23 years on
13 September 2012, 01:42 PM
#32
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As has been pointed out to you previously, on this thread and others, the closure of the M62 was a major contributor to the late arrival of fans, several requests were made by representatives of both clubs and the Police to delay the kick-off, but the FA and the match officials refused
But it wasn't. And the fact that everyone had their share of thugs in no way excuses those fans on that day.
After the events of the '84 European Cup final, for which, all things being equal, Italian clubs should have been banished from European competition, the '85 final was always going to have problems. these problems were exacerbated by both lackadaisical policing and an appalling choice of stadium
Heysel stadium had been condemned, and was scheduled for demolition, why it was chosen as the venue for the biggest game in UEFAs calendar remains a mystery only they can answer. The walls were crumbling, the terraces were littered with rubble, which both sets of fans started throwing at each other, and there was only a token attempt at segregation, a result of the Belgian Police choosing to ignore the advice of their more experienced British and Italian counterparts
Liverpool Football Club, and the majority of Liverpool fans (of which I am one), have long accepted collective responsibility for what happened next, and we were duly penalised for it. The same unfortunately cannot be said of UEFA and the fans of Juventus
Not a thing.....but you miss the point. We hear loads about Hillsborough from Liverpool fans, but when do you EVER hear about Heysel?
The reason you 'keep hearing loads about Hillsborough' is simple. Right from the outset it was obvious to the us the fans, the people of Liverpool and Sheffield generally, and those police officers brave enough to speak out, that South Yorkshire Police were perpertrating a massive cover-up in an attempt to shift blame from themselves
A view that I might point out has now been vindicated, with the release of the latest evidence
Unfortunately there are still many like yourself, who prefer to continue trotting out the same old lies, rather than accept the fact that you might just be wrong
:
13 September 2012, 02:44 PM
#35
13 September 2012, 02:46 PM
#36
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What were the police trying to cover up anyway?
I don't know much about what happened but it seems like it wasn't just the police that made mistakes.
I don't know much about what happened but it seems like it wasn't just the police that made mistakes.
13 September 2012, 03:03 PM
#37
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Not that its about money, but the average compensation paid to victims families was £3,000.
Compensation paid to a copper with PTSD, £300,000.
Something wrong there maybe?
I heard a guy on the radio yesterday who survived saying he was terrified if he breathed in, he'd never breathe out again as the crush was so great. THINK ABOUT THAT.
The stadium was, in the words of a report,a death trap. That never came out before now, so why was it being used?
Football crowd management in those days was about crowd control, not crowd safety. Dogs barking, horses herding people. Of course the fans were trying to get in, they were trying to see a football match! I went to Wembley Tuesday for England v Ukraine. I went through a turnstile. I had very little visibility of what was on the other side, it could have been a crowded area where people were getting crushed. It wasn't but I didn't know and once in, I couldn't turn round and go back if it was.
Liverpool is my team, but I would just as passionate about this if was United, Chelsea or fans of any other team who died that day. Every branch of the establishment failed those it is there to protect, and then tried to cover up those failings. They should hang their heads in shame.
RIP The 96.
YNWA.
Compensation paid to a copper with PTSD, £300,000.
Something wrong there maybe?
I heard a guy on the radio yesterday who survived saying he was terrified if he breathed in, he'd never breathe out again as the crush was so great. THINK ABOUT THAT.
The stadium was, in the words of a report,a death trap. That never came out before now, so why was it being used?
Football crowd management in those days was about crowd control, not crowd safety. Dogs barking, horses herding people. Of course the fans were trying to get in, they were trying to see a football match! I went to Wembley Tuesday for England v Ukraine. I went through a turnstile. I had very little visibility of what was on the other side, it could have been a crowded area where people were getting crushed. It wasn't but I didn't know and once in, I couldn't turn round and go back if it was.
