steve ex vauxhall

iTrader: (5)

Agree with what everyone's said, but also agree with specialx, I too played outside when I was that age until dark, and in a very similar estate to the one in question.
If you,look at the estate where April has gone missing from, there's a row of terraced houses right on the field out front, with the road the other side, that to me is a safe place for kids to play, and can be seen from all the houses in the row.

However, if this b@stard has indeed taken her, he was known to the family, and known to April, the parents or neighbours may even have seen him talking to her, but thought nothing of it as they know him.

I just hope she turns up safe and sound, but its not looking good

TelBoy

Fair enough, we all do it differently. I think if you held a national poll about whether a 3 year old should be outside until dark, to all intents and purposes unsupervised, you'd have just a tiny tiny minority on your side. I'm sure April's parents had the same idyllic view of the world too. Not now.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Doesn't look good at all.

Search is concentrated on the river now, looks like it has been all day.
I get a bad feeling he's admitted to killing her and dumping the body in there. He was wearing a camoflage jacket and waterproof trousers when arrested.

I certainly hope i'm wrong though.

urban

iTrader: (1)

I'm also a parent, but when my son or daughter were 5 they wouldn't have been allowed with other 5 year olds on their own when nearly dark.

I can't look back at what I was allowed to do at 5 because I can't feckin remember!

specialx

Please don't think I let my kids run around like feral children far from it they are in the Close where I live and can be heard at all times (mine are very loud!!)my 3 year old goes out the odd evening when the weather is good and always has "Big Bro" with him, it empowers my eldest no end thinking he's in charge of looking after him, he is very very protective of him! We are just the other side of mine or one of the other neighbors curtains, I'm lucky we have a very tight community spirit on my close where we actively look out for each others kids, regularly handing out lollies, burgers, toast, drinks to a gang of well spoken Ribena smilers that always say thank you at the same time junior school style!

I completely hear what you are saying but I'm not going to live my life thinking about the what if's, if I did we wouldn't leave the house.

How far would you take anything that would possibly have a risk involved?

Fly on a plane, risk of crash

Drive car, risk of crash

Play sport, risk of injury

Go swimming, risk of drowning

see where I'm going.

What I am getting at is thankfully these abductions are very rare and in most cases are committed by a friend or associate of the child so keeping them in the house wouldn't make much difference, I cannot see the point of stunting my child's development down to a remote possibility.

Let them play!

TelBoy

Appreciate the measured response, although i don't think risks associated with youth/adult activities are comparable with those pertaining to a child with zero sense of risk of most things beyond not falling over. I would never have allowed my children that amount of freedom, if that's what it is, and i'm 100% certain their development hasn't been compromised in any way. Like i say horses for courses but i cannot help feeling very uncomfortable that a 3 year old is deemed safe outside with minimal supervision till darkness falls. Maybe it's just me.

Carlh

Agree with you ad, you have to let them play.

I was watching the news earlier, the parents house was MANY streets away from where she was "supposidly" abducted.

Im saying supposidly, as it was a child that was the supposed witness of the abduction. Into a beige van.
Which they now have some guy in custody who owns a BLUE van.

Its all a bit fishy too me. Something going on...

Sorry but Im seeing too many ex-dads killing their families (one happened a couple of days ago - again), too many parents doing their own kids over and claiming some stranger done it.

This abduction is the FIRST to be on "Amber Alert". Approx 20 kids a year are actually abducted like this. We'll be seeing these types of reports, a couple of times a month - which unfortunately is going to scare the hell out of parents, meaning they'll be locking their kids indoors which leads to poor social skills - which is, I think, the most important skills a kid can learn.

I hope that the little girl is still alive and "uncle so and so" is hiding her in house (fed and watered of course) under some kidnapping for cash idea gone wrong. We can only hope.

Carlh

Agree with you ad, you have to let them play.

I was watching the news earlier, the parents house was MANY streets away from where she was "supposidly" abducted.

Im saying supposidly, as it was a child that was the supposed witness of the abduction. Into a beige van.
Which they now have some guy in custody who owns a BLUE van.

Its all a bit fishy too me. Something going on...

Sorry but Im seeing too many ex-dads killing their families (one happened a couple of days ago - again), too many parents doing their own kids over and claiming some stranger done it.

