Economy - Osborne had better find another building site...
13 January 2013, 06:59 PM
#31
The decline in industry always begins with a Labour government. According to the ONS there was a sharper decline in manufacturing under labour than anytime during the 80's under Thatcher. In fact ONS shows that the decline was three times faster under Blair/Brown than under Thatcher. The rot set in for the motor, steel and coal industry in the 70's when Labour were in power for example and now we find the decline in the financial sector also began under a Labour government.
Fine, but where did all those factories and plants go? And why? Its canny that it thrived in the 50's and 60's, fell to pieces in the late 60's and 70's, boomed in the 80's and early 90's (with a hiccup inbetween) and fell apart in the late 90's and 2000s
So much was made round here in the last century, much with global recognition and all British owned companies of which I can reel off countless names and brands associated with my locality, even in the 80's....Yet today, I struggle to think of barely ten, and most of the bigger ones are foriegn owned anyway. Sad times
Last edited by ALi-B; 13 January 2013 at 07:33 PM.
13 January 2013, 07:14 PM
#32
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What does that even mean? It's nothing more than a piece of rhetoric. Are you saying Margaret Thatcher actually altered the intrinsic mentality of the British public, or that she simply gave the same thing a different outlet, the result of which you seem to despise.
You have a rose-tinted view of the Britain before Thatcher. The fact is that greed was on display to an almost repellent degree in the union-plagued British industry of the '70s. Something had to change. She meant well. And if there are any long-term consequences suffered now as a result of her policies, you cannot expect her government to have been able to anticipate them.
You have a rose-tinted view of the Britain before Thatcher. The fact is that greed was on display to an almost repellent degree in the union-plagued British industry of the '70s. Something had to change. She meant well. And if there are any long-term consequences suffered now as a result of her policies, you cannot expect her government to have been able to anticipate them.
For instance here is a nice little sequence of events.... she made home ownership something not just aspirational, but almost a judgement of your status in life. She did this in part by fuelling the selling off of council houses at way below market rates to make the lower paid think they could own their own house and to make the better paid feel they had to. When this created a housing boom and then the mortgage rates went through the roof (16.4% in 1989) all of a sudden families needed masses of extra money to keep the roof over their heads meaning both parents in a lot of cases had to work leaving less time for their children and the start of the resultant mess of a broken society you see today. Coupled to all that is now the fact that many more houses are in the hands of private landlords than used to be the case and their extortionate rents are being picked up in a lot of cases by the benefits system... and so on and so forth.
We can discuss yuppies, the city, the move to financial services as a cornerstone of Britain's economy, privatisation of all essential services for way less than their real value to make her voters 'rich' etc. etc. She brainwashed the Britsih public to a large extent and if you don't believe me just look up the number of private individuals who bought BP shares when she privatised that depsiate the fact that even the companies dealing in the share applications were telling them the shares would open at about 60% of their value on day one and if they really wanted them to buy them then and not waste their lifesavings in some cases.
Don't get me wrong the 70s were ****, but nothing since then has really made things intrinsically better and at least then we had a society! Look at the uber mess we are in now!
13 January 2013, 07:18 PM
#33
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13 January 2013, 08:27 PM
#34
It's funny how hatred of the Tories nearly always harks back to Thatcher's era. But for those old enough to remember, you have to think back a little further to get a grasp of what she actually achieved and what was displaced. Fair enough during the 50's and 60's the nation was still the throws of rebuilding itself from the world wars; when everyone, including politicians, was actually "all in it together" to get the country back on it's feet.
But I'm just about old enough to remember what we had in the seventies when Labour were in office; constant strikes and power cuts, 3 day weeks and inflation. We were a nation that was outperformed by every European country, had massive debts and over borrowing cap in had to the IMF on several occasions, Britain was broken.
As F1 already pointed out, the emergence of other economies which brought about cheaper products helped kill off some of the industries we used to be great at. This is the by product of the changing scale and shift of the global economy, the world was changing and we had to adapt. Thatcher recognised that UK could no longer sustain and continue to subsidise industries that we can no longer compete in. Where others before her failed, she had the ***** to say no to the powerful unions that wrecked havoc to our manufacturing industry and during her time in office, pulled the UK out of the myre it was stuck in for the past generation and as a result we outgrew every European country. Despite the tax cuts she brought in, revenues rose, the country's debt was paid and contrary to all the lefties belief, public spending actually increased, encouraged the growth of small businesses and private enterprises and of course securing sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. I would say she laid the foundations of how great this country as become on the global stage; she helped end the Cold War and built strong lasting relations with two worlds super powers of that era that still stands today.
