scoobynutta555

Last time I read the Mail they were against immigration

Maybe the people in your town would be better off becoming economic migrants themselves. Aka 'on yer bike'.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Aye....right....

And live where?

For the sorts of jobs they can get, the going rate to rent would be far too high.

Meanwhile, they HAVE somewhere to live at home....

And what does government do? Not a lot.

r32

Hows he getting on?
Reason you dont know is because he has quietly binned his plan to spend his way out of recession. He has had to resort to traditional methods, like increasing taxation. Those areas of expansion were taking place when he came to power.

It's easy to spout out before you get elected but after the election and you have the job you cant act like an idiot. So I suppose he was elected on false promises.

scoobynutta555

Somewhere where they can get a job. Yes, it's the governments fault, it's my fault, it's the cats fault. See how quick they either get a job here or abroad if they cut benefits. If some "asylum seeker" can make it here from some mud hut in Africa to work Barry from Glasgow who got a free education, free healthcare etc can work.

Most of the immigrants here who have a job have one because someone who's from here can't be bothered to do it, it's beneath them or it doesn't pay more than benefits.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You write as if you have never "been there" and know nothing.
You spout rhetoric apparently taken from a right-wing newspaper.

There is no more to say. Or that NEEDS saying

scoobynutta555

Yes, drop a few insults then throw the cape around the shoulders and flounce off.

Luan Pra bang

Actually the Greek immigration problem is MUCH bigger than ours to the point where tourists who look foreign are regularly stopped and beaten by the Police, and their main neo **** group has been on foreigner stabbing rampages. The Greeks blame immigrants for their problems as well.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Whatever bud.

As I said, you have either never been there, or can't remember what it was like.

To speak of UK scroungers, and so on is simply repeating rhetoric from the government to make it OK to blame the unemployed next, after the public services, for something over which NONE of them had any control.
Meanwhile, their friends, the bankers, continue to do as they please.

You also speak of the unemployed as if you don't know any of them. I do. And not ONE of them is happy with his/her lot.

You chose to ignore my point about where young people would live if they took a job away from home on minimum wage.

So all in all, a waste of time my arguing with you, since you seem insulated from reality on this one.

Let me guess: decent job, decent wage, nice car, secure, live in a nice area, etc etc?

If you want to see it as me chucking insults about and flouncing off, that's up to you...another example of your inability to see what's in front of you.

Personally I have better things to do than try and convince someone who so obviously already knows it all. "A man convinced against his will..." and all that.

Luan Pra bang

The truth as always lies somewhere in the middle, I can remember when the only people who answered adverts for catering jobs were immigrants or people who were English and wanted to get a piece of paper signed so they could still get their dole. English people will rarely work **** hours for low pay but someone still has to serve your food, and wash up your plate etc. Now the situation is different but it is still very difficult to get DECENT English staff to take pride in their work, ON the flip side wages HAVE stagnated, a Warehouse I worked in after University used to pay 17200 for a 4 day week once you proved some basic competence and skill. Add a 5th day and at time and a half you made over 20k. The same place now rotates EE agency workers on a minimum wage and the only people making decent cash are those who started 15 years ago when I was there. For industrial wages to get LOWER or stay the same over 15 years when inflation is at a realistic 4% a year is a tragedy for those that have to work

TelBoy

Utter nonsense, Jeff, with respect.

scoobynutta555

You have more to say then after just saying the opposite?
It seems as well as finding them a job I have to sort their accommodation too? Your mates would be the type to live 20 miles from the nearest water source in an African desert!

Does it not escape you that the removal of benefits would be one almighty incentive to do better at school, to make a better impression, to look the part, to do that training, to get up at 4am, to move to another country, to even move to another part of the country,*to do that job that some bloke from 3 thousand miles away does? I work with many nationalities that managed to, most of whom can't even speak English. Nah, sod that, just moan to all the other losers down the pub at how 'the bankers', 'the govt' are to blame. Meanwhile the guy who spent a fortune getting here on the back of a truck is building a future some born here can't be bothered to do. Easy to blame someone else for your own failures isn't it. When you see multi generations of a family on benefits all their lives, kinda tells a story doesn't it?