This abduction is the FIRST to be on "Amber Alert". Approx 20 kids a year are actually abducted like this. We'll be seeing these types of reports, a couple of times a month - which unfortunately is going to scare the hell out of parents, meaning they'll be locking their kids indoors which leads to poor social skills - which is, I think, the most important skills a kid can learn.

I hope that the little girl is still alive and "uncle so and so" is hiding her in house (fed and watered of course) under some kidnapping for cash idea gone wrong. We can only hope.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

i agree, but its interesting to read others points of view, i have read them with interest but still wouldnt change my mind.

anyway i hope they find the little one safe.

TelBoy

Specialx, i will just ask, thinking more about this, is it a matter of convenience for you that the kids play outside as they do? To allow your wife to get on with her chores? To give her a break from child-minding duties? Or do you encourage it specifically because you think it enhances social development in some way? I'm just genuinely curious how it fits in with your lifestyle.

Skoobie Dhu

iTrader: (3)

That's what children do, you can't wrap them in cotton wool and lock them indoors.

Cases like this are very, very rare, and in a lot of cases the abductor is known to the family. Completely random abductions are even rarer.

jonc

I have a girl of 5 too and I have every sympathy for the parents, no matter what their background, but it never surprises me that a white caucasian child, especially a girl, should receive such media coverage.

specialx

Just read the above about how far away from the house the child was, too far IMO, mine are never out of our Cul-de-sac

specialx

Purely down to social development, I have seen the life problems at fist hand in adults that find it hard to interact, take part and deal with loss etc so find it imperative that my kinds have great social skills asap, This for me this starts and is mastered in the playground. What's the point of having exams coming out of your ar** but not being able to look an interviewer in the eyes when answering questions and smile.

There are kids today that can hack into the pentagon but can't ride a bike or have the social skill to ask a stranger for directions!

Fear ruins children.

Leslie

Its all very well the mother weeping all over the TV, but did she not think about her own responsibility for looking after her daughter?

My sympathies are with the poor little girl rather than the parents, or certainly the mother anyway.

Les

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

I don't agree with what you're saying. You're taking it to the extreme to suggest that because I wouldn't let my son out unsupervised at 5 years old that I'd keep him locked indoors until 15-16!

I would not let my 5 year old son out unsupervised, no way on earth! Having the kids outside your house with the front door open or as you're in the garden is one thing, letting them wander off into neighbouring streets under the care of other 5 year olds is stupidity.

The fact is there ARE lot's of sick ***** about willing to do this sort of thing, why anyone would take the chance I'll never understand.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

We are living in some bad times now the days of letting kids run about without a care are long gone by.its not like the 70's when i was growing up the only time my mum and dad saw me is when i was hungry or thirsty and as soon as i got something to eat or drink i was gone.I have four children with my wife and I can't say that I'm over protective but letting my kids play out where I can't see them or without no adult supervision is a strictly no no people these days are getting worst sick mental disturbed etc.... It's not worth the risk now especially with your love ones.

Leslie

Quite right!
Like murders that sort of thing seems to be getting worse these days too.
Les

David Lock

It seems to be the view that kids did have more freedom and less supervision in say the 70s.

But I do wonder if, statistically, there were more rapes/abductions etc then??

And I bet mothers then would have been horrified to learn that in the future it would be quite normal for kids to play games using the TV or a screen which meant that they could pretend to kill people for several hours a day with a TV in their bedrooms. Or that many 14 year old girls would be on the pill. As for social networks

Progress eh?

dl

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

after watching channel 4 dispatch's ages ago when they interviewed a potential kid fid , the interviewer asked him what is your fantasy,
to do a sidney cook he replied (remember that kid from the fairgroung raped and killed in a caravan)
but you would get 15years min replied the interviewer
and replied the perv (almost like he considered it good value)
what about if the death penalty was brought back for such crimes asked the interviewer
HELL NO REPLIED THE PERV wouldnt do it
i only wish this donkey *** goverment would grown some and bring it back,
this program only served to prove that the meer threat of death penalty would make them think twice, shame mr cameron and cronies can't think twice

Martin2005

Les - how can you judge their actions, we do not know the facts

Those poor parents are going through the very worst kind of hell.

This is a truly terrible situation, and the last needed is people siting piously in judgement of the poor parents

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

I remember being 3 and looking out of the window watching my 3 brothers playing out and haven't to wait for my 4th birthday before I was allowed out. My Brothers obviously kept watch over me and I spent my entire youth playing football, run outs, setting up ramps and jumps and injuring myself repeatedly.