Liverpool is my team, but I would just as passionate about this if was United, Chelsea or fans of any other team who died that day. Every branch of the establishment failed those it is there to protect, and then tried to cover up those failings. They should hang their heads in shame.
RIP The 96.
YNWA.
13 September 2012, 03:16 PM
#38
- Late due to crash. Please find a footy match where no one in the crowd has had a pint though. That's not the same as everyone being plastered. The findings clearly state that drunkeness was NOT a factor.
Never, oh except in May this year http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-disaster.html
Oh and 2010 when the two team played a friendly in memorium http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-26554958/
Google is your friend.
5t.
Never, oh except in May this year http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-disaster.html
Oh and 2010 when the two team played a friendly in memorium http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-26554958/
Google is your friend.
5t.
Call me a cynic, if you will, but I find that as odd as the original findings that the police were whiter than white.
And yes, I'll give you the commemorative matches, but how many Liverpool FANS do you find mentioning Heysel? Personally, I've NEVER heard one, but I've heard plenty mention Hillsborough.
Anyway, agreeing to disagree, what do you make of my question about those REALLY responsible for changing statements?
13 September 2012, 03:24 PM
#39
Drinking at football matches was (and still is) common, of course there were probably drunk fans there
As has been pointed out to you previously, on this thread and others, the closure of the M62 was a major contributor to the late arrival of fans, several requests were made by representatives of both clubs and the Police to delay the kick-off, but the FA and the match officials refused
As has been pointed out to you previously, on this thread and others, the closure of the M62 was a major contributor to the late arrival of fans, several requests were made by representatives of both clubs and the Police to delay the kick-off, but the FA and the match officials refused
And those who were late? Not their faults, but they did no pushing to get in?
OK, right again.
And cut tyhe insults, it detracts from your argument.
After the events of the '84 European Cup final, for which, all things being equal, Italian clubs should have been banished from European competition, the '85 final was always going to have problems. these problems were exacerbated by both lackadaisical policing and an appalling choice of stadium
Heysel stadium had been condemned, and was scheduled for demolition, why it was chosen as the venue for the biggest game in UEFAs calendar remains a mystery only they can answer. The walls were crumbling, the terraces were littered with rubble, which both sets of fans started throwing at each other, and there was only a token attempt at segregation, a result of the Belgian Police choosing to ignore the advice of their more experienced British and Italian counterparts
Liverpool Football Club, and the majority of Liverpool fans (of which I am one), have long accepted collective responsibility for what happened next, and we were duly penalised for it. The same unfortunately cannot be said of UEFA and the fans of Juventus
Heysel stadium had been condemned, and was scheduled for demolition, why it was chosen as the venue for the biggest game in UEFAs calendar remains a mystery only they can answer. The walls were crumbling, the terraces were littered with rubble, which both sets of fans started throwing at each other, and there was only a token attempt at segregation, a result of the Belgian Police choosing to ignore the advice of their more experienced British and Italian counterparts
Liverpool Football Club, and the majority of Liverpool fans (of which I am one), have long accepted collective responsibility for what happened next, and we were duly penalised for it. The same unfortunately cannot be said of UEFA and the fans of Juventus
The reason you 'keep hearing loads about Hillsborough' is simple. Right from the outset it was obvious to the us the fans, the people of Liverpool and Sheffield generally, and those police officers brave enough to speak out, that South Yorkshire Police were perpertrating a massive cover-up in an attempt to shift blame from themselves
A view that I might point out has now been vindicated, with the release of the latest evidence
Unfortunately there are still many like yourself, who prefer to continue trotting out the same old lies, rather than accept the fact that you might just be wrong:
A view that I might point out has now been vindicated, with the release of the latest evidence
Unfortunately there are still many like yourself, who prefer to continue trotting out the same old lies, rather than accept the fact that you might just be wrong
:To which I have had SOME answers, and some fairy tales.
