Another mass School shooting in the States.
17 December 2012, 10:32 PM
#91
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what kindof reaction do you think that would bring - genuine question mate
17 December 2012, 10:40 PM
#92
I dont get the whole Gun thing, I tried a few in Vegas and it was fun but having used them I have no desire to own one, nobody should have an Uzi or any full auto weapon at home, it is kind of a blunt instrument, there is no sport with that kind of thing, thats more about macho posturing and small dick syndrome. I can understand a hunting rifle, I can see the sport in that and proper hunters can go several trips without firing a shot.
Most people dont need a handgun as really, how often do you need to draw a weapon to protect yourself, I would imagine most are drawn in anger on family or by mistake, someone drunk or just woken from sleep is not the best to judge whether the "intruder" is actually a threat or just your son arriving back bladdered.
I dont get the "Right to bear arms", that comes from the consitution which was from 1787 s is it really still applicable, it is treated like religion, it is said to end a conversation, if someone asks why someone has a gun they say "Because its in the constitution" and at that point we are not mean to question it as it is "The Constitution", it just seems a crap way to justify something, it isnt like they havent made amedments to it before. We are two hundred and odd years on and the gun fans are using it to hide behind and justify owning rafts of massively powerful weapons, I bet most of them only know the "Right to Bear Arms" bit anyway. I wish they would be honest and say it was because they are tactile, weighty, make a cool noise, are interesting techically and are very compelling, make you feel important with a hint of macho bull****/male bonding shared interest type stuff.
I think they need to look at the profiles of the killers, almost all male, if not totally all male and aged between 15 and 30, usually loners, outsiders, usually white and middle class, these are the people that need keeping from firearms before anyone else, perhaps the campaign should be around owners of guns with young males int he house need to keep them somewhere separate, young lads are too amped up on testosterone, too emotional and too ****ing stupid to be allowed to have firearms in the same building, if they want to use them it would have to be supervised on a range and that is where the gun stays.
Most people dont need a handgun as really, how often do you need to draw a weapon to protect yourself, I would imagine most are drawn in anger on family or by mistake, someone drunk or just woken from sleep is not the best to judge whether the "intruder" is actually a threat or just your son arriving back bladdered.
I dont get the "Right to bear arms", that comes from the consitution which was from 1787 s is it really still applicable, it is treated like religion, it is said to end a conversation, if someone asks why someone has a gun they say "Because its in the constitution" and at that point we are not mean to question it as it is "The Constitution", it just seems a crap way to justify something, it isnt like they havent made amedments to it before. We are two hundred and odd years on and the gun fans are using it to hide behind and justify owning rafts of massively powerful weapons, I bet most of them only know the "Right to Bear Arms" bit anyway. I wish they would be honest and say it was because they are tactile, weighty, make a cool noise, are interesting techically and are very compelling, make you feel important with a hint of macho bull****/male bonding shared interest type stuff.
I think they need to look at the profiles of the killers, almost all male, if not totally all male and aged between 15 and 30, usually loners, outsiders, usually white and middle class, these are the people that need keeping from firearms before anyone else, perhaps the campaign should be around owners of guns with young males int he house need to keep them somewhere separate, young lads are too amped up on testosterone, too emotional and too ****ing stupid to be allowed to have firearms in the same building, if they want to use them it would have to be supervised on a range and that is where the gun stays.
17 December 2012, 10:42 PM
#93
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it would more than likely provoke a civil disobedience on such a massive scale it would result in the overthrow of the government and president
just view the youtube link I posted
"from my cold dead hands"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=5ju4Gla2odw
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 17 December 2012 at 10:50 PM.
17 December 2012, 10:53 PM
#94
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I dont get the whole Gun thing, I tried a few in Vegas and it was fun but having used them I have no desire to own one, nobody should have an Uzi or any full auto weapon at home, it is kind of a blunt instrument, there is no sport with that kind of thing, thats more about macho posturing and small dick syndrome. I can understand a hunting rifle, I can see the sport in that and proper hunters can go several trips without firing a shot.
Most people dont need a handgun as really, how often do you need to draw a weapon to protect yourself, I would imagine most are drawn in anger on family or by mistake, someone drunk or just woken from sleep is not the best to judge whether the "intruder" is actually a threat or just your son arriving back bladdered.