For me Thatcher is one of the greatest political figures this country has had in office and set the foundations to make this country one of the most prosperous in the world. Blair and Brown and all the current crop loathsome politicians that currently sit in parliament doesn't even come close to what she has achieved. So it's sad to see today fragility of such a great leader of our nation and her mind ravaged by dementia.
But I'm just about old enough to remember what we had in the seventies when Labour were in office; constant strikes and power cuts, 3 day weeks and inflation. We were a nation that was outperformed by every European country, had massive debts and over borrowing cap in had to the IMF on several occasions, Britain was broken.
As F1 already pointed out, the emergence of other economies which brought about cheaper products helped kill off some of the industries we used to be great at. This is the by product of the changing scale and shift of the global economy, the world was changing and we had to adapt. Thatcher recognised that UK could no longer sustain and continue to subsidise industries that we can no longer compete in. Where others before her failed, she had the ***** to say no to the powerful unions that wrecked havoc to our manufacturing industry and during her time in office, pulled the UK out of the myre it was stuck in for the past generation and as a result we outgrew every European country. Despite the tax cuts she brought in, revenues rose, the country's debt was paid and contrary to all the lefties belief, public spending actually increased, encouraged the growth of small businesses and private enterprises and of course securing sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. I would say she laid the foundations of how great this country as become on the global stage; she helped end the Cold War and built strong lasting relations with two worlds super powers of that era that still stands today.
For me Thatcher is one of the greatest political figures this country has had in office and set the foundations to make this country one of the most prosperous in the world. Blair and Brown and all the current crop loathsome politicians that currently sit in parliament doesn't even come close to what she has achieved. So it's sad to see today fragility of such a great leader of our nation and her mind ravaged by dementia.
13 January 2013, 08:51 PM
#36
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It's funny how hatred of the Tories nearly always harks back to Thatcher's era. But for those old enough to remember, you have to think back a little further to get a grasp of what she actually achieved and what was displaced. Fair enough during the 50's and 60's the nation was still the throws of rebuilding itself from the world wars; when everyone, including politicians, was actually "all in it together" to get the country back on it's feet.
But I'm just about old enough to remember what we had in the seventies when Labour were in office; constant strikes and power cuts, 3 day weeks and inflation. We were a nation that was outperformed by every European country, had massive debts and over borrowing cap in had to the IMF on several occasions, Britain was broken.
As F1 already pointed out, the emergence of other economies which brought about cheaper products helped kill off some of the industries we used to be great at. This is the by product of the changing scale and shift of the global economy, the world was changing and we had to adapt. Thatcher recognised that UK could no longer sustain and continue to subsidise industries that we can no longer compete in. Where others before her failed, she had the ***** to say no to the powerful unions that wrecked havoc to our manufacturing industry and during her time in office, pulled the UK out of the myre it was stuck in for the past generation and as a result we outgrew every European country. Despite the tax cuts she brought in, revenues rose, the country's debt was paid and contrary to all the lefties belief, public spending actually increased, encouraged the growth of small businesses and private enterprises and of course securing sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. I would say she laid the foundations of how great this country as become on the global stage; she helped end the Cold War and built strong lasting relations with two worlds super powers of that era that still stands today.
For me Thatcher is one of the greatest political figures this country has had in office and set the foundations to make this country one of the most prosperous in the world. Blair and Brown and all the current crop loathsome politicians that currently sit in parliament doesn't even come close to what she has achieved. So it's sad to see today fragility of such a great leader of our nation and her mind ravaged by dementia.
But I'm just about old enough to remember what we had in the seventies when Labour were in office; constant strikes and power cuts, 3 day weeks and inflation. We were a nation that was outperformed by every European country, had massive debts and over borrowing cap in had to the IMF on several occasions, Britain was broken.
As F1 already pointed out, the emergence of other economies which brought about cheaper products helped kill off some of the industries we used to be great at. This is the by product of the changing scale and shift of the global economy, the world was changing and we had to adapt. Thatcher recognised that UK could no longer sustain and continue to subsidise industries that we can no longer compete in. Where others before her failed, she had the ***** to say no to the powerful unions that wrecked havoc to our manufacturing industry and during her time in office, pulled the UK out of the myre it was stuck in for the past generation and as a result we outgrew every European country. Despite the tax cuts she brought in, revenues rose, the country's debt was paid and contrary to all the lefties belief, public spending actually increased, encouraged the growth of small businesses and private enterprises and of course securing sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. I would say she laid the foundations of how great this country as become on the global stage; she helped end the Cold War and built strong lasting relations with two worlds super powers of that era that still stands today.
For me Thatcher is one of the greatest political figures this country has had in office and set the foundations to make this country one of the most prosperous in the world. Blair and Brown and all the current crop loathsome politicians that currently sit in parliament doesn't even come close to what she has achieved. So it's sad to see today fragility of such a great leader of our nation and her mind ravaged by dementia.
