View Poll Results: Who would you vote for tomorrow?
Tory
26
35.14%
Labour
6
8.11%
LibDem
0
0%
UKIP
29
39.19%
Try to get another Coalition
1
1.35%
I will not be voting at all
9
12.16%
Independant Canditate
3
4.05%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll
The General Election Tomorrow ...
01 February 2013, 03:38 PM
#31
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Thats a bit cynical, along the lines of "Don't vote, it only encourages them!" Are they going to be any worse than the current lot? No. Is there a possibility they could be better? Yes. Do their policies actually seem sane to you? Well I know they get my vote...
There is an accepted argument in political circles (say on the Daily Politics show) that the referendum promise is down to UKIP's campaigning, so without any seats they are already influencing and changing UK politics. It is a view I subscribe to as well. So there is more subtle things happening even as Martin keeps wittering on that they have no HoC seats
There is an accepted argument in political circles (say on the Daily Politics show) that the referendum promise is down to UKIP's campaigning, so without any seats they are already influencing and changing UK politics. It is a view I subscribe to as well. So there is more subtle things happening even as Martin keeps wittering on that they have no HoC seats
01 February 2013, 03:40 PM
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01 February 2013, 03:40 PM
#33
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Thats a bit cynical, along the lines of "Don't vote, it only encourages them!" Are they going to be any worse than the current lot? No. Is there a possibility they could be better? Yes. Do their policies actually seem sane to you? Well I know they get my vote...
There is an accepted argument in political circles (say on the Daily Politics show) that the referendum promise is down to UKIP's campaigning, so without any seats they are already influencing and changing UK politics. It is a view I subscribe to as well. So there is more subtle things happening even as Martin keeps wittering on that they have no HoC seats
There is an accepted argument in political circles (say on the Daily Politics show) that the referendum promise is down to UKIP's campaigning, so without any seats they are already influencing and changing UK politics. It is a view I subscribe to as well. So there is more subtle things happening even as Martin keeps wittering on that they have no HoC seats
Join me in calling for reform of our daft electoral system, if you really want UKIP to have some muscle?
Last edited by Martin2005; 01 February 2013 at 03:41 PM.
01 February 2013, 04:13 PM
#34
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A vote from UKIP from me.
Their deputy leader, Paul Nuttall, was on a live talk show on Radio Merseyside and was taking calls from the public and answering their questions. Refreshing to hear someone who gave answers to the questions without the usual non-answers that politicians usually give.
Their deputy leader, Paul Nuttall, was on a live talk show on Radio Merseyside and was taking calls from the public and answering their questions. Refreshing to hear someone who gave answers to the questions without the usual non-answers that politicians usually give.
01 February 2013, 05:04 PM
#35
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Modern politicians are really very disappointing in general. They just seem in general to be untrustworthy when it comes to doing the job that we elect them for. There was a time when an MP was a respected person. These days they seem to think that they are incredibly capable people and the the electorate in general have no significant intelligence.
They think they can sell us down the river and that we are too stupid to see it coming.
The expenses scandal was so revealing, they should all have been sacked so that we could start again!
The word "politician" seems more than ever before to be synonymous with the word "Liar", or "self seeking Git"
Les
They think they can sell us down the river and that we are too stupid to see it coming.
The expenses scandal was so revealing, they should all have been sacked so that we could start again!
The word "politician" seems more than ever before to be synonymous with the word "Liar", or "self seeking Git"
Les
01 February 2013, 05:09 PM
#36
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Yes but do you really believe that a Tory government can be trusted to hold a referendum on the EU membership? Especially after the last time a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was faithfully promised to us. The British Bill Of Rights which was also promised seems to be conveniently forgotten as well of course!
What a Piker!
Les
What a Piker!
Les
01 February 2013, 05:42 PM
#37
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The Tories will NEVER hold a referendum on the EU membership.
That's the reason they say they will in the NEXT Parliment. Not in this one!
Take the renewal of Trident - Labour said it would decide in the 'next' Parliment, it didn't - the Tories say the will decide in the 'next' Parliment ..... because it's a hot potato. We need it and it's cheap, but half wit voters cannot see that.
That's the reason they say they will in the NEXT Parliment. Not in this one!
Take the renewal of Trident - Labour said it would decide in the 'next' Parliment, it didn't - the Tories say the will decide in the 'next' Parliment ..... because it's a hot potato. We need it and it's cheap, but half wit voters cannot see that.
01 February 2013, 05:56 PM
#39
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Yes but do you really believe that a Tory government can be trusted to hold a referendum on the EU membership? Especially after the last time a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was faithfully promised to us. The British Bill Of Rights which was also promised seems to be conveniently forgotten as well of course!
What a Piker!
Les
What a Piker!
Les
01 February 2013, 06:00 PM
#40
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The Tories will NEVER hold a referendum on the EU membership.
That's the reason they say they will in the NEXT Parliment. Not in this one!
Take the renewal of Trident - Labour said it would decide in the 'next' Parliment, it didn't - the Tories say the will decide in the 'next' Parliment ..... because it's a hot potato. We need it and it's cheap, but half wit voters cannot see that.
