ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Looking at...
http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/e...lation%20chart
Population in the uk has grown at over 10% in the last 30 years.

kevo10

i have to agree with most of the comments made by most of the people as i think they all have legitimate points. we cant put this down to one person or group or government . its all our faults one way or another.this situation has been building up for many years. i certainly think that, bad as it was, the war years were the pinnacle of our societies strength. the nation pulled together and that lasted after the war and after rationing . dont know why it seems to have gone wrong since.

hodgy0_2

but how does that compare to other comparable countries

is it much higher? maybe it is

hodgy0_2

sounds like pinko communism, Kevo

TelBoy

I sometimes ask myself, what % of the population would be happy to fight for the UK if conscription was ever necessary again. You could pick any number of countries as an enemy which would make things very awkward for many "British" residents. Tell me i'm wrong.

Spoon

Base camps wouldn't be so full though. Many families could put the British troops up.

ScoobySteve69

iTrader: (13)

Do some people not have caps lock on their keyboards?

kevo10

not at all. im not talking politics just saying as i see it. we all seem to want someone or something to blame. i think its an amalgamation of aspects in life. we dont stick together as a nation, but then we are not just english or british anymore. we all moan about the cost of fue, but in the last strike how many of us as a nation actually boycotted petrol stations to make our point? we vote the governments into power. and then moan about their policies. enoch powell warned britain about immigration back in the day. did we take notice?.no. and now we are reaping what we allowed to be sown.

kevo10

GUILTY lol

hodgy0_2

a sort of weaponised "Cricket" test

this is quite interesting

I read a book recently on WW2, it consentrated on the actual people fighting it - rather than battles/weapons etc

when it talked about America, it made the point that quite often GI's were sent to fight "the mother country" - i.e. Germany and Italy

and it was a testiment to the nature of American society that the vast vast majority fought willingly for America (their country) against the country of their parent’s birth


and in a sense was the forging of modern America

TelBoy

Could you see the same happening again to protect Britain? I can't, except with the force of punishment for traitors.

Matteeboy

Does it really need explaining? I hate my own bank, I hate all big name retail banks. I'm sure you are quite aware why.

I'm all for capitalism. I'm not for lies, patronisation, corruption, exploitation and IMO criminal activities. Many bankers (clearly not the front line staff in your local branch or call centre people) should be locked up - the fact they aren't is the biggest crime of the century.

hodgy0_2

i understood what you ment Kevo - i was being facetious

and it was off course out of this “pulling together” that the NHS and welfare state were born

TelBoy

My point is, as you are equally quite aware why i'm sure, that not everyone in every bank is the devil incarnate. Banks have one commodity. Money. That's it. That does not excuse collusion or whatever else, but like every industry, some decisions are wrong. Decisions made in the pursuit of profit, like any other business. I think it would do people good to let go of the demonisation of "banks". Sure, hate the individuals who broke the rules if you have to, but try and believe me that the majority of bankers are not immoral charlatans. Obviously i'm biased but believe me you'd get just a bit weary if somebody accused everyone in your industry of being a crook.

kevo10

Thing is, i dont think were going through any different to what Greece ,and other countries are going through. It would be very interesting ,as Telboy said, to see who would desert the sinking ship,so to speak, in the event of war

Matteeboy

I understand where you're coming from and realise it is select few that caused such mayhem but it went right to the highest level and IMO that's who represents those banks. Of course I have nowt against the 1000s of hard working bank staff who had no hand in any of the trouble and do a good job; I'm always quite impressed when I call ours (UK call centre helps) for example.

So yes, a bit of a broad brush but the feeling of anger is so deep towards what has happened, it's easy to be too all encompassing.

I'm looking at sticking some money in overseas banks and/or gold - I honestly think we'll be seeing drastic government action soon and those £50k (I think?) guarantees will be ignored.

kevo10

Maybe just a coincedence , but with advent of the NHSand the welfare state it seems to have gone downhill eversince? . ie,people expecting all and giving nothing back and then working people having grievance cos working all hours and not having a lot to show for it.