To answer your rather patronising question, yes, yes, yes, no yes. Coming out of the end of a bad divorce and looking at being literally homeless. I did well at university despite getting few GCSEs. Even worked 48 hour nights a week while going to college full time in the day. I've always worked since the age of 14, always been in employment. I'm not expert or brains of Britain, if I can do then others can.

Also, both my parents were born outside of England and moved here from rather poorer origins.It seems if I'm an ignorant right winger then you're an ignorant left winger.
Luan pra bang, you're completely missing the point I made.

Anyway, I've learnt never to argue with an idiot. So to borrow a phrase,There is no more to say. Or that NEEDS saying Ciao.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

One of the most level headed responses Ive ever read on SN. Kind of says it all to be fair

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

"Nah man. I'm pretty ****in' far from OK."


The UK. Yesterday.

hodgy0_2

okay, I'll bite

would it be fair to say that the misdemeanours by various UK banks in the run up to the banking crises, during it and since have been shoddily prosecuted by the UK authorities?

indeed if it was not for the aggressiveness of the US prosecutors I doubt the conspiracy, fraud, market rigging, money laundering (for drugs cartel, terrorists) would have ever seen the light of day in the UK.

after all the head of the UK regulatory body, the FSA, has just got a top job at Barclays - gamekeeper turned poacher

indeed the UK response can be seen by promoting Stephen Green the Chairman of HSBC during a period when all of the above were going on to a government minister in the Lords – you could not make it up!!!

and if that’s not laughable enough he is a government minister for “business” – wtf, I mean obviously providing banking services to the world’s major criminal empires is pretty lucrative, but is he the sort of role model the country needs, lecturing business.

Off course the stock excuse is “i was not aware of any wrong doing”

I mean they know so little about the businesses they lead – it’s a wonder they find their way to their office each morning.

But of course they still cash the salary cheques each month!!!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

In response to your patronising post, yes

Don't be silly. If you live near work, it's easy. If you don't, then what? Yes, they could travel, but over a certain distance and their pay is gone. How daft is THAT? They then take a job and ask for bene3fits too? Kind of defeats the object, no? Far better to have someone in the job who needs no benefits on top.

No, it doesn't at all. You are assuming again.
First you assume they didn't do well enough at school. Many have "O" levels but couldn't afford university. What impression? They don't even get interviews because there are no jobs, they are filled with migrants.
What training? You do training, you aren't available for work, no benefits. Do they then starve?
They would all be willing to work permanent nights...no jobs, lads, all taken by migrants, employed at less than nmw.
Move away? To what country? and live where? Now you are in the realms of a fairy story.
Move to another part of the country? where there are jobs? OK...but live where? and then have to ask for benefits ON TOP OF wages to live on? how daft is that? And all the while, maybe taking a job a local who then wouldn't need benefits wants? Even dafter.

yes, he's taking the job of someone born here, who would LIKE that job, but can't have iot because a migrant has it, so meanwhile HE is labelled by you and your like as feckless etc etc. he can't win, can he?

What planet are you ON? Blame someone else? Of course economists, bankers and government are to blame for the mess we are in, not some poor kid who would give his all to work but can't find a job. Get real.
Whole families on benefits and generations? Assumptions again. You must try and get away from your nice soft ordered life and MEET some of these Daily Mail imaginary people. It might be harder than you think
Yes, there are scroungers. Just like there are black drug dealers...but that doesn't make all black people drug dealers. Just like there are Islamic extremists...but not all Muslims are extremists. Stop generalising.

Always worked since you were 14? good for you. Many of the lads I know would kill for a steady job.

Did well at uni? Paid through the nose to go, did you? You know, like the youth of today have to? £3000 pa fees? £3000 pa lodge? 33000 pa living expenses? Except that now it's £9000, £5000 and £4000. PER YEAR!
A student on a 4 year course comes out owing £74000 before even earning a penny. Would you like that?

Left winger I am not. Nor right wing.