13 September 2012, 03:44 PM
#40
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OK, mate, we will have to agree to disagree. The point I'm trying to get across seems to have got lost, but it was this: does it not seem even PASSING starnge to you that suddenly, after 23 years, those who bore the blame are COMPLETELY exonerated? That they now bear NO blame whatsoever?
Call me a cynic, if you will, but I find that as odd as the original findings that the police were whiter than white.
Call me a cynic, if you will, but I find that as odd as the original findings that the police were whiter than white.
And yes, I'll give you the commemorative matches, but how many Liverpool FANS do you find mentioning Heysel? Personally, I've NEVER heard one, but I've heard plenty mention Hillsborough.
Worth noting that that are two permanant memorials at Anfield. One is the the Hillsborough Disaster and the other for all those who died at Heysel.
Anyway, agreeing to disagree, what do you make of my question about those REALLY responsible for changing statements?
And finally....
OK, so you say, but I know a few fans of Liverpool and haven't EVER heard one mention Heysel.
5t.
Last edited by fivetide; 13 September 2012 at 04:26 PM.
13 September 2012, 03:55 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
I find it disgraceful that people still deny there was any part in it played by the 'fans'. You don't get a crush if people don't push, simple fact.
No one denies there were failings by the authorities but people pushed that day and that lead to the deaths of innocent people. Denying there was any crush is a joke, if everyone was standing still no one would have pushed into others and caused a knock on effect crushing those at the front.
No one denies there were failings by the authorities but people pushed that day and that lead to the deaths of innocent people. Denying there was any crush is a joke, if everyone was standing still no one would have pushed into others and caused a knock on effect crushing those at the front.
13 September 2012, 04:03 PM
#42
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To blame the fans is idiotic at best.
In the 80's You walked into a ground and you would "shuffle" in. Especially into a big game. And you would barely be able to take your hands out of your pockets because it was that tight. Oh and never stand behind a Barrier, 'cos you will get crushed till it hurts. What I am getting at is that I would be willing to bet that many Liverpool fans wouldn't have felt any different to any other big match that day until the critical point was reached and it became unbearable (and tragically fatal to many). You shuffled into the ground because there were thousands of people doing the same. But that's how it worked at football.
Now. It is up to the authorities for crowd control and to control admittance.
Where I live we have some pretty lively pubs. Outside, the bouncer have counters, that count people in and out. This is because there is a number where by they have reached a safe capacity. This is agreed with police and fire services and of course insurers.
Once a the safe capacity has been reached, they operate a one in one out policy. It works well. It is control of admittance.
And what we should have instead? A free for all where people try and guage what is the safe capacity because as human beings it is their responsibility?. And we should easily be able to ascertain what a safe number is, especially in an enclosed space where we can't see how many people are already inside. Man, those Liverpool fans are dumb.
Finally. Try this one for size. If you went to a multi story car park and th ebarrier let you in. Would you assume there is space, or would you assume your car is goign to get crushed against awall with you in it. And if that did happen, who would you blame? The other coming in? Or the person letting them in?
The police tried to cover up their failings. As did the coroner.
And now its all out in the open. Don't like it? Deal with it, because heads are gonna roll and the fans are utterly exonerated.
In the 80's You walked into a ground and you would "shuffle" in. Especially into a big game. And you would barely be able to take your hands out of your pockets because it was that tight. Oh and never stand behind a Barrier, 'cos you will get crushed till it hurts. What I am getting at is that I would be willing to bet that many Liverpool fans wouldn't have felt any different to any other big match that day until the critical point was reached and it became unbearable (and tragically fatal to many). You shuffled into the ground because there were thousands of people doing the same. But that's how it worked at football.
Now. It is up to the authorities for crowd control and to control admittance.
Where I live we have some pretty lively pubs. Outside, the bouncer have counters, that count people in and out. This is because there is a number where by they have reached a safe capacity. This is agreed with police and fire services and of course insurers.
Once a the safe capacity has been reached, they operate a one in one out policy. It works well. It is control of admittance.
