I Can't Take No More
21 December 2012, 03:31 PM
#31
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Another I can't believe what I read thread
Am I missing somthing here
I'm guessing you've got standard internals on you're car ?
If so why have you been recommended the parts you've had fitted
Fair enough you have had parts fitted to support future mods and power , but they are of little use on you're car running standard internals because you are running a serious risk of damage if you're car is pushed to a power level were the new parts will be of most benefit
Imho it seems like you've been ill advised and spent money needlessly
And even more so being you're only transport
If you intend modding a scooby i would strongly advise having another vehicle because in standard form they can throw a wobbly never mind when you start modding em
Am I missing somthing here
I'm guessing you've got standard internals on you're car ?
If so why have you been recommended the parts you've had fitted
Fair enough you have had parts fitted to support future mods and power , but they are of little use on you're car running standard internals because you are running a serious risk of damage if you're car is pushed to a power level were the new parts will be of most benefit
Imho it seems like you've been ill advised and spent money needlessly
And even more so being you're only transport
If you intend modding a scooby i would strongly advise having another vehicle because in standard form they can throw a wobbly never mind when you start modding em
22 December 2012, 12:26 AM
#32
Now thats what I call a first class service from a tuner !!
feel for you mate ...but sh*t happens in life , take it as a lesson and be wiser in the future , i had a similar "lesson" a few years back with my P1(after a £11k rebuild).
Last edited by bighead; 22 December 2012 at 12:32 AM.
22 December 2012, 08:47 AM
#34
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But why install those mods to the ops car ?
IMHO it was pointless and he had little to gain by doing so
And sh*t shouldn't happen , why among Subaru owners does it become acceptable to spend large sums of money on rebuilds and then fail
If you're modding / pushing an old motor then yes be prepared
But if it's a fresh build then no and if I had spent 1000s and it failed no way would I class it as a lesson , if an engine goes after a build it's poor workmanship or poor choice of components old or new and the final set up
Either way it's the builders fault
22 December 2012, 11:01 AM
#35
First of all no two ways about it rcm know Subaru
But why install those mods to the ops car ?
IMHO it was pointless and he had little to gain by doing so
And sh*t shouldn't happen , why among Subaru owners does it become acceptable to spend large sums of money on rebuilds and then fail
If you're modding / pushing an old motor then yes be prepared
But if it's a fresh build then no and if I had spent 1000s and it failed no way would I class it as a lesson , if an engine goes after a build it's poor workmanship or poor choice of components old or new and the final set up
Either way it's the builders fault
But why install those mods to the ops car ?
IMHO it was pointless and he had little to gain by doing so
And sh*t shouldn't happen , why among Subaru owners does it become acceptable to spend large sums of money on rebuilds and then fail
If you're modding / pushing an old motor then yes be prepared
But if it's a fresh build then no and if I had spent 1000s and it failed no way would I class it as a lesson , if an engine goes after a build it's poor workmanship or poor choice of components old or new and the final set up
Either way it's the builders fault
So if someone has a fresh engine and its being run in and that person abuses it bouncing it off the limiter everywhere and damages it then that is the responsibility of the builder?
or if the person runs it low on oil and damages it then that is the responsibility of the builder?
or if that person has it mapped by someone who maps it poorly that is the engine builders fault?
22 December 2012, 11:49 AM
#36
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what nonsense.
So if someone has a fresh engine and its being run in and that person abuses it bouncing it off the limiter everywhere and damages it then that is the responsibility of the builder?
or if the person runs it low on oil and damages it then that is the responsibility of the builder?
or if that person has it mapped by someone who maps it poorly that is the engine builders fault?
So if someone has a fresh engine and its being run in and that person abuses it bouncing it off the limiter everywhere and damages it then that is the responsibility of the builder?
or if the person runs it low on oil and damages it then that is the responsibility of the builder?
or if that person has it mapped by someone who maps it poorly that is the engine builders fault?
, there are guys on here that have had motors built and it's had a very short lifespan , even routine servicing and then had engine failure
Who are not stupid and know how to deal with their car
Why do you refuse to except that mistakes and bad decisions are made by company's and unless you have good knowledge of engine building you're never gonna know the cause ( it's down to the company's honesty )
Have you never made a mistake or bad decision that's resulted in somthing going pear shaped ?
Because if you havnt you're one of the few folk in the world that are truly perfect
So you're saying every single build on every engine by every engine builder is gonna give good service provided its treated properly ?
