Jimmy Savile
16 October 2012, 01:01 PM
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I don't want to be American 
Savile, however, only has one l. Haven't counted but i bet there are more wrong versions on this thread than correct.
Savile, however, only has one l. Haven't counted but i bet there are more wrong versions on this thread than correct.
16 October 2012, 01:07 PM
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Well it depends what you class as "American" these days. It always was paedo as the closest approximation of the original Greek sound, but no Yank ever uses an a where they don't need to. Not sure it really matters though 
16 October 2012, 02:01 PM
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Les,
without going into the absurd traditions and practices of the Catholic Church, such as the confessional, the general culture, which seems to allow this stuff to flourish because you get a weekly forgiving and resetting of your sins, ready to carry on the next week
surely only a fool can deny the sheer extent of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church - and this goes right to Rome is a scandal – and would seek to examine exactly why this is so
just why are so many men and women in the Catholic Church child abusers
My mother in law has never forgiven the Nuns at her convent school, her stories are truly shocking
and my post was in reaction to the pathetic inevitability that someone would systemically betray a position of trust (Like the Catholic Priesthood) and abuse children, would also be a devout Catholic
Sorry, I have 5 children and feel pretty strongly about this
without going into the absurd traditions and practices of the Catholic Church, such as the confessional, the general culture, which seems to allow this stuff to flourish because you get a weekly forgiving and resetting of your sins, ready to carry on the next week
surely only a fool can deny the sheer extent of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church - and this goes right to Rome is a scandal – and would seek to examine exactly why this is so
just why are so many men and women in the Catholic Church child abusers
My mother in law has never forgiven the Nuns at her convent school, her stories are truly shocking
and my post was in reaction to the pathetic inevitability that someone would systemically betray a position of trust (Like the Catholic Priesthood) and abuse children, would also be a devout Catholic
Sorry, I have 5 children and feel pretty strongly about this
I have had many Catholic friends and have never seen any kind of paedophilia associated with any of them. That includes priests incidentally.
I have only known one who was homosexual and he kept that to himself and incidentally was a pleasant personality and an entertaining character. He would have been homosexual regardless of his religion anyway of course as many are.
I was quite reasonably objecting to your extreme generalisation in that you accused all Catholics as being likely to be paedophiles. That is the only way that your post can be interpreted. Yes of course it is true that some priests have been caught carrying out paedophiliac acts on children. Not only Catholic priests either! This kind of disgraceful behaviour is all down to the persons concerned and certainly not the teachings of their religion. I did ask you if you thought that paedophilia was endorsed by the Catholic church but you did not answer that. One has to accept that people can be tempted into bad behaviour regardless of religious teaching or even the way they were brought up, and sometimes because of it too. It is the way of the world and of humans in general.
I consider it unnecessary and also most unfair to accuse Catholics in general of being likely to commits such acts. It is an untrue statement.
Many will take delight in saying such things for their own personal reasons, maybe even in an attempt to bolster up their own underconfidence when it comes to belief or lack of it as far as religion is concerned. It does not improve their case for certain.
I am the father of three children and I understand your concerns of course. But making such accusations is no answer to the problems.
Les
16 October 2012, 02:09 PM
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but, and it is a big but, the religion does create a culture where this abuse is widespread and protected/tolerated
I don't mean to make wild generalisations and accusations, but this is Scoobynet, and normal rules do not apply
16 October 2012, 03:05 PM
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it was a reasonable objection, and off course I accept that there is nothing written in the primary texts
but, and it is a big but, the religion does create a culture where this abuse is widespread and protected/tolerated
I don't mean to make wild generalisations and accusations, but this is Scoobynet, and normal rules do not apply
but, and it is a big but, the religion does create a culture where this abuse is widespread and protected/tolerated
I don't mean to make wild generalisations and accusations, but this is Scoobynet, and normal rules do not apply
It certainly is not tolerated by truly devout members of the religion and where it was protected in the past was yet again down to bad people in defiance of the Church's teachings and was a shameful act.
I repeat, it is unfair to blame the religion, only bad people acting in their own interests.
Les
16 October 2012, 03:28 PM
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16 October 2012, 04:24 PM
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Les
I am not going to deconstruct the Catholic religon on this forum
read the link posted in previous contribution
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/comm...ng-daily-mass/
it is sort of alluded to in that link
Christopher Hitchins puts it better than me
“On the institutionalisation of rape and torture, the maltreatment of children in their care, [the current pope] Joseph Ratzinger said: ‘It is a very serious crisis which demands us in the need for applying to the victims, the most loving pastoral care.’ Well, I’m sorry, they have already had that.”
Hitchens tore into the Vatican for its refusal to hand over Cardinal Bernard Law, the former Archbishop of Boston, to Massachusetts police for questioning about his role in the child abuse scandals. “Here is a man wanted for the promotion, protection, covering up and defence of people whose crimes against children are too revolting to specify,” he fumed. “Yet he is acting as vicar of the American Catholic Church in Rome, personally appointed by the Pope and in 2005, even joining the Conclave, to decide who the next pope should be.”
the Religion is run by the Vatican, and they tolerate child abuse, sorry but that is fact
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 16 October 2012 at 04:54 PM.
16 October 2012, 09:50 PM
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In Ireland the Catholic Church used to have a lot of power. Catholic priests were seen as the educated leaders of the people (and I'll extend this to priests/ministers/vicars of other religions in most countries). What they said was seen as unchallengable.
So if a kid said "Father X made me do this", how likely were they to be believed? If anyone challenged Father X he would no doubt shrug it off by saying "But I'm a man of God. I would never do anything like that". If sufficient people went to the local Bishop and said "There's a lot of stories about Father X and altarboys", it seems like the Bishop either ignored the stories or was complicit in hushing it up.
