Lag is more to do with bad driving than a bad car! Correct gear for the speed and you don’t have any issues?

 

But who wants to drive everywhere at 5k rpm and be blipping the throttle between changes.

 

I have always said this.

Its no different to a N/A car to be honest. Try flooring a N/A car in 5th at slow speeds and you get nothing.....exactly the same as a turbo car, except when the car has a turbo bolted to it everyone blames it on LAG!

 

I get peak torque at 4750rpm, so can quite easily drive between 4-5krpm and still make good progress. Then if the needs arises to go ***** out I have another 3k rpm to play with

 

On road spools faster than on RR around 400-500PRM sooner and on meth is different too





Jura

 

1 bar at 3600rpm for a bigger turbo is good and the torque/bhp levels at 3600 are far in excess of a standard car so it would be a quick car in real life. Obviously the lower it spools the better but that's not much different to the oem spool on a 2 litre.

My 2 litre (P1) ran 450bhp/370 ft lb of torque and was a good road car with a 5 speed box for quite a long time with no issues. Now has a 2.1/6 speed but hasn't been remapped yet

 

I love you guys with the big power, trying to persuade me to join the 400+ and i have to say i am very tempted, then 500 then 600 how much is enough, serious question.

I'll have the engine to cope with late 4's just not sure if i'll be sacrificing low down drivability, i'm not bothered about top end after 130 mph, already done the silly speed thing on bikes.

What engine side ancillaries would you say are "must haves" for a mid 400 bhp car, things like parallel fuel rails, reversed inlet, swirl pot, catch can, baffled sump, i'd like to keep it as close to stock as possible but also safe.

 

Although you should probably mention that's a built engine with uprated internals. I think 500bhp on a standard WRX engine would be an interesting experiment

Did you see the comments earlier re 500ft/lbs on a drag strip on a 5 speed? Find that rather difficult to believe unless it was a PPG gearset!
I know more than a couple of people on our local groups whose 5 speeds let go anywhere between 350ft/lbs and 400ft/lbs (latter on a hawk WRX, but have seen this on classics, and bug wrx's). This was why I sold mine before I upped the power significantly.

I agree with the comments re 400bhp being about right for a newage. Would love a 2.1 or 2.3 build but until I kill mine I'm sticking with the standard block!

 

I think the Wrx engine would probably make it to 500bhp but you would have to be very gentle with it, otherwise it would just melt the pistons under sustained use.

Quick explanation of my thinking:

I have a few reasons for this thread, one is i have most of the bits for a forged build and a couple of spare blocks, my clutch on the blob is getting a bit tired, and i have a low mile AP clutch and light weight flywheel sat in the garage along with other bits and bobs, so figured if i'm going to have to do major work on the car i may as well use all the bits i have, because second hand they are worth a fraction of what i paid for them, then get it nice and sweet in one go.

I also want to get a bit more engine building practice under my belt, then if something goes wrong i'll have a good spare engine to drop in, all be it a lowly wrx engine.

So back to the original question, what turbo and power, because it's a newage bare minimum is 320bhp.

What i'd like to know from the guy's that have taken the journey is; where's that illusive "Sweet Spot", just to save me going forwards and then back, like i did with the type r.

Don't let brakes suspension get in the way as i have AP 4pots and i'll sort the handling a bit more to my taste as and when required.

 

Sweet spot for a newage car is 450bhp

 

No.
Driving skill is more important.

 

Fair enough mate
I swapped over a fair few mods from my old car onto the new one, so ALK, 8 pot K-Sports etc, as I realised like you that I'd never get the money I paid for them back if I was to sell em second hand.

When I bought my STI, it was pretty much standard. I added a 3" exhaust, panel filter and 3 port, and it made 320. I then chucked 650's and a TD05 20g into the mix, and the car made 355/310.
This felt quick low down but was obviously well under for a 20g. I then swapped out the TMIC for a FMIC and the car made 382/340, which is what I'm running now.