And what we should have instead? A free for all where people try and guage what is the safe capacity because as human beings it is their responsibility?. And we should easily be able to ascertain what a safe number is, especially in an enclosed space where we can't see how many people are already inside. Man, those Liverpool fans are dumb.
Finally. Try this one for size. If you went to a multi story car park and th ebarrier let you in. Would you assume there is space, or would you assume your car is goign to get crushed against awall with you in it. And if that did happen, who would you blame? The other coming in? Or the person letting them in?
The police tried to cover up their failings. As did the coroner.
And now its all out in the open. Don't like it? Deal with it, because heads are gonna roll and the fans are utterly exonerated.
13 September 2012, 04:29 PM
#43
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I find it disgraceful that people still deny there was any part in it played by the 'fans'. You don't get a crush if people don't push, simple fact.
No one denies there were failings by the authorities but people pushed that day and that lead to the deaths of innocent people. Denying there was any crush is a joke, if everyone was standing still no one would have pushed into others and caused a knock on effect crushing those at the front.
No one denies there were failings by the authorities but people pushed that day and that lead to the deaths of innocent people. Denying there was any crush is a joke, if everyone was standing still no one would have pushed into others and caused a knock on effect crushing those at the front.
Clearly not otherwise you wouldn't have posted this at all.
They came through a small tunnel with a deep downward slope into PENS. Not an open terrace but a pen like you keep animals in and there is no way those at the back would have known what was happening at the front. Even the police were trying to shut the gates again and force people back in and they were staring straight at it!!!
Have a read of this http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/kav.shtm from someone that was there on the day and get educated please.
5t.
13 September 2012, 04:34 PM
#44
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To blame the fans is idiotic at best.
In the 80's You walked into a ground and you would "shuffle" in. Especially into a big game. And you would barely be able to take your hands out of your pockets because it was that tight. Oh and never stand behind a Barrier, 'cos you will get crushed till it hurts. What I am getting at is that I would be willing to bet that many Liverpool fans wouldn't have felt any different to any other big match that day until the critical point was reached and it became unbearable (and tragically fatal to many). You shuffled into the ground because there were thousands of people doing the same. But that's how it worked at football.
Now. It is up to the authorities for crowd control and to control admittance.
Where I live we have some pretty lively pubs. Outside, the bouncer have counters, that count people in and out. This is because there is a number where by they have reached a safe capacity. This is agreed with police and fire services and of course insurers.
Once a the safe capacity has been reached, they operate a one in one out policy. It works well. It is control of admittance.
And what we should have instead? A free for all where people try and guage what is the safe capacity because as human beings it is their responsibility?. And we should easily be able to ascertain what a safe number is, especially in an enclosed space where we can't see how many people are already inside. Man, those Liverpool fans are dumb.
Finally. Try this one for size. If you went to a multi story car park and th ebarrier let you in. Would you assume there is space, or would you assume your car is goign to get crushed against awall with you in it. And if that did happen, who would you blame? The other coming in? Or the person letting them in?
The police tried to cover up their failings. As did the coroner.
And now its all out in the open. Don't like it? Deal with it, because heads are gonna roll and the fans are utterly exonerated.
In the 80's You walked into a ground and you would "shuffle" in. Especially into a big game. And you would barely be able to take your hands out of your pockets because it was that tight. Oh and never stand behind a Barrier, 'cos you will get crushed till it hurts. What I am getting at is that I would be willing to bet that many Liverpool fans wouldn't have felt any different to any other big match that day until the critical point was reached and it became unbearable (and tragically fatal to many). You shuffled into the ground because there were thousands of people doing the same. But that's how it worked at football.
Now. It is up to the authorities for crowd control and to control admittance.
Where I live we have some pretty lively pubs. Outside, the bouncer have counters, that count people in and out. This is because there is a number where by they have reached a safe capacity. This is agreed with police and fire services and of course insurers.
