Scottish Independence
15 September 2014, 11:51 AM
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Chris
You clearly struggle with this.
You've asked what do you do. What you do is have people running your "business" who actually know what they are doing. Who don't **** billions away through ineptitude.
Now, there's no guarantee that iScotland plc will have better management. But one thing is for sure - with the status quo its not going to get any better.
Until you live and breath the Scottish media you really have no idea who shouts loudest. I hear much chat about the Yes campaign bullying their way to the 18th. And yet I don't see that up here. Protesting an openly biased BBC isn't bullying. It's making a stand for equality. Which is all the yes side have ever asked for.
"Project fear" is a Better Together concept. End of. (to use your own words)
The way Better Together has handled elements of their campaign, and the undue influence used has been disgraceful. But you probably won't see that where you are.
When you see the pictures and videos posted of hundereds if hot thousands of Yes supporters in the streets please realise that its a happy, friendly carnival atmosphere. Glasgow was buzzing at the weekend, as was Aberdeen and Inverness. Its not threataning, or malicious.
Edinburgh less so as the Orange Order bigots from NI and Scotland were out in force marching for no. (There's a reason to vote yes on its own) If you don't know what that is - go google.
One more thing 'd like to mention. You keep banging on about Scots getting £1,200 per head more than the rest of the UK. Sorry, but I'm going to have to put the record straight on that one.
For starters, that's £1,200 per head on public expenditure. Its not as if we actually get it.
But that's only part of the story. If you exclude oil & gas revenues GDP per head in Scotland was £20,571 in 2011 and for the UK it was £20,873. But if you do include oil and gas revenues Scotland is shown to generate more per head of population than the UK as a whole. For Scotland, it is £26,424 per head compared with £22,336 per head for the UK.
Tax revenues, including a geographical share of North Sea revenue are equivalent to £10,700 per person, compared to £9000 per person for the UK as a whole. Taken over the last 30 years, back to 1980-81, tax revenue per person in Scotland has been £1350 a year higher than in the UK as a whole, when adjusted for inflation.
So the reality is that Scotland has been a net contributor, per person, to the UK, since the barnet formula came into being.
You clearly struggle with this.
You've asked what do you do. What you do is have people running your "business" who actually know what they are doing. Who don't **** billions away through ineptitude.
Now, there's no guarantee that iScotland plc will have better management. But one thing is for sure - with the status quo its not going to get any better.
Until you live and breath the Scottish media you really have no idea who shouts loudest. I hear much chat about the Yes campaign bullying their way to the 18th. And yet I don't see that up here. Protesting an openly biased BBC isn't bullying. It's making a stand for equality. Which is all the yes side have ever asked for.
"Project fear" is a Better Together concept. End of. (to use your own words)
The way Better Together has handled elements of their campaign, and the undue influence used has been disgraceful. But you probably won't see that where you are.
When you see the pictures and videos posted of hundereds if hot thousands of Yes supporters in the streets please realise that its a happy, friendly carnival atmosphere. Glasgow was buzzing at the weekend, as was Aberdeen and Inverness. Its not threataning, or malicious.
Edinburgh less so as the Orange Order bigots from NI and Scotland were out in force marching for no. (There's a reason to vote yes on its own) If you don't know what that is - go google.
One more thing 'd like to mention. You keep banging on about Scots getting £1,200 per head more than the rest of the UK. Sorry, but I'm going to have to put the record straight on that one.
For starters, that's £1,200 per head on public expenditure. Its not as if we actually get it.
But that's only part of the story. If you exclude oil & gas revenues GDP per head in Scotland was £20,571 in 2011 and for the UK it was £20,873. But if you do include oil and gas revenues Scotland is shown to generate more per head of population than the UK as a whole. For Scotland, it is £26,424 per head compared with £22,336 per head for the UK.
Tax revenues, including a geographical share of North Sea revenue are equivalent to £10,700 per person, compared to £9000 per person for the UK as a whole. Taken over the last 30 years, back to 1980-81, tax revenue per person in Scotland has been £1350 a year higher than in the UK as a whole, when adjusted for inflation.
So the reality is that Scotland has been a net contributor, per person, to the UK, since the barnet formula came into being.
Here is two examples of why Scotland will be worse off.