Never gonna happen
22 December 2012, 11:55 AM
#37
what are you waffling on about now, just accept the facts that both user and builder can be responsible for a failure and each case would be different by its own individual merits.
its not rocket science in all honesty. You are arguing with yourself by the sounds of it and trying to prove a point which is non existent.
its not rocket science in all honesty. You are arguing with yourself by the sounds of it and trying to prove a point which is non existent.
22 December 2012, 12:17 PM
#38
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what are you waffling on about now, just accept the facts that both user and builder can be responsible for a failure and each case would be different by its own individual merits.
its not rocket science in all honesty. You are arguing with yourself by the sounds of it and trying to prove a point which is non existent.
its not rocket science in all honesty. You are arguing with yourself by the sounds of it and trying to prove a point which is non existent.
My point was s**t shouldn't happen after an 11k rebuild
Get it ?
22 December 2012, 12:20 PM
#39
it should not happen but it does, and could be down to a million factors, your comment and I quote
"if an engine goes after a build it's poor workmanship or poor choice of components old or new and the final set up
Either way it's the builders fault "
is utterly ridiculous and therefore I have nothing more to add as you have made yourself look a bit silly.
"if an engine goes after a build it's poor workmanship or poor choice of components old or new and the final set up
Either way it's the builders fault "
is utterly ridiculous and therefore I have nothing more to add as you have made yourself look a bit silly.
22 December 2012, 12:48 PM
#40
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Obviously my statement would go without saying mistreatment is an exception
But I thought you would understand that
Also a would credit Somone who's put £1000s into a motor with a little intelligence
You obviously don't
As for looking silly , c'est la vie
One day I may be as perfect as you
But I thought you would understand that
Also a would credit Somone who's put £1000s into a motor with a little intelligence
You obviously don't
As for looking silly , c'est la vie
One day I may be as perfect as you
22 December 2012, 03:33 PM
#42
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22 December 2012, 03:52 PM
#43
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If I spent 11k on a rebuild I would expect it to last for ever what ever the driving style!
11k on a rebuild and you say **** happens, probably why some engine builders charge so much, why is it people are prepared to spend big money and then shrug there shoulders when the engine blows,we are talking 11 thousand pound for christs sake!!!
Obviously regular servicing is a must and to contradict myself you shouldn't rag it from cold , cool down turbo etc
This is why scoobys have a bad rep, no it's not acceptable to spend thousands and the bloody engine blows up but that's IMHO .
11k on a rebuild and you say **** happens, probably why some engine builders charge so much, why is it people are prepared to spend big money and then shrug there shoulders when the engine blows,we are talking 11 thousand pound for christs sake!!!
Obviously regular servicing is a must and to contradict myself you shouldn't rag it from cold , cool down turbo etc
This is why scoobys have a bad rep, no it's not acceptable to spend thousands and the bloody engine blows up but that's IMHO .
Last edited by STEVEBOXER; 22 December 2012 at 04:05 PM.
22 December 2012, 04:05 PM
#44
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£3,200 on a £2,000 Scooby (obviously one with a dodgy history) ..... and it's cost you £6500 so far??????????????
I don't want to state the obvious - but, you could have bought a very decent later Impreza for that - maybe one with 1 owner and impeccable service history.
You cannot do these cars cheap ..... it doesn't happen.
I'm surprised that RCM took £3200 off you to 'bring up to scratch' - when it must have been clear it was a shed ....... and 3 weeks later it all goes wrong?
I don't want to state the obvious - but, you could have bought a very decent later Impreza for that - maybe one with 1 owner and impeccable service history.
You cannot do these cars cheap ..... it doesn't happen.
I'm surprised that RCM took £3200 off you to 'bring up to scratch' - when it must have been clear it was a shed ....... and 3 weeks later it all goes wrong?
22 December 2012, 04:06 PM
#45
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If I spent 11k on a rebuild I would expect it to last for ever what ever the driving style!
11k on a rebuild and you say **** happens, probably why engine builders charge so much, why is it people are prepared to spend big money and then shrug there shoulders when the engine blows,we are talking 11 thousand pound for christs sake!!!
Obviously regular servicing is a must and to contradict myself you shouldn't rag it from cold , cool down turbo etc
This is why scoobys have a bad rep, no it's not acceptable to spend thousands and the bloody engine blows up but that's IMHO .
11k on a rebuild and you say **** happens, probably why engine builders charge so much, why is it people are prepared to spend big money and then shrug there shoulders when the engine blows,we are talking 11 thousand pound for christs sake!!!
Obviously regular servicing is a must and to contradict myself you shouldn't rag it from cold , cool down turbo etc
This is why scoobys have a bad rep, no it's not acceptable to spend thousands and the bloody engine blows up but that's IMHO .