I have 2 Son's. My eldest is 10 and lives with his Mum, my youngest is 6 and plays out almost every day. My eldest for his birthday was given a Mac Book Air (I kid you not) and a Blackberry. We have him subscribed on youtube and get several emails a day saying he's just made another video, at last count I think he had 800 video's on his channel. For his 10th birthday I gave him a £50 second hand mini-moto.
Recently my youngest has been having problems with the other kids outside, they've been teasing him a little. As he's a black belt in Kung Fu it has been very tempting to tell him to chin anyone who says anything but instead he's dealt with it by ignoring it and arguing back, refusing to share his toys with the one's being nasty.
As hard as it has been on him I'd much rather he learnt to deal with these things as such a young age and was able to handle himself well. My eldest Son though we have to force outside and often just stands on the fringe of them all playing not knowing how to join in. We have a PS3 and a Wii, yet my youngest after an hour on either will get bored and start drawing or playing Lego. My eldest would spend an entire day on either if we let him.
A lot depends on the lifestyle you lead, the area you live in and the community. Most people barely speak to their neighbours anymore or ship their kids off to childminders. If someone knocks on your door its like they've invaded your privacy. No parent would leave their child in danger, unless they were unstable, and I imagine April's Mum felt that her daughter was perfectly fine. You can't adapt society to fit around Peadophiles when they hide among us, we can only adapt if we had some real idea of where or how many there were in a certain area.

A friend of ours recently looked to exchange to a nearby town, from a flat to house. They loved the house, the garden and when she viewed it the kids were all playing out on the street. Luckily the owner informed them a local neighbour was regularly raided and his computer taken for kiddy images, yet he was just allowed to go back to his house as if nothing had happened. Sure enough she looked this chap up on google and it was widely known he was a Peado.

Pjamie

Times have obviously changed. I used to go to the shops at the bottom of the street for my mum when I was 3. When I was 4, and living near Slaterford Road Edinburgh, I used to get up in the early morning (around 06:00), dress myself, and leave the house to meet the milkman and his horse at the end of the street, and go on the delivery round over a couple of streets. I'd then walk home and stop at the bakers to pick up the rolls for breakfast. I did this for months until I was 5 and had to start going to school instead. My mum and dad weren't neglectful in the slightest - I've always been an indepedent soul - but this would probably be considered unbelievable nowadays.

TelBoy

Was i wrong to read that in the style of Monty Python's "when i were a lad" ?

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

That's what I was thinking!

Speaking of which, who honestly remembers what they did when they were 3 years old!

boxst

Well .... when I were a lad (8 onwards) I used to take the dog for a few hour long walks in the woods around where I lived and in the middle there was a 'scary' house that was empty and had ghosts of all the people the previous owner had killed. And also play with people a few streets away. My parents sort of knew where I was, but I just had to be home in time for tea. They were not neglectful in the slightest.

It is a shame that the world has changed so much, or at least the perception of the world has changed. I think that these 'things' always went on, but were not so widely publicised. I was told to be careful of 'men with sweeties' and not to go with them...

Leslie

You just have to face up to the facts Martin.

I deliberately did not place any blame on the father-he probably was not on the spot anyway.

There is a map in the papers which shows that there is a biggish open space between the daughter's home and then a cluster of houses where the little girl was. She would have been out of sight of the mother.

Bearing in mind that the little girl also suffers from cerebral palsy and that she was a significant distance away from her home, she was also out of sight of her mother and also as a 5 year old not under the supervision of a grown up, can you possibly excuse the mother for her total lack of responsibility for her daughter's welfare?

We must get back to the fact that the safety of the little girl was paramount and that her mother did very little if anything in that respect. I believe that the mother deserves maximum criticism for her part in all this regardless of how sorry she keeps telling us she is now.

It is the little girl who deserves our complete sympathy and who we should be fearful for regardless of her mother's performance.

Les

Martin2005

I don't think this is even remotely your business to criticise the mother. Plus you don't know the facts.

ScoobySteve69

iTrader: (13)

People keep saying time`s have changed...there have always been paedos...it was just never publicised as much when we were kids. I totally understand specialx `s comments...kids nowadays just haven`t got the `social skills` we had as youngsters. I`m just glad I`m not a parent.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

It's like the McCann's, is it their fault? They have to live with their decision everyday?

On a school night my grandaughter is in bed by 7pm. She may not be asleep but she's indoors, safe.