TelBoy

I think British politicians are too scared of the backlash from countries like Germany and France to have the ***** to officially leave. Fear of the unknown.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

IS it that though?

Or is it the EU gravy train old boys' club?

TelBoy

I don't think so, no. Politics is corrupt no doubt, but i still have faith that some politicians want what's best for the UK. The problem is, nobody knows for sure how we'd be affected if we left the EU.

shooter007

unless 51% + vote we never will but at least we voted

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You have 100% more faith in UK politicians than I have, Tel.

I would only trust them to fill their, and their supporters' pockets.

Martin2005

I think 60%+ voted in '05

shooter007

Yes we voted

Leslie

I am with you on this one. I would not trust the average modern politician to the end of my road, and mine is the last house!

Les

warrenm2

OK pleasantly surprised to see your reasonable position on this Martin. And you're right some language may be emotive, however I think you are hard pressed to disagree with the thrust of the argument. Agreed we have problems with a) voter apathy and b) quality of UK politicians. My take on a) is that as effectively all 3 traditional major parties have fairly identical policies (maybe because the EU controls the rest?), people are feeling disenfranchised and hence don't bother.

As for b) they may be bast**ds, but they're ours, and we will deal with them via the ballot box. Without outside interference I am optimistic something will be worked out on that front. It won't be an overnight thing but I am happy to go through the process.

What I am sure on though is the UK must leave the EU. I haven't started on the economic reasons, the audit failures, the corruption, the sheer lunacy of it's policies, because to me, without the means to chose and remove your leaders, you are lost

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Must? Yes, I have to agree.

Will? Not in my lifetime, nor yours, I suspect.

warrenm2

Actually as I'm not 85, I think you might be surprised. You can't hide reality forever, it eventually catches up and makes itself known. There are just so many things that keep it on the agenda, we've got the whole Romanian/Bulgarian migration in 2014 for a start...

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Which, of course, we will make no effort to avoid/stop/cut down, because, "The EC say we HAVE to accept them, so what can weeeeeeeee do?"

warrenm2

Possible scenario 1) It will increase UKIP's vote for sure. Tories think that most of those people are disaffected Tory voters and need to be brought back into the fold. Cameron (if he's still there) pledges in/out Referendum after 2015 election to stay in power

Possible scenario 2) Labour seize on issue as a vote winner and offer in/out Referendum after 2015 election to get in power

Possible scenario 3) UKIP's momentum gains to such an extent that having thrashed the Tories in the 2014 Euro elections, suddenly form a Gvmt in the 2015 elections with a 100 MP majority like Blair did in 1997 and pull us out. Or maybe not

Martin2005

Scenario 3 is about as likely as the Girl Guides forming and axis with the Mormons and Salvation Army and carrying out an armed coup

I guess that one sure-fire way of making UKIP go away would be for us vote to get out the EU - nearly a good enough reason on its own!

warrenm2

Any vote of pulling out is fine by me Martin, regardless of motive!

Another reason this will be on the political agenda over this Parliament, complete fiscal Union...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...r-members.html