You're gonna
A ) put oil in it
B) spend an extra few quid getting it mapped
C) treat it with some kind of care , ie take it steady during run in , not bounce it off the limiter
But apparently most don't , so I stand corrected and it's 11k well spent
Pmsl
22 December 2012, 04:11 PM
#46
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£3,200 on a £2,000 Scooby (obviously one with a dodgy history) ..... and it's cost you £6500 so far??????????????
I don't want to state the obvious - but, you could have bought a very decent later Impreza for that - maybe one with 1 owner and impeccable service history.
You cannot do these cars cheap ..... it doesn't happen.
I'm surprised that RCM took £3200 off you to 'bring up to scratch' - when it must have been clear it was a shed ....... and 3 weeks later it all goes wrong?
I don't want to state the obvious - but, you could have bought a very decent later Impreza for that - maybe one with 1 owner and impeccable service history.
You cannot do these cars cheap ..... it doesn't happen.
I'm surprised that RCM took £3200 off you to 'bring up to scratch' - when it must have been clear it was a shed ....... and 3 weeks later it all goes wrong?
Who cares its only money , it's the norm with scoobys and to be accepted
22 December 2012, 04:16 PM
#47
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To be honest, I could see any CC Judge in the land taking the side of a punter advised to spend £3,200 to sort out a car - then, 3 weeks later it has failed.
22 December 2012, 04:17 PM
#48
toneh, you seem to have missed the point a bit and find it hard to grasp it.
Whether the engine rebuild costs 2k with standard parts or whether it is a full on 2.35 full works rebuild an engine failure could occur through many different variables so it is impossible to just state its accepted and pinpoint the blame to one area.
Yes i am sure you would keep an eye on the oil, yes i am sure you would get it remapped , whats to say that remap is not bad and the cause of the failure? thats neither builder nor owners fault.
whats to say any number of the parts fitted fail and cause the engine failure? oil pumps and so on etc, again thats no fault of the owner or builder.
If course it is not acceptable to pay thousands for an engine to go pop IF the fault was due to the builder however the fact is there are so many instances and variables it is just impossible to blame anyone.
funny you mention about your third point above, i have read no less then 2 or 3 threads on this forum in my time where people have nailed their car within the run in period on here (one of them whilst on mineral oil) so yes it is quite possible owners could be responsible, or that they have used the wrong fuel in which their car is mapped for.
get off your high horse and stop making such ridiculous unfounded sweeping statements.
Whether the engine rebuild costs 2k with standard parts or whether it is a full on 2.35 full works rebuild an engine failure could occur through many different variables so it is impossible to just state its accepted and pinpoint the blame to one area.
Yes i am sure you would keep an eye on the oil, yes i am sure you would get it remapped , whats to say that remap is not bad and the cause of the failure? thats neither builder nor owners fault.
whats to say any number of the parts fitted fail and cause the engine failure? oil pumps and so on etc, again thats no fault of the owner or builder.
If course it is not acceptable to pay thousands for an engine to go pop IF the fault was due to the builder however the fact is there are so many instances and variables it is just impossible to blame anyone.
funny you mention about your third point above, i have read no less then 2 or 3 threads on this forum in my time where people have nailed their car within the run in period on here (one of them whilst on mineral oil) so yes it is quite possible owners could be responsible, or that they have used the wrong fuel in which their car is mapped for.
get off your high horse and stop making such ridiculous unfounded sweeping statements.
22 December 2012, 04:32 PM
#49
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toneh, you seem to have missed the point a bit and find it hard to grasp it.
Whether the engine rebuild costs 2k with standard parts or whether it is a full on 2.35 full works rebuild an engine failure could occur through many different variables so it is impossible to just state its accepted and pinpoint the blame to one area.
Yes i am sure you would keep an eye on the oil, yes i am sure you would get it remapped , whats to say that remap is not bad and the cause of the failure? thats neither builder nor owners fault.
whats to say any number of the parts fitted fail and cause the engine failure? oil pumps and so on etc, again thats no fault of the owner or builder.
If course it is not acceptable to pay thousands for an engine to go pop IF the fault was due to the builder however the fact is there are so many instances and variables it is just impossible to blame anyone.
funny you mention about your third point above, i have read no less then 2 or 3 threads on this forum in my time where people have nailed their car within the run in period on here (one of them whilst on mineral oil) so yes it is quite possible owners could be responsible, or that they have used the wrong fuel in which their car is mapped for.
get off your high horse and stop making such ridiculous unfounded sweeping statements.