Once a the safe capacity has been reached, they operate a one in one out policy. It works well. It is control of admittance.
And what we should have instead? A free for all where people try and guage what is the safe capacity because as human beings it is their responsibility?. And we should easily be able to ascertain what a safe number is, especially in an enclosed space where we can't see how many people are already inside. Man, those Liverpool fans are dumb.
Finally. Try this one for size. If you went to a multi story car park and th ebarrier let you in. Would you assume there is space, or would you assume your car is goign to get crushed against awall with you in it. And if that did happen, who would you blame? The other coming in? Or the person letting them in?
The police tried to cover up their failings. As did the coroner.
And now its all out in the open. Don't like it? Deal with it, because heads are gonna roll and the fans are utterly exonerated.
Very well put, thank you.
13 September 2012, 04:56 PM
#45
OK 5t, you've convinced me, LOL.
But 5t, you've not answered my question, so I'll ask it again.
Yes, we KNOW NOW that the police changed statements. Anyone who has had anything to do with the police in the last 35 years will know that they lie TO you, ABOUT you and can be trusted about as far as you can chuck them AND their patrol car.
But they didn't all wake up one morning, or even a series of mornings and say, "Hey! I think I'll change my statement today!", did they?
Nope. So who told them to? Who put them up to it? Who pressured them?
And will ANYONE but the rank and file officers face charges?
I doubt it, and those Rank and File officers, however despicable their actions, were protecting theior jobs because make no mistake, had they NOT done as they were told, their days in the force would have been numbered, and their pensions at risk. Doesn't make it right, I know, but THEY were only passing responsible.
So.......will any who MADE IT HAPPEN pay? Or will it JUST be those who changed staements?
Let's at LEAST get those responsible, after all this time.
But 5t, you've not answered my question, so I'll ask it again.
Yes, we KNOW NOW that the police changed statements. Anyone who has had anything to do with the police in the last 35 years will know that they lie TO you, ABOUT you and can be trusted about as far as you can chuck them AND their patrol car.
But they didn't all wake up one morning, or even a series of mornings and say, "Hey! I think I'll change my statement today!", did they?
Nope. So who told them to? Who put them up to it? Who pressured them?
And will ANYONE but the rank and file officers face charges?
I doubt it, and those Rank and File officers, however despicable their actions, were protecting theior jobs because make no mistake, had they NOT done as they were told, their days in the force would have been numbered, and their pensions at risk. Doesn't make it right, I know, but THEY were only passing responsible.
So.......will any who MADE IT HAPPEN pay? Or will it JUST be those who changed staements?
Let's at LEAST get those responsible, after all this time.
13 September 2012, 05:56 PM
#46
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Simply need to go back to the Taylor Report which put the blame squarely at the door of SYP senior officers. At the time douglas Hurd said the Chief Superintendent would need to resign but they'd done their job well enoguh by then.
The real shock for me as that the ambulance service also did the same thing post event to cover up their failings. that has come out of these new findings.
5t.
The real shock for me as that the ambulance service also did the same thing post event to cover up their failings. that has come out of these new findings.
5t.
13 September 2012, 07:19 PM
#48
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Have you read any of it?
Clearly not otherwise you wouldn't have posted this at all.
They came through a small tunnel with a deep downward slope into PENS. Not an open terrace but a pen like you keep animals in and there is no way those at the back would have known what was happening at the front. Even the police were trying to shut the gates again and force people back in and they were staring straight at it!!!
Have a read of this http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/kav.shtm from someone that was there on the day and get educated please.
5t.
Clearly not otherwise you wouldn't have posted this at all.
They came through a small tunnel with a deep downward slope into PENS. Not an open terrace but a pen like you keep animals in and there is no way those at the back would have known what was happening at the front. Even the police were trying to shut the gates again and force people back in and they were staring straight at it!!!
Have a read of this http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/kav.shtm from someone that was there on the day and get educated please.
