hodgy0_2

my tenants pay 2.5k a month to rent that property

and have been for the last 5 years -- continuously (not one month empty - do the math)

because, as a landlord I don't **** about getting 10 quotes -- whilst the tenants go with out hot water

I have used these plumbers before, and they do a professional job

as I said -- london tax, I am sure if the property was in the ar4e end of nowhere I could get some cowboy nomark to do it for a packet of 20 Lambert and Butler

but I am afraid I am operating on a different level, sorry

john banks

I would refer you to http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2818/Doctors-are-most-trusted-profession-politicians-least-trusted.aspx which shows that doctors are three times more likely to be trusted than bankers. On this basis, I would then question why you think mistrust of the financial services industry is ignorant? I would perhaps also point out that the industry I work in has not required recent legislative overhaul to remove perverse incentives.

You may have a little more trouble than you expected dismissing my opinion as ignorant.

pslewis

You are .... at my upper level I'm too high to get shafted, but be my guest - you keep bending over your level

Dingdongler

I don't think so

It is a high price but it all balances out, the guy owns a pad in a prime London postcode. His rental property is very probably worth more than your primary residence.

pslewis

It's probably worth more than my entire portfolio .........

What has that to do with getting shafted by a plumber? ..... hell, the pump can be bought for a fraction - that has NOWT to do with any fictional London uplift!

hodgy0_2

the point is Ding, they pay me a rent, quite a good one

they have no hot water - and I take my responsibilities as a landlord seriously, so I have to get it sorted pronto

could I hunt around and get it cheaper – undoubtedly

would it be worth it, to me no - for all manner of reasons, off course i could “front” it like some Mitchell character out of Eastenders and continually field irate calls from my tenants all weekend.

and in a way that is the point, and go back to an earlier post, renting out property isn’t easy money especially if your margins are small – but get the financials right and it not a bad gig

oh and I can offset the bill against tax anyway

tbh if it had happened in my home I would have done it myself -- only plumbing after all

pslewis

You could have done it YOURSELF ..... yet got shafted by a Plumber??????

This gets worse and worse ......

I'll let you into a secret - my tennants would see the same quick repair, but, I would take the extra 5 minutes to telephone another 2 Plumbers to save myself £300.

That's why the intelligent wealthy remain wealthy.

hodgy0_2

but i am not going to waste half a day of my weekend driving to london for a measly £400 odd quid

rather spend it on my estate in Cambridgshire

Dingdongler

I agree with you entirely. That's why I said it balances out.

Dingdongler

You can't even spell the word mate

hodgy0_2

I know you do, I just wanted to restate it, psl just does not seem to get it

pslewis

OH, I understand waste alright ....... remember I was dragged up in the back streets of Middlesbrough!!

Every £ earns its keep with me, I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth - not, like some, a silver one!

I understand completely that £1 wasted is £1 wasted - there's no justification for it.

TelBoy

Thing you'll never understand though, Lewis, is that some people have sufficient funds to get jobs done quickly and effectively with people they know and trust, for a fair rate. They don't have time to nickel and dime every job, they have better ways to use their time, to not be sapped of energy by getting quotes from people they don't know. Despite your protestations, you have never been in such a financial situation and therefore cannot appreciate why some people act in a way that looks profligate to you. They are just higher achievers. End of chat.

EddScott

So your opinion can't possibly be ignorant because your industry is more trustworthy than mine? Are you serious?

You mention bankers (what the hell is a "banker" other than some useless tabloid monicker to anyone in finance) but I work in the IFA sector - to compare the two shows ignorance for a start - the mess the banks make of the people we see is stunning.

Perverse incentives - again you are not ignorant? come off it. Banning of fund bulk buying - so its OK to get a discount on buying 10000 widgets at 10% discount but buy units in fund cheaper because of bulk buying is ripping off the client? eh? And if you refer to commission banning well again, if you knew what you were talking about, commission itself isn't actually a bad thing - you have shop workers on commission and no one says anything. The issue is from transparency of charges and level of charges and has been turned into an expensive mess of ill-thought out changes that will push low earners into the hands of idiot banks that can still hide their charges and claim to be free.

You want to be rude about my industry and don't like being called ignorant? I thought doctors were supposed to be clever people.

EddScott

OK fair enough. My apologies.

It just irks me that the all in industry get tarred with the same brush. There are "bad eggs" but doesn't every industry have them - even the most trusted ones?

In a way, a decent IFA does share the risk with the client to a point - if we are paid on a % of the fund under management and the fund doesn't perform we earn less. Although I appreciate its different when its not our money. All we can do is take a mutually acceptable fee for the advice provided. We are moving towards a flat fee irrespective of the money the client brings to the table and fees as and when the client wants to see us. We do take a small charge on the fund purely to cover the business risk - if we get £10K wrong and its our fault then we can pay. If we get £100K wrong then we've got to use the insurance and so the business risk needs to be covered. Accountants and solicitors all vary their charges depending on the amount of work and the amount of money the client has - they do, I know they do. So why can't we?