Better clean those rose tinteds This country has been on a downward spiral for 30 years. Sorry, but I remember all too well the 70s and the 80s and there wasn't a lot to chosoe between the overall.
Anyway none of this matters as with the previous and current lot we are all well and truly f**ked anyway.
Goodnight
Last edited by f1_fan; 13 January 2013 at 08:52 PM.
13 January 2013, 09:32 PM
#37
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It's funny how hatred of the Tories nearly always harks back to Thatcher's era. But for those old enough to remember, you have to think back a little further to get a grasp of what she actually achieved and what was displaced. Fair enough during the 50's and 60's the nation was still the throws of rebuilding itself from the world wars; when everyone, including politicians, was actually "all in it together" to get the country back on it's feet.
But I'm just about old enough to remember what we had in the seventies when Labour were in office; constant strikes and power cuts, 3 day weeks and inflation. We were a nation that was outperformed by every European country, had massive debts and over borrowing cap in had to the IMF on several occasions, Britain was broken.
As F1 already pointed out, the emergence of other economies which brought about cheaper products helped kill off some of the industries we used to be great at. This is the by product of the changing scale and shift of the global economy, the world was changing and we had to adapt. Thatcher recognised that UK could no longer sustain and continue to subsidise industries that we can no longer compete in. Where others before her failed, she had the ***** to say no to the powerful unions that wrecked havoc to our manufacturing industry and during her time in office, pulled the UK out of the myre it was stuck in for the past generation and as a result we outgrew every European country. Despite the tax cuts she brought in, revenues rose, the country's debt was paid and contrary to all the lefties belief, public spending actually increased, encouraged the growth of small businesses and private enterprises and of course securing sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. I would say she laid the foundations of how great this country as become on the global stage; she helped end the Cold War and built strong lasting relations with two worlds super powers of that era that still stands today.
For me Thatcher is one of the greatest political figures this country has had in office and set the foundations to make this country one of the most prosperous in the world. Blair and Brown and all the current crop loathsome politicians that currently sit in parliament doesn't even come close to what she has achieved. So it's sad to see today fragility of such a great leader of our nation and her mind ravaged by dementia.
But I'm just about old enough to remember what we had in the seventies when Labour were in office; constant strikes and power cuts, 3 day weeks and inflation. We were a nation that was outperformed by every European country, had massive debts and over borrowing cap in had to the IMF on several occasions, Britain was broken.
As F1 already pointed out, the emergence of other economies which brought about cheaper products helped kill off some of the industries we used to be great at. This is the by product of the changing scale and shift of the global economy, the world was changing and we had to adapt. Thatcher recognised that UK could no longer sustain and continue to subsidise industries that we can no longer compete in. Where others before her failed, she had the ***** to say no to the powerful unions that wrecked havoc to our manufacturing industry and during her time in office, pulled the UK out of the myre it was stuck in for the past generation and as a result we outgrew every European country. Despite the tax cuts she brought in, revenues rose, the country's debt was paid and contrary to all the lefties belief, public spending actually increased, encouraged the growth of small businesses and private enterprises and of course securing sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. I would say she laid the foundations of how great this country as become on the global stage; she helped end the Cold War and built strong lasting relations with two worlds super powers of that era that still stands today.
For me Thatcher is one of the greatest political figures this country has had in office and set the foundations to make this country one of the most prosperous in the world. Blair and Brown and all the current crop loathsome politicians that currently sit in parliament doesn't even come close to what she has achieved. So it's sad to see today fragility of such a great leader of our nation and her mind ravaged by dementia.
Problem we have now is that the usual politician hasn't ever had a real job, in the real world, and have only ever studied politics in Uni the hotbeds of socialist ideologies. They need to change the rules so that to be a politician you have to have atleast 10 years work outside of the political sphere. Take Millichump and *****-up they have only ever been involved in politics, so know not what the real world is.
Last edited by Jimbob; 13 January 2013 at 09:35 PM.
13 January 2013, 09:46 PM
#38
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That is exactly how I see it too.
Problem we have now is that the usual politician hasn't ever had a real job, in the real world, and have only ever studied politics in Uni the hotbeds of socialist ideologies. They need to change the rules so that to be a politician you have to have atleast 10 years work outside of the political sphere. Take Millichump and *****-up they have only ever been involved in politics, so know not what the real world is.
Problem we have now is that the usual politician hasn't ever had a real job, in the real world, and have only ever studied politics in Uni the hotbeds of socialist ideologies. They need to change the rules so that to be a politician you have to have atleast 10 years work outside of the political sphere. Take Millichump and *****-up they have only ever been involved in politics, so know not what the real world is.