5t.
So because the ones at the back don't know what is happening at the front makes it Ok to push a crowd of people in front of them? In my book no it doesn't and I despise any groups of people who push and shove as it is pure selfishness with no regard for the safety of those they are pushing. I've encountered it plenty of times in dangerously large crowds in London tube stations where large numbers of people push to get on an already overcrowded train. When i'm caught in that I speak my mind and tell the selfish cvnts doing the pushing to stop before someone gets hurt. There is no excuse for it.
13 September 2012, 07:38 PM
#50
Scooby Regular
Have a read of the quote in post #20 which is from someone who was there. So posting quotes doesn't make you right as there is always a quote from someone else who was there to contradict it.
So because the ones at the back don't know what is happening at the front makes it Ok to push a crowd of people in front of them? In my book no it doesn't and I despise any groups of people who push and shove as it is pure selfishness with no regard for the safety of those they are pushing. I've encountered it plenty of times in dangerously large crowds in London tube stations where large numbers of people push to get on an already overcrowded train. When i'm caught in that I speak my mind and tell the selfish cvnts doing the pushing to stop before someone gets hurt. There is no excuse for it.
So because the ones at the back don't know what is happening at the front makes it Ok to push a crowd of people in front of them? In my book no it doesn't and I despise any groups of people who push and shove as it is pure selfishness with no regard for the safety of those they are pushing. I've encountered it plenty of times in dangerously large crowds in London tube stations where large numbers of people push to get on an already overcrowded train. When i'm caught in that I speak my mind and tell the selfish cvnts doing the pushing to stop before someone gets hurt. There is no excuse for it.
13 September 2012, 09:20 PM
#51
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I posted about this a few months ago when Liverpool refused to play and FA cup match and it got deleted.
Yes the police ballsed it up, and yes they were not fully prepared. But I think what gets to non liverpool fans is the city of pity attitude. They will not accept any of the balme, fans turned up with out tickets. If those fans did not turn up would 96 be dead ?
What also gets to me is Liverpool fans to this day still brag about getting into big games ( Champions league finals)with out tickets. I have seen them bragging on sky sports, saying things like "we always get in". Also many English clubs take on extra door staff on turnstiles when Liverpool play away. The coppers have learned there lesson, the fans clearly havent.
Also the report has said 41 lives could ahve been saved if the Emergancy services had have done things correctly. That leaves 55 still dead.
Yes the police ballsed it up, and yes they were not fully prepared. But I think what gets to non liverpool fans is the city of pity attitude. They will not accept any of the balme, fans turned up with out tickets. If those fans did not turn up would 96 be dead ?
What also gets to me is Liverpool fans to this day still brag about getting into big games ( Champions league finals)with out tickets. I have seen them bragging on sky sports, saying things like "we always get in". Also many English clubs take on extra door staff on turnstiles when Liverpool play away. The coppers have learned there lesson, the fans clearly havent.
Also the report has said 41 lives could ahve been saved if the Emergancy services had have done things correctly. That leaves 55 still dead.
Last edited by grovesy; 13 September 2012 at 09:22 PM.
13 September 2012, 09:59 PM
#52
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I posted about this a few months ago when Liverpool refused to play and FA cup match and it got deleted.
Yes the police ballsed it up, and yes they were not fully prepared. But I think what gets to non liverpool fans is the city of pity attitude. They will not accept any of the balme, fans turned up with out tickets. If those fans did not turn up would 96 be dead ?
What also gets to me is Liverpool fans to this day still brag about getting into big games ( Champions league finals)with out tickets. I have seen them bragging on sky sports, saying things like "we always get in". Also many English clubs take on extra door staff on turnstiles when Liverpool play away. The coppers have learned there lesson, the fans clearly havent.
Also the report has said 41 lives could ahve been saved if the Emergancy services had have done things correctly. That leaves 55 still dead.