I agree that there is nothing in any religion (that I know of) which encourages child molesting and that anyone who does this is evil, but it certainly seems that a significant number of people in positions of power have done this and had their crimes brushed under the carpet by people at higher levels in the organisation.
OK, the Vatican and the Irish Catholic Church have issued apologies for what happened. Crocodile tears. They knew what was going on and didn't stop it.
Whatever Jimmy Savile may have done and how the BBC may be complicit in it isn't in the same league. I look to the BBC for entertainment and not guidance on how to live my life. A billion or so people look to the Catholic Church for moral guidance and the reality is that people in authority (ie. the Vatican) have been covering up wrongdoings of people that are supposed to be the moral guardians of their communities.
Last edited by douglasb; 16 October 2012 at 09:52 PM.
17 October 2012, 12:14 AM
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A paedophile's paradise, in other words.
17 October 2012, 12:20 AM
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Just got this in a text
Our records indicate that you were once felt up by Jimmy Savile and could be entitiled to £2147 in compensation. Just reply " how's about that then" to register or to opt out just text " stop Jimmy stop".
Register before the end of the month and get a free" Lawyers 4 U fixed it for me medal.
Our records indicate that you were once felt up by Jimmy Savile and could be entitiled to £2147 in compensation. Just reply " how's about that then" to register or to opt out just text " stop Jimmy stop".
Register before the end of the month and get a free" Lawyers 4 U fixed it for me medal.
17 October 2012, 11:26 AM
#144
Just got this in a text
Our records indicate that you were once felt up by Jimmy Savile and could be entitiled to £2147 in compensation. Just reply " how's about that then" to register or to opt out just text " stop Jimmy stop".
Register before the end of the month and get a free" Lawyers 4 U fixed it for me medal.
Our records indicate that you were once felt up by Jimmy Savile and could be entitiled to £2147 in compensation. Just reply " how's about that then" to register or to opt out just text " stop Jimmy stop".
Register before the end of the month and get a free" Lawyers 4 U fixed it for me medal.
Too funny,
17 October 2012, 11:30 AM
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Les, I'm not going to say that it is/was widespread, but I do think that priests abusing children has a lot in common with the Jimmy Savile situation.
In Ireland the Catholic Church used to have a lot of power. Catholic priests were seen as the educated leaders of the people (and I'll extend this to priests/ministers/vicars of other religions in most countries). What they said was seen as unchallengable.
So if a kid said "Father X made me do this", how likely were they to be believed? If anyone challenged Father X he would no doubt shrug it off by saying "But I'm a man of God. I would never do anything like that". If sufficient people went to the local Bishop and said "There's a lot of stories about Father X and altarboys", it seems like the Bishop either ignored the stories or was complicit in hushing it up.
I agree that there is nothing in any religion (that I know of) which encourages child molesting and that anyone who does this is evil, but it certainly seems that a significant number of people in positions of power have done this and had their crimes brushed under the carpet by people at higher levels in the organisation.
OK, the Vatican and the Irish Catholic Church have issued apologies for what happened. Crocodile tears. They knew what was going on and didn't stop it.
Whatever Jimmy Savile may have done and how the BBC may be complicit in it isn't in the same league. I look to the BBC for entertainment and not guidance on how to live my life. A billion or so people look to the Catholic Church for moral guidance and the reality is that people in authority (ie. the Vatican) have been covering up wrongdoings of people that are supposed to be the moral guardians of their communities.
In Ireland the Catholic Church used to have a lot of power. Catholic priests were seen as the educated leaders of the people (and I'll extend this to priests/ministers/vicars of other religions in most countries). What they said was seen as unchallengable.
So if a kid said "Father X made me do this", how likely were they to be believed? If anyone challenged Father X he would no doubt shrug it off by saying "But I'm a man of God. I would never do anything like that". If sufficient people went to the local Bishop and said "There's a lot of stories about Father X and altarboys", it seems like the Bishop either ignored the stories or was complicit in hushing it up.
I agree that there is nothing in any religion (that I know of) which encourages child molesting and that anyone who does this is evil, but it certainly seems that a significant number of people in positions of power have done this and had their crimes brushed under the carpet by people at higher levels in the organisation.
OK, the Vatican and the Irish Catholic Church have issued apologies for what happened. Crocodile tears. They knew what was going on and didn't stop it.
Whatever Jimmy Savile may have done and how the BBC may be complicit in it isn't in the same league. I look to the BBC for entertainment and not guidance on how to live my life. A billion or so people look to the Catholic Church for moral guidance and the reality is that people in authority (ie. the Vatican) have been covering up wrongdoings of people that are supposed to be the moral guardians of their communities.
Those who are guilty of such evil behaviour are completely at fault of course. The Catholic religion has had a lot of stick because priests were guilty of paedophilia and my point is that is totally against Catholic teaching,in fact it must be close to an excommunicable offence. Those who did carry out such acts were responsible in their own right and were acting outside the rules of the religion. They were just as much at fault of course as all those paedophiles who are not associated with the religion.
The attempts at covering up those offences by high up members of the Church are also of course as bad as the offences themselves. I did say that above and once again that is down to a mistaken effort to protect the reputation of the religion.
All this is down to individuals who were prepared to abuse children against their own religious teachings. This is the fault of those individuals and cannot be blamed on the religion itself.
I don't see how a religion which is so strongly against child abuse can be regarded as likely to attract paedophiles. You find such wicked people in all walks of life and I believe it to be wrong to blame the religion in way way that it has been by those who are looking for any possible chance to run it down.
If those in charge are prepared to act against the rules of the religion, then the religion cannot be blamed for that.
Les
17 October 2012, 11:07 PM
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