I dont get the "Right to bear arms", that comes from the consitution which was from 1787 s is it really still applicable, it is treated like religion, it is said to end a conversation, if someone asks why someone has a gun they say "Because its in the constitution" and at that point we are not mean to question it as it is "The Constitution", it just seems a crap way to justify something, it isnt like they havent made amedments to it before. We are two hundred and odd years on and the gun fans are using it to hide behind and justify owning rafts of massively powerful weapons, I bet most of them only know the "Right to Bear Arms" bit anyway. I wish they would be honest and say it was because they are tactile, weighty, make a cool noise, are interesting techically and are very compelling, make you feel important with a hint of macho bull****/male bonding shared interest type stuff.
I think they need to look at the profiles of the killers, almost all male, if not totally all male and aged between 15 and 30, usually loners, outsiders, usually white and middle class, these are the people that need keeping from firearms before anyone else, perhaps the campaign should be around owners of guns with young males int he house need to keep them somewhere separate, young lads are too amped up on testosterone, too emotional and too ****ing stupid to be allowed to have firearms in the same building, if they want to use them it would have to be supervised on a range and that is where the gun stays.
Most people dont need a handgun as really, how often do you need to draw a weapon to protect yourself, I would imagine most are drawn in anger on family or by mistake, someone drunk or just woken from sleep is not the best to judge whether the "intruder" is actually a threat or just your son arriving back bladdered.
I dont get the "Right to bear arms", that comes from the consitution which was from 1787 s is it really still applicable, it is treated like religion, it is said to end a conversation, if someone asks why someone has a gun they say "Because its in the constitution" and at that point we are not mean to question it as it is "The Constitution", it just seems a crap way to justify something, it isnt like they havent made amedments to it before. We are two hundred and odd years on and the gun fans are using it to hide behind and justify owning rafts of massively powerful weapons, I bet most of them only know the "Right to Bear Arms" bit anyway. I wish they would be honest and say it was because they are tactile, weighty, make a cool noise, are interesting techically and are very compelling, make you feel important with a hint of macho bull****/male bonding shared interest type stuff.
I think they need to look at the profiles of the killers, almost all male, if not totally all male and aged between 15 and 30, usually loners, outsiders, usually white and middle class, these are the people that need keeping from firearms before anyone else, perhaps the campaign should be around owners of guns with young males int he house need to keep them somewhere separate, young lads are too amped up on testosterone, too emotional and too ****ing stupid to be allowed to have firearms in the same building, if they want to use them it would have to be supervised on a range and that is where the gun stays.
guns were much more wipespread in the u.s. just because you dont get it doesnt mean others cant/wont.
i agree supervised use on ranges would be a good move, but your stereo type of shooters isnt what id call 100%, there will be a "big man" culture amongst younger males withregard to gun ownership or power - similar to young males here wanting subarus ect - although with less consequence.
im sure plenty "testosterone amped" teenagers can handle a gun responsibility
an answer is quite difficult imo
17 December 2012, 10:58 PM
#95
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What has the ban on semi-automatic handguns and rifles achieved in this country? Since the ban gun crime and deaths have increased because of the criminal use and ease by which they are being obtained illegally.
As a shooter I have seen this happen and asked myself how is society becoming safer? Society is allowing individuals to become so detached from reality and isolated that they no longer have any morals, remorse or sense of self-worth. Yes we can keep on banning things but does this get to the root of the problems?
Many years ago we all needed each other to co-exist in harmony as human beings (apart from the odd world war), it used to be hard to function and exist without interacting with your neighbours . Now we have societies where you can live comfortably without any interaction, order food and supplies online and live off grid. Add to this the fantasy of roll playing and computer generated dream worlds and you have a recipe for disaster.
As a shooter I have seen this happen and asked myself how is society becoming safer? Society is allowing individuals to become so detached from reality and isolated that they no longer have any morals, remorse or sense of self-worth. Yes we can keep on banning things but does this get to the root of the problems?