Yes the police ballsed it up, and yes they were not fully prepared. But I think what gets to non liverpool fans is the city of pity attitude. They will not accept any of the balme, fans turned up with out tickets. If those fans did not turn up would 96 be dead ?
What also gets to me is Liverpool fans to this day still brag about getting into big games ( Champions league finals)with out tickets. I have seen them bragging on sky sports, saying things like "we always get in". Also many English clubs take on extra door staff on turnstiles when Liverpool play away. The coppers have learned there lesson, the fans clearly havent.
Also the report has said 41 lives could ahve been saved if the Emergancy services had have done things correctly. That leaves 55 still dead.
21 died after the gate opened (so they were at the back). The electronic counting system at the ground showed THERE WERE LESS PEOPLE IN THERE THAN THEY HAD SOLD TICKETS FOR so it had hee haw to do with ticketless fans.
By the same token, there was no reason for people to think that they shouldn't be able to get in. There was plenty of space - if the police and stewards hadn't sent everyone down a sloping tunnel to pens 3 and 4. The fans were directed that way.
Pleas eplease take the time to do some reading before spouting half arsed information and ill informed opinions eh?
It's terribly frustrating for the rest of us!5t.
13 September 2012, 10:06 PM
#53
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Give up 5t. Too many entrenched views, keyboard warriors, trolls and muppets on this tread.
Even Kelvin ****ing McKenzie has apologised and recognised the **** that was written about the fans on that day. But you'll never convince the ****ing muppets on this site.
Even Kelvin ****ing McKenzie has apologised and recognised the **** that was written about the fans on that day. But you'll never convince the ****ing muppets on this site.
13 September 2012, 10:27 PM
#54
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Please join an0n0m0s in the "have learnt/understood/actually read a bloody thing in this thread line.
21 died after the gate opened (so they were at the back). The electronic counting system at the ground showed THERE WERE LESS PEOPLE IN THERE THAN THEY HAD SOLD TICKETS FOR so it had hee haw to do with ticketless fans.
By the same token, there was no reason for people to think that they shouldn't be able to get in. There was plenty of space - if the police and stewards hadn't sent everyone down a sloping tunnel to pens 3 and 4. The fans were directed that way.
Pleas eplease take the time to do some reading before spouting half arsed information and ill informed opinions eh? It's terribly frustrating for the rest of us!
5t.
21 died after the gate opened (so they were at the back). The electronic counting system at the ground showed THERE WERE LESS PEOPLE IN THERE THAN THEY HAD SOLD TICKETS FOR so it had hee haw to do with ticketless fans.
By the same token, there was no reason for people to think that they shouldn't be able to get in. There was plenty of space - if the police and stewards hadn't sent everyone down a sloping tunnel to pens 3 and 4. The fans were directed that way.
Pleas eplease take the time to do some reading before spouting half arsed information and ill informed opinions eh?
It's terribly frustrating for the rest of us!5t.
Liverpool fans, never to blame for a ******* thing as usual.
13 September 2012, 11:28 PM
#56
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Not wishing to troll, but why is this always about the Liverpool fans?
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
14 September 2012, 12:29 AM
#57
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Not wishing to troll, but why is this always about the Liverpool fans?
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
14 September 2012, 07:39 AM
#58
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Not wishing to troll, but why is this always about the Liverpool fans?
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
Nottingham Forest. Without the use of Google.
As I said earlier. ****ing muppets on this thread.
14 September 2012, 08:39 AM
#59
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Not wishing to troll, but why is this always about the Liverpool fans?
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
There were two sets of supporters there that day. The opposing supporters helped the Liverpool fans where they could, but they don't get a mention. I think only GC8 knows who the second team was. Many of them saw horrific scenes, including people die infront of them, but we never hear a thing about those opposing supporters who tried to help.
The ordinary people from Sheffield deserve a mention too, opening their front doors to the fans and letting them use their phones etc without taking a penny from them.