Now, I have to say that while it feels quick, with the FMIC the power delivery is actually more linear and less savage than you get with a TMIC (and I imagine reverse inlet setup too), but it still leaves me feeling like it could do with a bit more torque in the mid range (it's that - I could overtake all 6 cars instead of just 5 if I had a bit more oomph feeling ), and this is why I'm awaiting delivery of a billet SC42, as this seems to offer the best mix of spool versus torque and power.
I also purchased a second hand set of unequal length GT headers to try and maximise the benefits.

I assume it's always going to be difficult extracting big torque figures from the 2.0 blocks without meth, but perhaps a few people in the know may be able to correct me on that! I'm expecting something between 360-370ft/lbs on this turbo, which will hopefully put it close(r) to a tuned 2.5's which normally make at least 400 all day long.

I could have gone for a 321T billet but the added expense put me off; I'm just hoping I've made the right decision! Worst case scenario, I'll save for a Simtek and get a switchable meth map....

 

If engine is build correctly will hold the required power and beyond,as I said before too 500-550bhp should be no problem for 2.1 OBD(Open Deck Block),just at higher sustained boost level(above 2.0bar) HG can be the issue

Agreed on the standard internals run 500bhp will be interesting to see and good experiment,but in those times people don't giving too much chances on possibility will broke or not

You are probably mean the Harvey(RIP),he run on his TY754 500lb-ft without the issue for few years and too Martyn which he run too.

If you are looking on few guys in USA where people running on their 5speed above 500lb-ft without the issue,not sure how it is possible

400-450bhp is nice sweet spot, which will/can be just perfect for track or fast road

2.1 or 2.35L you don't need at moment,your engine will/should fulfil your bhp requirements without the problem,in our case we are went with 2.1L because we have before low compression on the 2 pistons,now we are went with 2.35L because we are want more power

Jura


Really I would rather build the engine for more power like just for 400bhp,you never know if you in later stages will be want more and more power

Reversed inlet manifold you don't need,if you are thinking to run RS500 FMIC I would go with that,but for yours target wouldn't brother with that,many people claim they have better/faster spool up

Parallel fuel rails,I would say yes,but still not sure for your power/bhp target do you really need,people over 22b using cheap JAW fuel rails with good results,just braided lines and fittings will expensive bit on the end,if you can do it yourself..

Catch can would say yes,is really worth it in my view and about the swirl pot,are doing track days and drag,if not I wouldn't brother

RCM selling their baffled plate,which is very similar to the Cosworth(which now cost above £200),we are run Cosworth baffled plate before and we are done numerous track days or drag runs without the single issue and is worth it

Jura

+1

Agreed on that


Jura

 

Ah I see, didn't know it was low compression that had forced you to have a rebuild.

Re 5 speeds and 500ft/lbs, I can see it might be possible if you're not launching it all the time (as per the late Harvey's comments) and just being relatively sensible, but 500ft/lbs through a 5 speed being used on a drag strip I'd have imagined would be a recipe for disaster without some significant strengthening of the box in question and / or some map modifications to prevent too much power going through the box where it would see higher stress levels - I suppose anything's possible if you're sensible with the mapping setup.

I agree with yours and other comments that 400-450bhp is probably an ideal figure for a newage car, and would probably add to that that you'd want around 370-380ft/lbs to go with that for an ideal daily driver.
I see many of the 321T billets make around or over 400ft/lbs which is impressive stuff on a 2.0!

 

I'm in a newage blobeye wrx.......I'm running 350bhp on a sc36 turbo and love it!!! It hits full boost about 3700rpm and it flies all the way through with no drop in power. I didn't want to run beyond 350 due to gearbox and conrod issues as I'm only running upgraded forged pistons......Great on the road and will find out how it does on track in the new year hopefully!

 

Not sure if this is a stupid question or not.

Is it possible to have a 2.0l stroker, and if so how, and would there be any benefit over a normal 2.0l.

Also is it worth changing the Wrx heads or cams or porting.

And so it begins.