Many years ago we all needed each other to co-exist in harmony as human beings (apart from the odd world war), it used to be hard to function and exist without interacting with your neighbours . Now we have societies where you can live comfortably without any interaction, order food and supplies online and live off grid. Add to this the fantasy of roll playing and computer generated dream worlds and you have a recipe for disaster.
17 December 2012, 11:06 PM
#96
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What has the ban on semi-automatic handguns and rifles achieved in this country? Since the ban gun crime and deaths have increased because of the criminal use and ease by which they are being obtained illegally.
As a shooter I have seen this happen and asked myself how is society becoming safer? Society is allowing individuals to become so detached from reality and isolated that they no longer have any morals, remorse or sense of self-worth. Yes we can keep on banning things but does this get to the root of the problems?
Many years ago we all needed each other to co-exist in harmony as human beings (apart from the odd world war), it used to be hard to function and exist without interacting with your neighbours . Now we have societies where you can live comfortably without any interaction, order food and supplies online and live off grid. Add to this the fantasy of roll playing and computer generated dream worlds and you have a recipe for disaster.
As a shooter I have seen this happen and asked myself how is society becoming safer? Society is allowing individuals to become so detached from reality and isolated that they no longer have any morals, remorse or sense of self-worth. Yes we can keep on banning things but does this get to the root of the problems?
Many years ago we all needed each other to co-exist in harmony as human beings (apart from the odd world war), it used to be hard to function and exist without interacting with your neighbours . Now we have societies where you can live comfortably without any interaction, order food and supplies online and live off grid. Add to this the fantasy of roll playing and computer generated dream worlds and you have a recipe for disaster.
as for the rest of the post i totally agree - its down to society and undividuals, but some maniacs will always slip the net - imagine how youd think if a physco gunned down your 5 year old daughter at school, when there was action previously that could have limited that risk?
17 December 2012, 11:33 PM
#97
What has the ban on semi-automatic handguns and rifles achieved in this country? Since the ban gun crime and deaths have increased because of the criminal use and ease by which they are being obtained illegally.
As a shooter I have seen this happen and asked myself how is society becoming safer? Society is allowing individuals to become so detached from reality and isolated that they no longer have any morals, remorse or sense of self-worth. Yes we can keep on banning things but does this get to the root of the problems?
Many years ago we all needed each other to co-exist in harmony as human beings (apart from the odd world war), it used to be hard to function and exist without interacting with your neighbours . Now we have societies where you can live comfortably without any interaction, order food and supplies online and live off grid. Add to this the fantasy of roll playing and computer generated dream worlds and you have a recipe for disaster.
As a shooter I have seen this happen and asked myself how is society becoming safer? Society is allowing individuals to become so detached from reality and isolated that they no longer have any morals, remorse or sense of self-worth. Yes we can keep on banning things but does this get to the root of the problems?
Many years ago we all needed each other to co-exist in harmony as human beings (apart from the odd world war), it used to be hard to function and exist without interacting with your neighbours . Now we have societies where you can live comfortably without any interaction, order food and supplies online and live off grid. Add to this the fantasy of roll playing and computer generated dream worlds and you have a recipe for disaster.
Thing is that, as a rule criminals shoot other criminals, this happened about half a mile from where I live,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-himself.html
No murder is a good thing but both of the protagonists here is a criminal of some description, or at least they have been accused a lot more than the rest of us, they arent six year old kids.
With the gun murder figures in the US, it is about 8700, add in accidental gun deaths and the figure avaerages out at 32,400 per year for the last 24 years, the US has a five times higher population than the UK, so would expect our figures to be roughly a fifth of that figure at 6480 firearms deaths but we only manage about 50 per year.
I do sympathise with sporting shooters as they are legislated against, what I dont like is the gun enthusiasts, the gun should be a tool to do a sport, not a way of collecting all the guns you have seen in the movies, the gun should be well maintaned but largely incidental like a Squash racket, I think men get too involved like we do with cars, it is too steeped in power and machismo for some people.
I agree that most teenage lads would be able to responsibly own and use a gun but young men, like they are with cars are a liability, I was one (some time ago) and I was a bundle of spunk and emotion, I can see how kids end up killing their parents over something trivial, the red mist comes down and all perspective goes out of the window, you only think of now and how you feel at that moment.