Whether the engine rebuild costs 2k with standard parts or whether it is a full on 2.35 full works rebuild an engine failure could occur through many different variables so it is impossible to just state its accepted and pinpoint the blame to one area.
Yes i am sure you would keep an eye on the oil, yes i am sure you would get it remapped , whats to say that remap is not bad and the cause of the failure? thats neither builder nor owners fault.
whats to say any number of the parts fitted fail and cause the engine failure? oil pumps and so on etc, again thats no fault of the owner or builder.
If course it is not acceptable to pay thousands for an engine to go pop IF the fault was due to the builder however the fact is there are so many instances and variables it is just impossible to blame anyone.
funny you mention about your third point above, i have read no less then 2 or 3 threads on this forum in my time where people have nailed their car within the run in period on here (one of them whilst on mineral oil) so yes it is quite possible owners could be responsible, or that they have used the wrong fuel in which their car is mapped for.
get off your high horse and stop making such ridiculous unfounded sweeping statements.
And my response was to big heads post about an 11k rebuild
And the comment
Now I may have wrongly assumed that he is a sensible chap , having spent all that money on a rebuild and then through his own fault Wrecked his motor
Only big head knows the answer
And my comments were also made in response to the op
Being led down a path he shouldn't
And then comments about how great olly is and the after care
It's totall , bulls**t
The op has been had , why on earth would any reputable tuner fit those parts to the ops car , it stinks of let's take him for a ride and look where it's left him
Yes the car could have blown anyway , but I'm damn sure the extra mods and mapping havnt helped
I make no bones about the fact I have complete distrust for most tuners ( no matter how big the name )
Some know the reason why , others don't
22 December 2012, 04:48 PM
#50
I am slightly confused, from my perspective they have not exactly fitted parts which are going to hike the power to a risky level on the engine? a manifold, downpipe, air filter and remap, is that not what most owners fit as basic modifications?
agreed the manifold maybe overkill at this power level, however I dont see anything there which would put the engine at risk? I am sure the OP would have been given the option to have the bits fitted beforehand.
However if an engine is goosed to begin with or tired then the above parts fitted may have only brought on an imminent engine failure sooner (OP may have been made aware of the risks before the work I dont know)
I just think its unfair to blame anyone without knowing the reasons for failure, if there is one thing for certain i am sure if the reason for failure WAS down to them then they will look after the OP as I can only see fantastic communication and service from them? (I have never used them so no I am not a fanboy), I hope the OP gets it sorted anyway and at minimal inconvenience/cost. good luck.
agreed the manifold maybe overkill at this power level, however I dont see anything there which would put the engine at risk? I am sure the OP would have been given the option to have the bits fitted beforehand.
However if an engine is goosed to begin with or tired then the above parts fitted may have only brought on an imminent engine failure sooner (OP may have been made aware of the risks before the work I dont know)
I just think its unfair to blame anyone without knowing the reasons for failure, if there is one thing for certain i am sure if the reason for failure WAS down to them then they will look after the OP as I can only see fantastic communication and service from them? (I have never used them so no I am not a fanboy), I hope the OP gets it sorted anyway and at minimal inconvenience/cost. good luck.
22 December 2012, 05:04 PM
#51
My two bobs worth, I am very capable of building engines, in fact thats what I do for a living working for a car manufacturer which is done on an industrial level.
There often comes a time when I have to do rebuilds on my own cars and I do not have the unlimited resources, specialised tools or facilities to DIY. It then puts me in the hands of a "professional" when paying £50 ph I do not expect a second rate job or quick fixes (I'm more than capable of bodging it myself thank you)
£3000 worth of engine work and it goes pop!
I would have advised you to spend a grand + on a rebuilt bottom end and if you needed exhaust and ancilliaries that you bought used or discounted.
Poor advice imo.
Why indeed should everyone accept that suburas are quirky and have to accept a **** service from "specialists"
There often comes a time when I have to do rebuilds on my own cars and I do not have the unlimited resources, specialised tools or facilities to DIY. It then puts me in the hands of a "professional" when paying £50 ph I do not expect a second rate job or quick fixes (I'm more than capable of bodging it myself thank you)
£3000 worth of engine work and it goes pop!
I would have advised you to spend a grand + on a rebuilt bottom end and if you needed exhaust and ancilliaries that you bought used or discounted.
Poor advice imo.