 

Full boost by 3700rpm on an sc36? Was it deliberately held back as my old 20g on my blob wrx used to make full boost way earlier than that (around 3100 rpm).

 

The "stroker" element comes from the EJ257 crank being used which pushes the piston further as it has a longer "stroke".

I think I may be different to everyone else, wanting a fairly bland non-powerful everyday car below 3.5-4k as my old beloved WRX was. My Type R at the moment is spooling at 2.5k and pisses me off.
I'm only aiming at 400/400 because my initial plan was preservation more than power, with the option to go up and up If that's what I wanted.

 

So does that mean i need to change the compression ratio by having the heads machined and what are the benefits of a longer stroke.

 

More torque lo end grunt

 

The power was held back to protect the gearbox and conrods but its also has a different compression wheel in it compared to the normal SC36 (it has a trial turbine in it)....... we found didn't come in as early but was a lot easier to control at top end revs

 

When I sold my 300BHP classic I moved to a 400BHP Evo7 which later became 500BHP (with a tuner known for more realistic dyno results).
The classic was a very nice road car and felt like it could have come like that from the factory, but in this day and age you'd have Astras with diesel tuning boxes burning you off at sensible speeds (sub 100). I would say the 400/500 Evo is 6 of 1 or half a dozen of another. At 400 it was at peak boost (2.0/2.1 bar) at 3500 and would run out of puff at 7000 in the higher gears. At 500 (bigger turbo etc) peak boost of 1.85 came at 4000 but the car would pull hard to 7500+. Due to the lower boost the torque was the same at 400, which makes it easier to compare the two.
My opinion is on some trips the car would be quicker at 400 and on others at 500, depending on road surface and how the straights and corners slot together. More than 500 is probably pointless unless you like booting it in a straight line and less than 400 brings you into 'normal' car territory.

So in summary have 4 or 5 or split the difference and have 4.5, there's probably next to nothing in it overall ON THE ROAD.

 

I'm really happy with my 2.5 at 440 I do plan to get a bit more by swapping the headers but will not sacrifice spool, 1.5 bar by 3500 and 420lb ft at 4000rpm.

 

Bad analogy as I would rag the hell out of her everyday until she expired

 

No head working required iirc. 2.1 Piston's iirc travel further due to the longer stroke of the 2.5 crank but don't touch the heads because the pin sits higher in 2.1 pistons than on standard.
Longer stroke I think helps due to compressing a larger area of air, say 7:1 std to 8:1, giving a better compression ratio (Hope I'm not completely wrong lol).
Didn't you build an engine yourself?

 

Galifrey......LOVE THAT !!!!

 

Yes i did rebuild my engine, but i've not done any research on a 2.1, there was enough to take in without getting side tracked onto stuff thats not relevant to what i was building, and i did almost everything your not supposed to, as it spun a shell in croatia and my build was to get it back to uk, which i did.

I was aware that 2.1 stroker pistons were different, just wondered if it was possible to have a stroked 2.0l hence the not sure if it's a stupid question post.

I'm just spinning options around in my head, and when i get to some idea i'm not sure about, i ask a question, i don't care if it makes me look dumb, because i know i'm not, and thats how i learn new stuff.

 

Exactly why I'm doing what I'm doing chap, sorry If I came across as rude, I just thought as you built yours yourself you'd know the things I said.
I admire you for having the *****, but did the shells, bolt kits and gasket sets cost you much at all?

 

What did you do?

 

Hi ditchy
I bought some tires off you a bit back
Anyway I've just sold my 460/410 sti newage
And apart from the looks as I'd heavily modified the body etc I preferred the classic wagon sti I came to pick the tyers up of you
It only had 280 hp but just felt better apart from after 5k rpm where the classic ran out of puff on standard everything even exhaust and filter.
I honestly think brakes , weight reduction new bushes correct tyers and ap brakes suspension and maybe power to 320-350 with supporting mods and switchable maps for meth that adds great hike in torque.
I'd go this way and not be tempted by big hp
It's never enough anyway
Mick