How many people die in the US due to infidelity, my brother in law used to go to a gun club in Stockport and someone was ******** someone elses wife, he shot the guy and then blew his brains out in the toilets, if that happens normally any altercation if just to blokes having a rather lame punch up, usually they just get a split lip and a black eye, but when guns are involved so is death.
I think that when there are guns, this will happen, someone will go postal and start killing like Derrick Bord two years ago, he had licensed weapons. I used to work as a developer o a Police firearms systems so saw the data and a lot got revoked for various reasons, a bit of an eye opener, the usual reason was someone making threats.
Guns will always exist, this will never stop but I think sensible moves can be made to limit the access for the group that is doing this kind of thing
17 December 2012, 11:47 PM
#98
Sod the twatting about with licences and safe storage, they need an outright ban full stop......it's not a god given right in any country to own a gun, even in America, it's just an old archaic constitutional agreement that CAN and SHOULD be changed, and make it illegal to own or buy personal use guns of any kind and usage should be restricted solely to gun clubs or professionally organised hunting events.
Sod the gun shops closing down and taking away a so called right of passage to own a gun, innocent school kids again lose their life because no one is prepared to tackle the issue head on, there shouldn't even be an arms amnesty option.
The only justice the parents, siblings and family members will ever see is an outright ban...the sooner the better IMO
Sod the gun shops closing down and taking away a so called right of passage to own a gun, innocent school kids again lose their life because no one is prepared to tackle the issue head on, there shouldn't even be an arms amnesty option.
The only justice the parents, siblings and family members will ever see is an outright ban...the sooner the better IMO
It's very easy for a Brit living in a country that's never in its history had widespread gun-ownership to pontificate on this subject, far harder for them to say something that has any practical relevance to the real-world situation in the US.
17 December 2012, 11:47 PM
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I think this could be the start of something in the US, these parents are won't let this one lie if it takes a lifetime despite the interviewees looking too composed
Isn't Heston dead yet, he ought to be
Isn't Heston dead yet, he ought to be
17 December 2012, 11:56 PM
#100
Thing is that, as a rule criminals shoot other criminals, this happened about half a mile from where I live,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-himself.html
No murder is a good thing but both of the protagonists here is a criminal of some description, or at least they have been accused a lot more than the rest of us, they arent six year old kids.
With the gun murder figures in the US, it is about 8700, add in accidental gun deaths and the figure avaerages out at 32,400 per year for the last 24 years, the US has a five times higher population than the UK, so would expect our figures to be roughly a fifth of that figure at 6480 firearms deaths but we only manage about 50 per year.
I do sympathise with sporting shooters as they are legislated against, what I dont like is the gun enthusiasts, the gun should be a tool to do a sport, not a way of collecting all the guns you have seen in the movies, the gun should be well maintaned but largely incidental like a Squash racket, I think men get too involved like we do with cars, it is too steeped in power and machismo for some people.
I agree that most teenage lads would be able to responsibly own and use a gun but young men, like they are with cars are a liability, I was one (some time ago) and I was a bundle of spunk and emotion, I can see how kids end up killing their parents over something trivial, the red mist comes down and all perspective goes out of the window, you only think of now and how you feel at that moment.
How many people die in the US due to infidelity, my brother in law used to go to a gun club in Stockport and someone was ******** someone elses wife, he shot the guy and then blew his brains out in the toilets, if that happens normally any altercation if just to blokes having a rather lame punch up, usually they just get a split lip and a black eye, but when guns are involved so is death.
I think that when there are guns, this will happen, someone will go postal and start killing like Derrick Bord two years ago, he had licensed weapons. I used to work as a developer o a Police firearms systems so saw the data and a lot got revoked for various reasons, a bit of an eye opener, the usual reason was someone making threats.
Guns will always exist, this will never stop but I think sensible moves can be made to limit the access for the group that is doing this kind of thing
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-himself.html
No murder is a good thing but both of the protagonists here is a criminal of some description, or at least they have been accused a lot more than the rest of us, they arent six year old kids.
With the gun murder figures in the US, it is about 8700, add in accidental gun deaths and the figure avaerages out at 32,400 per year for the last 24 years, the US has a five times higher population than the UK, so would expect our figures to be roughly a fifth of that figure at 6480 firearms deaths but we only manage about 50 per year.