15 January 2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by The Labour Party
The Labour Party was initially formed as a left-wing political party, but has moved further to the centre since then. Officially, it has maintained the stance of being a socialist party ever since its inception, part of the social democratic ideological trend that rose among sections of the working classes across Europe at the end of the 19th Century. The party currently describes itself as a "democratic socialist party". The most influential branch of socialism within the Labour Party, other than democratic socialism, has been ethical socialism, promoted most recently by Tony Blair. The party has been described as a broad church, containing a diversity of ideological trends from strongly socialist, to more moderately social democratic.
15 January 2013, 11:27 AM
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I could never support any Party that wanted / wants to introduce ID cards. The Plans by the current Coalition to introduce a law so that all your phone calls, emails etc etc are recorded. They'll be opening and copying your post next. How do we get consecutive Governments that wish to take away the personal freedoms of the law abiding and innocent?
15 January 2013, 11:56 AM
#42
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I could never support any Party that wanted / wants to introduce ID cards. The Plans by the current Coalition to introduce a law so that all your phone calls, emails etc etc are recorded. They'll be opening and copying your post next. How do we get consecutive Governments that wish to take away the personal freedoms of the law abiding and innocent?
BUT it has to go through a fair few hurdles first, and would not come in until 2015. And its a very similar system to what America has.
And usually would mainly be used to track say a paedophile after they have been caught, to track who they have been communicating with, and possibly catching a larger paedophile rings. The other route through live data, would be a know terrorist/murderer on the loose they could find out what he is saying via text messages, track his location if on a phone, and possibly even know his plans if he has emailed them to someone.
If used correctly then I agree with them being able to do this, BUT with a limit that the data can be kept for of 12 months like in the USA.
15 January 2013, 12:54 PM
#43
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I think it's your mind that is ravished by dementia given that speech Better clean those rose tinteds
This country has been on a downward spiral for 30 years. Sorry, but I remember all too well the 70s and the 80s and there wasn't a lot to chosoe between the overall.
Anyway none of this matters as with the previous and current lot we are all well and truly f**ked anyway.
Goodnight
Better clean those rose tinteds This country has been on a downward spiral for 30 years. Sorry, but I remember all too well the 70s and the 80s and there wasn't a lot to chosoe between the overall.
Anyway none of this matters as with the previous and current lot we are all well and truly f**ked anyway.
Goodnight
Les
15 January 2013, 05:38 PM
#44
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I could never support any Party that wanted / wants to introduce ID cards. The Plans by the current Coalition to introduce a law so that all your phone calls, emails etc etc are recorded. They'll be opening and copying your post next. How do we get consecutive Governments that wish to take away the personal freedoms of the law abiding and innocent?
They should be FREE and EVERYONE will have one.
Everyone will have their fingerprints taken and their DNA registered upon the card.
10 years in Prison if you refuse to co-operate.
Crime will decrease 90% and those who commit it will be identified within an hour.
If you have nothing to hide, you have no need for concern.
This would include ALL those Pikeys who don't want to be registered anywhere!!
Any non-resident will be deported fothwith if they fail to co-operate.
We would have a far better place to live!
I would also micro-chip every person in the country for tracking purposes.
Last edited by pslewis; 15 January 2013 at 05:39 PM.
15 January 2013, 06:17 PM
#45
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ID Cards SHOULD be introduced forthwith!!
They should be FREE and EVERYONE will have one.
Everyone will have their fingerprints taken and their DNA registered upon the card.
10 years in Prison if you refuse to co-operate.
Crime will decrease 90% and those who commit it will be identified within an hour.
If you have nothing to hide, you have no need for concern.
This would include ALL those Pikeys who don't want to be registered anywhere!!
Any non-resident will be deported fothwith if they fail to co-operate.
We would have a far better place to live!
I would also micro-chip every person in the country for tracking purposes.
They should be FREE and EVERYONE will have one.
Everyone will have their fingerprints taken and their DNA registered upon the card.
10 years in Prison if you refuse to co-operate.
Crime will decrease 90% and those who commit it will be identified within an hour.
If you have nothing to hide, you have no need for concern.
This would include ALL those Pikeys who don't want to be registered anywhere!!
Any non-resident will be deported fothwith if they fail to co-operate.
We would have a far better place to live!
I would also micro-chip every person in the country for tracking purposes.
2 clicks and you own every detail about them!!
Proposed by a naive Muppet's, and followed by naive Muppet's.
Last edited by Jimbob; 15 January 2013 at 06:18 PM.
15 January 2013, 06:21 PM
#46
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I don't think it would be easy to copy your details ...... what do you mean, copy your DNA? Fingerprints? Personal details password protected and encrypted?
ID Cards would be brilliant as would a chip in ones neck ... I genuinely believe this.
ID Cards would be brilliant as would a chip in ones neck ... I genuinely believe this.
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