has internally via social, economic or otherwise. Pakistan should not sucomb to pressure from the west.

Anyway, the simple thing for the world community would be to tell the US to foxtrot oscor, we are not fighting for your new mineral wealth, nearly all of the wests terrorists thread would disappear.

Mus

iTrader: (2)

Charlie you pretty much summed it up on your first paragraph.

crazy how some guy kills 72 innocent people and only gets 18 years in prison..... now for him you need to sharia law

mrmadcap

Of course there is, after the NHS has been fleeced.

An0n0m0us

http://news.sky.com/story/983358/tal...-with-al-qaeda

This just sums it up nicely for me and it has nothing to do with the USA, who is behind the political wrangling in Afghanistan for it's own gain? The ISI. And the best way to achieve the instability is to manipulate the various tribal groups and make sure whoever is in charge is never popular.

Of course that article doesn't elaborate on the intricacies of the Taliban but the moderates doing the negotiating are just the tribal factions doing their best to gain power. Afghanistan is all about tribal jostling for power and some parts of the Taliban are prepared to fight the extremism to suit their own goals. However all that will lead to is in fighting with the factions that don't want to drop their extremist views and so the instability will continue. And the ISI sit back and let the chaos continue giving it occasional stir if things look to quieten down. Afghanistan will never see peace.

Shaid

I agree and as for Al qaeda, aren't we the west now in a roundabout way supporting them in Syria? The whole scenario stinks.

scooby2.5maz

iTrader: (16)

. Ahhh , that's better !!

An0n0m0us

Well Syria is a disgrace that no one will go in and sort it out. However there are two reasons for that, one is called Russia and the other China. They are ultimately to blame for very little being done as they veto any interference put forward by the UN.

As for Al Qaeda the biggest threat is now in Yemen where AQAP has become the spearhead for the terrorist group. The US are quite clearly funding the Yemeni Government by way of arms to fight the terrorists or more likely the strikes on AQAP are being publicised as being undertaken by Yemeni government forces but actually being carried out by the US using drones.

Charlie_Big_Bananas

By "fleecing" do you mean providing it with a garment to "protect it" with warmth when it is cold?.

An interesting analogy there MrMadCap, Asians have "fleeced" the NHS indeed here's an article to prove your point :-) ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3239540.stm

Next time your having an operation, you let that "fleecing" Asian Doctor know your thoughts!. Just don't expect your kidneys and heart to be in the same place when you wake up lol.

Charlie_Big_Bananas

A little 'perspective' for this thread - http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ch...list_Mars.html

An0n0m0us

That article/web page is just coming up for 9 years old, did you have it stored on your pc for future use?

I know where mrmadcap is coming from but certainly where I live it's the Polish/Eastern Europeans doing all the fleecing whilst here doing Summer farming jobs, getting paid cash in hand (yes our local big farm has been done by the authorities for it but it still goes on) and then they take their cash back home at the end of the harvest season having used all the public resources whilst here but not paid a penny in tax out of their earnings whilst here. That is called fleecing the system.

Charlie_Big_Bananas

I can only speak for Asians here. We still only account for less than 5.87% of the entire population.

Why are British people always blaming the minorities? "We are losing everything" I keep on hearing. If you are "losing", who's "winning" ? Because it definitely isn't us! lol

Personally speaking, I thought "fleecing the system" was more of a closer comparison to British Colonial looting in India for two hundred years. Uninvited may I add.

Charlie_Big_Bananas

[QUOTE=An0n0m0us;10785228]That article/web page is just coming up for 9 years old, did you have it stored on your pc for future use?


Does that mean it's not valid, just because it's 9 years old?
Maybe we should all burn down our public libraries too, out-dated irrelevant pieces of trash! Your a funny guy!
I actually read the whole book last year and found the excerpt of a chapter online to share with people like you.

An0n0m0us

Where did I say it was invalid? I didn't, I simply asked why/how you managed to drag out a 9 year old article?!

Martin2005

So using even your dodgy maths, it is highly likely that there are more 'normal' non 'nut-jobs' in Pakistan than in the UK?

An0n0m0us

That all depends how many of Pakistan's 174 million Muslims are moderates as opposed to hardline. As has already been discussed being a moderate seems a wholly unpopular decision in Pakistan as those in public positions who have suggested the blasphemy laws be looked at were murdered. You stick your head above the parapet there (or should that be minaret) and get killed for doing so.

Shaid

Moderate/Hardline/Extremists = I've been guilty of using such phrases myself. Many would consider me an extremist yet the real 'apparent' extremists call me a coconut

Anyway i hope the blasphemy laws are not scrapped. Used with a little realism and in a diplomatic way then great however some things are sacred and should be kept so. I appreciate many people cannot understand why but hey there is no pleasing everyone. Could you imagine how Sikhs would react if some of their holy guru's were mocked or abused?

Furthermore in Pakistan and with many people who happen to follow a religion people just get on with their lives, really there is no big 'hey i'm Muslim and proud' thing going on at all.

mrmadcap

What I also don't get is if they are that much in need how can they afford to keep jumping on and off airlines flying between continents on a regular basis?

Dingdongler

Seriously, you aren't very bright are you?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Thick as two short planks is the expression you're looking for.

Geezer

So would you adovate a law which imprisons people for dengerating scientific views? Why stop there? Let's suppress all free speech! That is what blasphemy laws are effectively doing, but only for a portion of the population.

You can't have it both ways, "I can say what I like about you, but you cannot about me". Hypocrisy doesn't even begin to cover it

Geezer

Shaid

Stick end wrong of (in a different order).

Criticism and honest debate is brilliant however a line must be drawn where it comes to blatant abuse, etc. As i've mentioned countless times before free speech is a wonderful thing however with it comes responsibilities

Martin2005

I'm not sure I agree

Why would an all powerful god give need defending with legal instruments. I would imagine he'd have a fairly thick skin

Geezer

You cannot have an open debate when you have blasphemy laws though! That is the crux of the problem. Yes, extremists will still have a go at people for "blaspheming", but you can then deal with them as criminals if there is no blasphemy law, whereas in the current situation they are obliged to take the side of the law, thus encouraging them.

Free speech does come with responsibilities, but a blasphemy law is not the answer, ever.

Geezer

mrmadcap

Seriously, you are only slightly flickering yourself.