I wonder when YES voters find their child has an illness beyond the expertise of Yorkhill, they will wish they had access to Great Ormond Street.
Just give one actually real world improvement, not how you will have the ability to but what you will actually do.
15 September 2014, 12:39 PM
#1413
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I see even before the results have come in, salmond and his cronies are already having a go at the bbc for being bias towards the no vote lol
they lining up excuses now?
they lining up excuses now?
15 September 2014, 12:55 PM
#1414
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philosophically speaking, that seems to be the extent of your argument
15 September 2014, 12:57 PM
#1415
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Nizmo80 type tpn into Google and have a look, I am on home tpn and there is only two places in the uk that do home tpn, one is Manchester and the other is London. There are many people that go to the same clinic as I do in Manchester from all over the uk including Scotland, if these people no longer have access to home tpn that Scotland does NOT supply then they will die or have to live in hospital or move to England.
ps - One of my friends had crohn's disease so I'm not just relying on google for this one.
15 September 2014, 01:01 PM
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After all, what do the BBC have to lose on a yes vote - oh yes, quite a lot actually..
15 September 2014, 01:09 PM
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15 September 2014, 01:42 PM
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Well that was a mature considered response
Chris - I've googled it and, perhaps not surprisingly, home pareneral nutrition is available in Scotland, so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to suggest here.
ps - One of my friends had crohn's disease so I'm not just relying on google for this one.
Chris - I've googled it and, perhaps not surprisingly, home pareneral nutrition is available in Scotland, so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to suggest here.
ps - One of my friends had crohn's disease so I'm not just relying on google for this one.
There are two hospitals that have the ability to manage home tpn, in my case bupa supply the home tpn but with out the management from Salford royal it is worth nothing.
Rather than trying to talk down to me just give me one example of how it will be better, I have given two reasons why it wont you just give one. I am not saying there wont be things that are better but what?
I'll get you stated, is the number 10 bus that is always late going to be on time, or what about the streets, will they be swept better?
Last edited by Carnut; 15 September 2014 at 01:46 PM.
15 September 2014, 02:36 PM
#1422
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Yes I have crohns disease. But yes home tpn is available in Scotland but it wont be if the yes vote wins. The very fact that one of your friends had to rely on a service only available with the management of a English hospital just backs up my argument, ask your friend just how important his home tpn was to him and where it came from.
There are two hospitals that have the ability to manage home tpn, in my case bupa supply the home tpn but with out the management from Salford royal it is worth nothing.
Rather than trying to talk down to me just give me one example of how it will be better, I have given two reasons why it wont you just give one. I am not saying there wont be things that are better but what?
I'll get you stated, is the number 10 bus that is always late going to be on time, or what about the streets, will they be swept better?
There are two hospitals that have the ability to manage home tpn, in my case bupa supply the home tpn but with out the management from Salford royal it is worth nothing.
Rather than trying to talk down to me just give me one example of how it will be better, I have given two reasons why it wont you just give one. I am not saying there wont be things that are better but what?
I'll get you stated, is the number 10 bus that is always late going to be on time, or what about the streets, will they be swept better?
I'm not sure why you think that home tpn (or anything else for that matter) will suddenly no longer be available in Scotland if its a yes vote. That seems highly speculative on your part.
You do know that Scotland currently has its own NHS whch is not merely the "Northern Branch" of NHS England?
What you have done is speculated on two points. You haven't given me two examples.
Why would an independent Scotland be better? The key point is the ability to have control over our own finances and to benefit fully from our own resouces. To do a better job of managing our country because decisions made in Government won't have to be a compromise.
We won't, for example, be wasting billions on (illegal) wars because we won't be America's bitch.
So whilst the bus will probably always be late, because no amount of money can fix that, the streets should be swept better.
Last edited by Devildog; 15 September 2014 at 02:40 PM.
15 September 2014, 03:08 PM
#1423
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Chris
I'm not sure why you think that home tpn (or anything else for that matter) will suddenly no longer be available in Scotland if its a yes vote. That seems highly speculative on your part.
You do know that Scotland currently has its own NHS whch is not merely the "Northern Branch" of NHS England?
What you have done is speculated on two points. You haven't given me two examples.