I do sympathise with sporting shooters as they are legislated against, what I dont like is the gun enthusiasts, the gun should be a tool to do a sport, not a way of collecting all the guns you have seen in the movies, the gun should be well maintaned but largely incidental like a Squash racket, I think men get too involved like we do with cars, it is too steeped in power and machismo for some people.
I agree that most teenage lads would be able to responsibly own and use a gun but young men, like they are with cars are a liability, I was one (some time ago) and I was a bundle of spunk and emotion, I can see how kids end up killing their parents over something trivial, the red mist comes down and all perspective goes out of the window, you only think of now and how you feel at that moment.
How many people die in the US due to infidelity, my brother in law used to go to a gun club in Stockport and someone was ******** someone elses wife, he shot the guy and then blew his brains out in the toilets, if that happens normally any altercation if just to blokes having a rather lame punch up, usually they just get a split lip and a black eye, but when guns are involved so is death.
I think that when there are guns, this will happen, someone will go postal and start killing like Derrick Bord two years ago, he had licensed weapons. I used to work as a developer o a Police firearms systems so saw the data and a lot got revoked for various reasons, a bit of an eye opener, the usual reason was someone making threats.
Guns will always exist, this will never stop but I think sensible moves can be made to limit the access for the group that is doing this kind of thing
18 December 2012, 12:35 AM
#101
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Criminals don’t only kill other criminals, increasingly they will kill whoever gets in their way. The real problem seems to be no fear of retribution or punishment from the criminal justice systems? No fear of eternal damnation from a higher being or religion in this life or the next? It’s not surprising that a tiny minority are going to commit such atrocities.
From pirates to junkie’s desperate people will resort to desperate measures, does banning class A drugs stop the misuse of drugs? Will banning guns stop innocent people being killed?
From pirates to junkie’s desperate people will resort to desperate measures, does banning class A drugs stop the misuse of drugs? Will banning guns stop innocent people being killed?
18 December 2012, 07:34 AM
#102
Criminals don’t only kill other criminals, increasingly they will kill whoever gets in their way. The real problem seems to be no fear of retribution or punishment from the criminal justice systems? No fear of eternal damnation from a higher being or religion in this life or the next? It’s not surprising that a tiny minority are going to commit such atrocities.
From pirates to junkie’s desperate people will resort to desperate measures, does banning class A drugs stop the misuse of drugs? Will banning guns stop innocent people being killed?
From pirates to junkie’s desperate people will resort to desperate measures, does banning class A drugs stop the misuse of drugs? Will banning guns stop innocent people being killed?
Sure as hell can't go on with a massacre of kids per month and nobody doing anything.
18 December 2012, 07:54 AM
#103
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"as much as she's needed here and missed by her mother brother and me, Ana beat us all to paradise"
The words of a father, sorry but I find them chilling for all sorts of reasons
And a good illustration why, in my view very little will change in the US
The words of a father, sorry but I find them chilling for all sorts of reasons
And a good illustration why, in my view very little will change in the US
18 December 2012, 11:07 AM
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Would you point this out to the father if you were within speaking distance, Hodgy?
18 December 2012, 11:15 AM
#106
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18 December 2012, 11:20 AM
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Let's face it, they are fvcked
I just laugh when I heard a parent say "I thought Newtown was the safest place in America"
They are living in a fantasy world, when you can buy an assault rifle in the local supermarket capable of firing 60 rouns a min
And the comparison with canada and Switzerland is laughable, a better comparison would be sierra leone
I just laugh when I heard a parent say "I thought Newtown was the safest place in America"
They are living in a fantasy world, when you can buy an assault rifle in the local supermarket capable of firing 60 rouns a min
And the comparison with canada and Switzerland is laughable, a better comparison would be sierra leone
Colorado you can walk around town with your pistol holstered on your belt like a cop.
18 December 2012, 11:23 AM
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I believe a lot of the US shootings are accidental & suicide. Sure I read somewhere that of all murders only 300 were carried out with rifles (assume that covers assault and hunting types) and many hundreds more with pistols & shotguns.