Also, you don't need an accountant and you don't need a solicitor but people use them automatically - why not "need" a good IFA? A good IFA doesn't sell anything - we don't have any salesmen. You pay for the advice.

EDIT - oh, and PS. I can't remember the exact details but we did have a client that took the gamble on an investment and used money from a credit card to do it. It paid off but only done it once.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I have to say this is a very valid point in any industry.

For example I have a very low opinion of the NHS and medical industry due to a huge long list of things that occured personally to my friends and family that are mostly attributed to varying levels of incompetance, ignorance and apathy, combined with closing of ranks and stonewalling when they get found out that they are in the wrong.

But that doesn't not mean I will say everyone in that sector is like that. Some of the good guys are banging their heads against brick walls beacuse of their colleagues and clean up their mess, and I'm highly supportive and appreciative of that. Much like I've dealt with bank managers that are polar opposites that go above and beyond to sort out the problems left behind by others. However I'm yet to meet a car dealer I like, or find a plumber I can trust (bar one thats now retired), but there has to be some good ones somewhere.

Having said all that...I trust my GP as far as I could throw my IFA (and vica versa) Its my money and health, so its vitally important regardless of who I entrust it with.

john banks

The reply referencing an independent study (not my opinion) of trustworthiness was in response to, "How would you feel if someone posted that the industry you worked in was nothing more than a bunch of parasite only out for themselves - the ignorance displayed there is just laughable." Surely you can string together the logic of the argument here.

You could say the same of doctors, they didn't break it down into psychiatrists or oncologists, but the differences are arguably just as marked as an IFA and a banker. You can easily find surverys that show that IFAs are amongst the most trusted... amongst financial industry professionals who are not overall a trusted group.

I am indeed referring to commission as a perverse incentive. Salespeople, whether IFAs or shopworkers are not "unbiased" (I'm amazed no one has legally challenged that particular claim from IFAs) if they are on commission as the needs of the customer and the salesperson are misaligned despite all the personal illustrations you print off to show why it is the best product for the client to put a veneer of respectability on it. Doctors are alleged to be in the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry, but in the UK we have never (at least in modern times) received kickbacks for prescribing certain products.

I agree about the transparency issue and no doubt there is a developing mess due to the changes, but commission bias has always been an equally serious objection to your industry in my eyes. If low earners won't pay your fees it is probably a clue that they were too high in the first place as the industry grew fat on the milk of opaque commissions for too long.

For anyone with half a brain, when you simplify financial products to take out the structures that support the industry, they aren't complicated at all.

Too right! The idea that you share the risk with the client is gobsmacking, their capital is at risk and your charges are based on their capital, not your results, it is a win-win for the IFA, you may win less if the customer loses, but you still win whilst they lose. That is the very definition of parasitic IMHO.

It is my understanding that we do NEED an accountant to produce our accounts for a partnership, otherwise many people do avoid them due to their fees. When I have used my accountant for optional advice their fees have been charged even though their advice was not able to save me a penny in situations in the last two years. I've learned my lesson that a few emails to an accountant are very expensive indeed.

The only times I have come across where I need an IFA is to execute something that isn't available directly, or some issues related to moving funds from an occupational pension scheme where it was again not actually possible without an IFA. I would never use one if I didn't have to as they have never told me anything I couldn't work out for myself and want a healthy fee to do so. I suspect more will feel the same when IFA fees are more transparent/immediate/obvious, and that seems to be the real fear from the underperformers in your industry right now?

EddScott

Your attitude towards the industry borders on the pathological. I can only assume you've been burned in the past so created this wall around you and your opinion in order to protect yourself.

Good luck with that

john banks

Your assumption is incorrect, no luck is needed, sound judgement is.

Please specify what pathology you think I have and cite your qualifications to do so

alloy

Financial relationships are built on trust, commission is fine for execution only services, however advisory commission is where the interests of the client and the advisor become misaligned. Performance incentives are much better in rectifying this disharmony between client and advisor interests, but again not perfect as arguably the advisor is incentivised to take higher risk to achieve higher returns and therefore earn themselves the most money.

Unfortunately a precursor to earning a return is to exposure yourself to risk. Therefore only ever invest what you can afford to lose. Do not get greedy. Do your due diligence on anyone wanting to assist you in financial matters. If you don't like surprises make sure you manage those relationships and never take your eye off the ball!

paulr

........and sometimes they can't be bothered. Nothing wrong with that.

paulr

Thanks for that (seriously).

Dingdongler

Hi Paul, I'm glad you took it the way it was meant ie if you don't want some hassle or risk then circa 3% is the best you will get.

Nothing wrong with that attitude, we all differ in what we are prepared to do to make money.