Why would an independent Scotland be better? The key point is the ability to have control over our own finances and to benefit fully from our own resouces. To do a better job of managing our country because decisions made in Government won't have to be a compromise.
We won't, for example, be wasting billions on (illegal) wars because we won't be America's bitch.
So whilst the bus will probably always be late, because no amount of money can fix that, the streets should be swept better.
I'm not sure why you think that home tpn (or anything else for that matter) will suddenly no longer be available in Scotland if its a yes vote. That seems highly speculative on your part.
You do know that Scotland currently has its own NHS whch is not merely the "Northern Branch" of NHS England?
What you have done is speculated on two points. You haven't given me two examples.
Why would an independent Scotland be better? The key point is the ability to have control over our own finances and to benefit fully from our own resouces. To do a better job of managing our country because decisions made in Government won't have to be a compromise.
We won't, for example, be wasting billions on (illegal) wars because we won't be America's bitch.
So whilst the bus will probably always be late, because no amount of money can fix that, the streets should be swept better.
15 September 2014, 03:37 PM
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15 September 2014, 03:53 PM
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Chris
I'm not sure why you think that home tpn (or anything else for that matter) will suddenly no longer be available in Scotland if its a yes vote. That seems highly speculative on your part.
You do know that Scotland currently has its own NHS whch is not merely the "Northern Branch" of NHS England?
I'm not sure why you think that home tpn (or anything else for that matter) will suddenly no longer be available in Scotland if its a yes vote. That seems highly speculative on your part.
You do know that Scotland currently has its own NHS whch is not merely the "Northern Branch" of NHS England?
Why would an independent Scotland be better? The key point is the ability to have control over our own finances and to benefit fully from our own resouces. To do a better job of managing our country because decisions made in Government won't have to be a compromise.
We won't, for example, be wasting billions on (illegal) wars because we won't be America's bitch.
So whilst the bus will probably always be late, because no amount of money can fix that, the streets should be swept better.
We won't, for example, be wasting billions on (illegal) wars because we won't be America's bitch.
So whilst the bus will probably always be late, because no amount of money can fix that, the streets should be swept better.
Oh and when I say left behind if the yes vote wins then every other person that will remain part of the uk will be to some degree worse off but I dont suspect that you give a ****. Scotland has got all it needs from being part of the uk and now it wants to take all that it has achieved by being part of the uk and pìss off. THANKS
15 September 2014, 04:20 PM
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People travel from all over the uk including NI for home tpn management in ENGLAND, when I was on h8 at Salford royal there was a rich Arab that was paying through the roof for the same care as I was getting on the nhs and its because ENGLAND offers an expertise in intestinal failure that the rest of the world (with the exception of the USA) just doesn't offer. If you think Scotland can just setup a similar ward to h8 at Salford royal then you clearly have no idea how special and unique it is.
Right ok well now we are getting somewhere, so you think Scotland will be a richer country then the rest of the uk that gets left behind?
Oh and when I say left behind if the yes vote wins then every other person that will remain part of the uk will be to some degree worse off but I dont suspect that you give a ****. Scotland has got all it needs from being part of the uk and now it wants to take all that it has achieved by being part of the uk and pìss off. THANKS
Right ok well now we are getting somewhere, so you think Scotland will be a richer country then the rest of the uk that gets left behind?
Oh and when I say left behind if the yes vote wins then every other person that will remain part of the uk will be to some degree worse off but I dont suspect that you give a ****. Scotland has got all it needs from being part of the uk and now it wants to take all that it has achieved by being part of the uk and pìss off. THANKS
Chris you really dont understand do you
Regardless on how you feel on the matter the people of scotland have had it with westminster and their corruption and lies.
We want to make our own future without your government trying to stop us.
We do shout loud as you said but that just shows our confidence on what we believe in
unlike you who has to fall back on sh1tty replys like above
Bye,,,Bye ENGLAND YES YES YES!!!!!!
Last edited by nizmo80; 15 September 2014 at 05:45 PM.