18 December 2012, 11:32 AM
#110
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I believe full automatic weapons are banned in Connecticut state but as they are not banned at federal level (prior ban ran out in 2004) then nothing to stopping you doing a bit of shopping out of state - bizarre.
Colorado you can walk around town with your pistol holstered on your belt like a cop.
Colorado you can walk around town with your pistol holstered on your belt like a cop.
but maybe with little toddlers -- who presumably were routed to the spot
a fully automatic would have been more affective
18 December 2012, 11:41 AM
#111
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If you're picturing a rack of M16 or AK47 type weapons lined-up on her sitting-room wall, you'd be very much mistaken (although given the spin these things get in the media, understandably so). What she actually owned was a number of semi-automatic firing rifles, which would have looked pretty much identical to any ordinary hunting rifle, with the sole exception of the larger capacity magazines.
http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp
People think we have nothing like that in the UK but you can get AR15 replicas in the same calibre only difference being they are bolt action so single shot. You can even kit them out with scopes, bipods and silencers.
You can also apply for multishot (that hold & fire more than 3 rounds) semi-auto shotguns on a Section 1 Firearms cert allowing pump or semi-auto shotguns and can fire slugs (solid ball of shot rather than lots of little *****).
As has been mentioned its the culture the US have going back to the days of the wild west. In the US every other person has a firearm. If you have asked 100 people in the UK if they even had a shotgun I am sure that most would say no unless they work on a farm, hunt or shoot clays.
18 December 2012, 11:43 AM
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A bizarre point. Have you been comparing most people shot per shooting mode? Fully automatic weapons would usually have a semi-auto and single shot setting anyway.
18 December 2012, 11:49 AM
#113
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yes a bizarre point -- but killing 20 children in a primary school is bizarre which ever way you look at it
18 December 2012, 12:37 PM
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Can only be a good thing of course.
Les
18 December 2012, 08:41 PM
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An easy mistake to make if you are an American citizen, due to the fact that they have little interest in international current affairs.
Been to the US on numerous occasions and I have noticed that most US national news media only reports on local or US national news.
If you need to know what’s going on elsewhere in the world or in the UK you have to go on the internet.
They are living in a bubble, albiet a fecking big one.
18 December 2012, 08:45 PM
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Looks like the recent events have resulted in a gun sales surge 
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...icut-massacre/
Nik.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...icut-massacre/
Nik.
18 December 2012, 09:14 PM
#117
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And quite sweet the AR 15 is a top seller again, after proving itself in the classrooms of Newtown
"The prospect of a renewed assault weapons ban in the wake of the Connecticut school massacre has set of a round of buying, as thousands of Americans head to their local gun store to secure the popular AR-15 -- the model used by the school gunman -- before potential government prohibitions on their purchase."
"The prospect of a renewed assault weapons ban in the wake of the Connecticut school massacre has set of a round of buying, as thousands of Americans head to their local gun store to secure the popular AR-15 -- the model used by the school gunman -- before potential government prohibitions on their purchase."
19 December 2012, 12:16 PM
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What I was alluding to is the fact that there is no such place as West Germany anymore, that is why I was questioning the currency.
An easy mistake to make if you are an American citizen, due to the fact that they have little interest in international current affairs.
Been to the US on numerous occasions and I have noticed that most US national news media only reports on local or US national news.
If you need to know what’s going on elsewhere in the world or in the UK you have to go on the internet.
They are living in a bubble, albiet a fecking big one.
An easy mistake to make if you are an American citizen, due to the fact that they have little interest in international current affairs.
Been to the US on numerous occasions and I have noticed that most US national news media only reports on local or US national news.
If you need to know what’s going on elsewhere in the world or in the UK you have to go on the internet.
They are living in a bubble, albiet a fecking big one.
That said I hear this "yanks don't know anything outside the US". When I have travelled to the US the people I speak to seem more knowledgeable about world affairs than many in the UK. Maybe its where I go and I am not taking into account the hill billies in the south
21 December 2012, 05:57 PM
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It`s all going to be ok. The NRA today announce that they want to put armed police officers in all schools and allow the teachers to be armed. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...tect-students/ Seems the answer to the gun problem is more guns 
Last edited by wayne9t9; 21 December 2012 at 05:58 PM.