Dan W

I am not thinking in terms of the immediate years ahead but over the coming decades. But we have to consider not just the numbers but the consequent impact.

hodgy0_2

the problem with the welfare state is that it has moved from the "safety net" to a lifestyle choice for many

although I would probably take issue with "choice" as I think it is to easy a term to use

but undeniable that the wefare state has experienced "mission creep"

kevo10

Yes. And i very doubt very much it would be that number if we hadnt got a welfare state ,or indeed, the NHS

toneh

iTrader: (1)

We have not got it hard , life's as hard as you make it
It also depends what you want out of life ,

Some folk are happy with a can of Stella and some roll ups
Some folk are happy just to have their health

Over the last couple of years I've met many folk that would gladly swap their current situation for all the creature comforts and security most of us have or desire

Money , taxes ,debt , not getting in college , overpopulation , or whatever are not the most important thing in life ( it may seem like it at the time )

If anyone on here has parents or grandparents In their 60/70s , ask them if they think we've got it hard ! I'll be surprised if the response is " oh yes I really feel for you "

Dan W

True. Very true.
I am wondering if there might be a theoretical number that will reflect the peak of the population of the country though.

Numbers will kepp rising until the country is so messed up nobody wants to come here anymore and then the numbers start to tail off. Then things become sobad people start to flock to other countries, thereby reducing the population here.

Just a thought but should that happen it won't be before a conflict between different groups. A sort of civil war. If not a literal one.

kevo10

Exactly, but if the likes of you and i ,and many more , can see that, surely our government can. Or more likely, choose to ignore

hodgy0_2

not really, no


and interestingly we experienced the opposite to the Americans

In that the population of the Empire (Indians, Pakistan etc etc) thought it a bit rich to be made to fight for "freedom" by the British

Hence why they performed rather poorly and our Empire collapse pretty much as soon as the war ended

hodgy0_2

because it has suited every government (for one reason and another) to keep vast swathes of the population unemployed

Saxo Boy

As I see it, the problem is that the vast majority of the population are pacified to the point of accepting the position they find themselves in. Changes in the affordability of technology and the Government's drive to ensure that even those who refuse to work can access it mean that everyone has a way of escaping.

I expect many people the length and breadth of the Country are dissatisfied with their lives and disillusioned as to where it is all heading. However, whether you are unemployed on benefits or working hard for a living, nearly everybody now has access to a wide choice of food, drink, drugs (if that's your thing), smartphones, 42"+ TV's, xboxes and so on. In short, there is plenty to distract them and keep some degree of control as they tune into mindless TV, surf the net on their phone, tweet sh*te, get hammered at the weekends and shove Nando's down their necks for 30 mins of eating bliss.

Poverty is not what it was; all these things are available to nearly everyone in the Country and we bury our heads in the sand and accept that standard of living. When people worry about the future they just do something to take their mind off it (drink, drugs, xbox, McDonalds) and continue on their way.

Almost nobody takes responsibility for themselves and their personal growth and development. We paper over the cracks of our lives and hope that everything will be fine. This creates a massive problem for Governments, as some hard truths need to be realised by individuals if the situation is to improve. People need to take responsibility for themselves and learn how to grow, develop and plan for their futures. For a Government to enforce that situation on people would require hard hitting policies that would prevent them getting voted in. Accordingly, our willingness to be pacified in the short-term forces Governments to provide only short term relief at the expense of long term sustainability.

So how/when will it all change? Well, as far as I'm concerned we are locked into a cycle of decline that nobody can stop until it crashes. I believe in my life-time it will crash hard and people will get the biggest shock of their lives - many may even die. Hopefully those that survive will be self-responsible, motivated and will learn from these mistakes.

...and the great irony of all this? Well, I can see it happening, can't do much about it and so - like everyone else - I bury my head in the sand and look forward to a meal out with friends this weekend, the prospect of a new car in the next few months and the Dell laptop due to arrive in Feb.

All IMHO.

Saxo Boy

BTW, one of the most effective ways to change this IMHO is a massive reduction in the welfare we hand out. Nature (survival of the fittest) needs to kick in and people need the fear. People need to know that if they do lazy or stupid things they are going to have to suffer unimaginably or possibly die. By all means, support those very genuine cases of people that are less fortunate. Beyond that, allow the free market to dictate what happens (i.e. if you want something you learn/improve/work hard to get it. If you don't, you end up on the street and die of starvation/hypothermia).

Can you imagine a government proposing a 75%+ cut in the benefit state though? Now you see the problem...

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Very true indeed

Matteeboy

The welfare state started in 1909 when the population was a lot smaller and lived much shorter lives.

Basically the government hasn't been able to see a way out of it and it would be a massive vote loser so have stuck with it. The banking crisis has hurt a lot but it's the continuation of the welfare state that's the real crux of the issue.

This isn't a right wing anti lefty dig, it's just the simple truth - the government cannot afford welfare and more importantly state pensions. They've had their head in the sand, borrowing and borrowing for decades.

It has to end soon - our debts make our Euro so called "in trouble" members seem very well off.

TelBoy

Much better