15 September 2014, 05:20 PM
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I don't know, my dad did ok up here when he had his ulcerative colitis. Thankfully he is clear of that but it only took him 12 year's. All treated at the Southern General at that time
15 September 2014, 05:45 PM
#1428
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I have just spoken to my father in law
who has just come back from a tour in Scotland - he is a musician (well I say a musician, in reality he is a bass player)
anyway he said Scotland is absolutely buzzing - the atmosphere around the place was amazing - and the yes vote the most vocal
but just great to see everyone involved in the democratic process
he said as always the Glasgow crowed are the best in the world - and when the lead singer (Paul Jones) said "thanks for a great night and we can't wait to come back"
a guy from the crowd shouted "don't forget ye passport"
who has just come back from a tour in Scotland - he is a musician (well I say a musician, in reality he is a bass player)
anyway he said Scotland is absolutely buzzing - the atmosphere around the place was amazing - and the yes vote the most vocal
but just great to see everyone involved in the democratic process
he said as always the Glasgow crowed are the best in the world - and when the lead singer (Paul Jones) said "thanks for a great night and we can't wait to come back"
a guy from the crowd shouted "don't forget ye passport"
15 September 2014, 06:11 PM
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I mean, if I were Cameron, the stress of Scotland nagging that chronic for its independence in addition to that Islamic State horror issue would have done my head in, and I would have gone to Scotland- "Here, just have it, for God's sake! Have it, and now get on with it on your frikking own!"
He has just compared this situation to a painful divorce on Sky news. Poor guy. That will go down in the history books that Scotland did one under Cameron.
David Beckham is also sad about the probable partition.
He has just compared this situation to a painful divorce on Sky news. Poor guy. That will go down in the history books that Scotland did one under Cameron.
David Beckham is also sad about the probable partition.
15 September 2014, 06:40 PM
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One thing which is good that there's plenty of understandable Scottish accent on the news due to this YES and NO milarky atm. Sounds quite cool imo. It sounds as if they garnish the accent instead of putting it plain on the plate. Love it. 
15 September 2014, 07:58 PM
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15 September 2014, 08:19 PM
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15 September 2014, 08:21 PM
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15 September 2014, 09:39 PM
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Ahh..Mr Murphy appears 
I think you'll find I argued that it could be done but it was far from straightforward - as confirmed below.
http://news.sky.com/story/1333807/ll...o-help-hq-move
Did your School reports say "must try harder?"
Post 485 on this thread Ray, to save you looking
I think you'll find I argued that it could be done but it was far from straightforward - as confirmed below.
http://news.sky.com/story/1333807/ll...o-help-hq-move
Did your School reports say "must try harder?"
Post 485 on this thread Ray, to save you looking
It went from not possible, needs dramatic changes in law, lengthy work to even consider getting put through and ultimately "massive" and unlikely when asked by myself and jonc at outset through a variety of posts.....and yet as we get closer to the date each bank now confidently states that "they will" move registration to England from Scotland.
Now, either you are in charge of both banks or maybe you've just been guessing all along and looking at current set-ups.
Every day should be a school day for you Steve as you've missed some classes
15 September 2014, 09:59 PM
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15 September 2014, 10:08 PM
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ive not read the full thread but ill put my input into this.
im a fan of the current union we have, i see no reason for scotland to break away i dont believe they will be any better off. Theres a section of scottish people that dont like the english (mainly SNP).
I wouldnt trust that salmond at all i think hes a tyrant. scotland would have no defence force, no currency, and would have to pay back half of the trillion pound of debt that the uk owes.
its mainly down power and to the oil and gas which lets face it wont last forever
they will be unable to join the eu so cant have the euro currency, so who will they trade with?? NATO/UN would be near impossible to join. they would be simply on their own.
were better together.....
having said that its Scotland's choice ill be watching Friday for the results.
im a fan of the current union we have, i see no reason for scotland to break away i dont believe they will be any better off. Theres a section of scottish people that dont like the english (mainly SNP).
I wouldnt trust that salmond at all i think hes a tyrant. scotland would have no defence force, no currency, and would have to pay back half of the trillion pound of debt that the uk owes.
its mainly down power and to the oil and gas which lets face it wont last forever
they will be unable to join the eu so cant have the euro currency, so who will they trade with?? NATO/UN would be near impossible to join. they would be simply on their own.
were better together.....
having said that its Scotland's choice ill be watching Friday for the results.
Last edited by slash920; 15 September 2014 at 10:10 PM.