Why indeed should everyone accept that suburas are quirky and have to accept a **** service from "specialists"
22 December 2012, 06:03 PM
#52
guys chill!!, the £11k included other stuff 6speed box uprated parts etc etc ,
Barnshaw is correct as sh*t really do happen, mine was a 2.5 forged , ran in carefully for 1k miles on a run-in map before mapping for max bhp gain .
it wasn't a failure of the built engine , it was just the head lifting under extreme high boost (had arp head stud 11mm) was running 450-460bhp on a MD321T.
now i've learnt my lesson this 2.35 current engine is getting the arp 14mm headstuds
Barnshaw is correct as sh*t really do happen, mine was a 2.5 forged , ran in carefully for 1k miles on a run-in map before mapping for max bhp gain .
it wasn't a failure of the built engine , it was just the head lifting under extreme high boost (had arp head stud 11mm) was running 450-460bhp on a MD321T.
now i've learnt my lesson this 2.35 current engine is getting the arp 14mm headstuds
Last edited by bighead; 22 December 2012 at 09:58 PM.
22 December 2012, 06:07 PM
#53
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guys chill!!, the £11k included other stuff 6speed box uprated parts etc etc ,
Barnshaw is correct as sh*t really do happen, mine was a 2.5 forged , ran in carefully for 1k miles on a run-in map before mapping for max bhp gain .
it wasn't a failure of the built engine , it was just the head lifting under extreme high boost (had arp head stud 11mm) was running 450-460bhp on a MD321T.
now i've learnt my lesson this currant engine is getting the arp 14mm headstuds
Barnshaw is correct as sh*t really do happen, mine was a 2.5 forged , ran in carefully for 1k miles on a run-in map before mapping for max bhp gain .
it wasn't a failure of the built engine , it was just the head lifting under extreme high boost (had arp head stud 11mm) was running 450-460bhp on a MD321T.
now i've learnt my lesson this currant engine is getting the arp 14mm headstuds
We're the larger studs not available at the time of the build ?
22 December 2012, 06:12 PM
#54
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£3,200 on a £2,000 Scooby (obviously one with a dodgy history) ..... and it's cost you £6500 so far??????????????
I don't want to state the obvious - but, you could have bought a very decent later Impreza for that - maybe one with 1 owner and impeccable service history.
You cannot do these cars cheap ..... it doesn't happen.
I'm surprised that RCM took £3200 off you to 'bring up to scratch' - when it must have been clear it was a shed ....... and 3 weeks later it all goes wrong?
I don't want to state the obvious - but, you could have bought a very decent later Impreza for that - maybe one with 1 owner and impeccable service history.
You cannot do these cars cheap ..... it doesn't happen.
I'm surprised that RCM took £3200 off you to 'bring up to scratch' - when it must have been clear it was a shed ....... and 3 weeks later it all goes wrong?
I started at RCM with a issue I wanted a 2nd option on 3 years later I have a 2.35 monster and I wouldn’t take her anywhere else.
Olly always spells out the options and costs and you decided what you want / can afford! they Do not do hard selling and normally have a waiting list of people wanting their time.
Last edited by F1 CJE UK; 22 December 2012 at 06:14 PM.
22 December 2012, 06:29 PM
#57
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No they wouldn't , but like you say they are the country's top Subaru specialist
So taking that into account should they have sold the op induction bits and headers for a car that is not capable of using them , Total waste of the ops money
So taking that into account should they have sold the op induction bits and headers for a car that is not capable of using them , Total waste of the ops money
22 December 2012, 06:31 PM
#58
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Unfortunately there is an inherent risk when modifying and uprating the performance of any car, but perhaps the Impreza does seem a little more fragile than most cars.
You pays your money and takes your chances as they say.
Even the best tuners out there have problems, but as nobody knew the health of the OP's engine without stripping it to check for condition then I believe it's just bad luck.
You pays your money and takes your chances as they say.
Even the best tuners out there have problems, but as nobody knew the health of the OP's engine without stripping it to check for condition then I believe it's just bad luck.
22 December 2012, 10:05 PM
#59
and the heads needed modiflying to fit the bigger studs.now the 2.35 is getting the bigger studs so hopefully cope better .
re: RCM's work on OP's car, i think if you are going to change part might as well upgrade at the same time ( I know I would).
also RCM's did not cause he's engine to fail ..maybe it just wear and tear as it not exactly a spring chicken age wise is it !
Last edited by bighead; 22 December 2012 at 10:06 PM.
22 December 2012, 10:09 PM
#60
perhaps he can clear that up ....OP ?
by the way have you guys read the thread about the slagging match going on the MLR forum ?..it not just Subaru tuners that **** up
Last edited by bighead; 22 December 2012 at 10:12 PM.