But I refuse to see what government and the media expect, and WANT me to see...I go out and look first...and much of what they are telling you is LIES.
just like the inflation rate and the unemployment figures. Lies.

The country ISN'T filled with doleys and scroungers, any more than the public sector and it's pensions was to blame for our misfortunes.

What there IS, outside the affluent SE, is a country filled with increasingly bitter young people who would love to work, but who see migrants doing the jobs THEY would like and can do.
But they are not considered because employers have been told that OUR homegrown young are lazy, and don't want the jobs etc etc etc.
Or because the migrant will work for less than nmw, where a UK young person can't.

Ask Andy on here about Eastern Europeans at the factory he worked at.
Ask my lad about the Poles, supposedly fully trained, who took his job. Literally.

Your posts are filled with generalisations and seem ill-informed.
As I've said, go out and MEET some unemployed away from the affluent SE, ask them if they'd like to work.

THEN come back and preach your Thatcherite views again.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Right?

So they HAVE increased lending from the £billions they have been given/lent by government then?

Or not?

So none of them paid ANY bonuses to themselves the year they nearly went to the wall then?

Or not?

So none of the bosses at fault have been given huge payoffs?

Or not?

Or have been promoted?

Nope, the pretty much appear to be giving two fingers to everyone, government included

Luan Pra bang

What point was that were you referring to ? The point about Greece having MORE immigrants than us ?. Or are you arguing that increasing the the Labour pool for low or unpaid jobs does or does not decrease wages to the point where minimum wage is below the poverty line ?

TelBoy

The original accusation are that bankers are still doing what they want. They patently are not. The punishments for the Libor fixing scandal are being dished out, RBS will have its trousers pulled down next week and rightly so, but to think that bankers are sitting in their cigar-smog filled offices waiting for the dust to settle before carrying on as before, you'd be wrong by more galaxies than i could count in a lifetime. Put the tabloid press down, ask people in the industry (if you don't believe me, that is).

TelBoy

Jeff, how much inter-bank money do you think changes hands these days? Do you think it's a fully functioning market in which trust and reputations have been restored? Or do you think that every bank is as wary of each other as a game of pass the parcel with a grenade as the first prize? Even the Bank of England's latest scheme has failed to change that, even when you would have thought banks would be coining it in using the money-for-old-rope scheme, no?

I have never tried to excuse the behaviour of some bankers which have obviously grabbed the headlines. But i will dismiss till the day i die the calls for all bankers to be hung drawn and quartered, as if we're all on the fiddle, to some extent, in some capacity. Regulation was too lax, no doubt about it. Find me any human in a similar situation who wouldn't try to profit from it. I just won't listen to holier than thou seminars. Those rules have been tightened so you can sleep easy in the knowledge that similar events won't happen again (even though they might well have been to your advantage). The premise that bankers are still doing whatever they want is simply preposterous.

unfeasablylargegonads

iTrader: (3)

One of the things that does not add up to me is that it seems the majority of migrants take the low paid jobs and even if they do pay some tax does it actually cover the cost to the country of having them here (healthcare, tax credits, education if they bring children, etc)? That's without assuming that they are taking some "native" persons possible job and leaving them causing extra cost by claiming benefits, am I missing something?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Well OK, but then WHY is Osborne still bleating that banks aren't lending to small businesses, and why are small businesses still moaning they can't borrow any money?

SURELY that was what the huge sums dished out by Lying Labour were FOR?

Except that they forgot to make that clear to the banks who promptly trousered it and paid themselves their usual bonuses....

unfeasablylargegonads

iTrader: (3)

"and paid themselves their usual bonuses...." but probably not until the top rate of TAX drops to 45% and then they wonder why the general public continues to think the worst

hodgy0_2

Tbf, bankers have got off quite lightly recently

In the last few weeks these pages have seen all manner of people come in for a kicking – fatties, the NHS, smokers, chavs, bad spellers, workshy benefit scroungers, winter tyre refuseniks, panty sniffers, weather forecasters and even lavish wedding spenders (guilty as charged)

Seemed only fair to get a bit of balance