That's the reason they say they will in the NEXT Parliment. Not in this one!
Take the renewal of Trident - Labour said it would decide in the 'next' Parliment, it didn't - the Tories say the will decide in the 'next' Parliment ..... because it's a hot potato. We need it and it's cheap, but half wit voters cannot see that.
01 February 2013, 06:26 PM
#41
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Yes but do you really believe that a Tory government can be trusted to hold a referendum on the EU membership? Especially after the last time a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was faithfully promised to us. The British Bill Of Rights which was also promised seems to be conveniently forgotten as well of course!
What a Piker!
Les
What a Piker!
Les
01 February 2013, 07:58 PM
#43
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Martin, despite the fact it is biased against UKIP I do not support the changing of FPTP electoral system. I voted no in the AV referendum. To my mind the current system is the least imperfect of them all (acknowledging it has faults), but proportional representation holds greater concerns. The constant need for coalitions means nothing radical will ever get done, and I believe there are plenty of radical things that need doing. As for your other question, perhaps you can answer my one that you ignored before. Why are you so in favour of being in the EU? What do we get for our loss of sovereignty and 55m/day that is so amazing that we have to stay? And a useful test to apply is "how would this really change if we were out"
01 February 2013, 08:27 PM
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[QUOTE]
Is it far better then to ensure that the minority view always hold sway over the majority? We have a system that effectively disenfranchises 90% of the population. Also I find it an act of breathtaking hypocrisy for people who moan about the democratic deficit in the EU, then go on support the status quo here.
Well to start with we've had these exchanges before and pretty sure I've always consistently argued the same line. My objections to the EU are wide and varied, and if it doesn't make significant reforms I will be voting for us to leave in 2017. And this is I think the key difference, my objections are rational not ideological.
As for how would it change if we were out? I don't know, and neither do you. Economically there doesn't appear to be much of an upside though does there?
The one thing I would say though is that it would seem a fairly strange time to disengage just as the rest of the world is engaging. Political collaborations are being form across the globe from South America to South East Asia. We are not immune to globalisation, and this is the context in which we need to take a very long hard look before we jump.
Martin, despite the fact it is biased against UKIP I do not support the changing of FPTP electoral system. I voted no in the AV referendum. To my mind the current system is the least imperfect of them all (acknowledging it has faults), but proportional representation holds greater concerns. The constant need for coalitions means nothing radical will ever get done, and I believe there are plenty of radical things that need doing.
As for your other question, perhaps you can answer my one that you ignored before. Why are you so in favour of being in the EU? What do we get for our loss of sovereignty and 55m/day that is so amazing that we have to stay? And a useful test to apply is "how would this really change if we were out"
As for how would it change if we were out? I don't know, and neither do you. Economically there doesn't appear to be much of an upside though does there?
The one thing I would say though is that it would seem a fairly strange time to disengage just as the rest of the world is engaging. Political collaborations are being form across the globe from South America to South East Asia. We are not immune to globalisation, and this is the context in which we need to take a very long hard look before we jump.
Last edited by Martin2005; 01 February 2013 at 08:29 PM.
01 February 2013, 08:39 PM
#45
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Would vote UKIP but don't want to let that Milliband or any other Labour **** in. Therefore would vote Tory, never voted Labour in my life and never will.
01 February 2013, 10:13 PM
#46
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I thought UKIP would get your vote, considering your feelings on the immigration in Scunthorpe.
02 February 2013, 12:41 AM
#47
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Is it far better then to ensure that the minority view always hold sway over the majority? We have a system that effectively disenfranchises 90% of the population. Also I find it an act of breathtaking hypocrisy for people who moan about the democratic deficit in the EU, then go on support the status quo here.
Well to start with we've had these exchanges before and pretty sure I've always consistently argued the same line. My objections to the EU are wide and varied, and if it doesn't make significant reforms I will be voting for us to leave in 2017. And this is I think the key difference, my objections are rational not ideological.
As for how would it change if we were out? I don't know, and neither do you. Economically there doesn't appear to be much of an upside though does there?
The one thing I would say though is that it would seem a fairly strange time to disengage just as the rest of the world is engaging. Political collaborations are being form across the globe from South America to South East Asia. We are not immune to globalisation, and this is the context in which we need to take a very long hard look before we jump.
As for how would it change if we were out? I don't know, and neither do you. Economically there doesn't appear to be much of an upside though does there?
The one thing I would say though is that it would seem a fairly strange time to disengage just as the rest of the world is engaging. Political collaborations are being form across the globe from South America to South East Asia. We are not immune to globalisation, and this is the context in which we need to take a very long hard look before we jump.
Last edited by warrenm2; 02 February 2013 at 12:43 AM.
02 February 2013, 12:45 AM
#48
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Thats all well and good but you've done exactly the same thing as always and not answered the question, which was "Why are you so in favour of being in the EU? What do we get for our loss of sovereignty and 55m/day that is so amazing that we have to stay?"
These aren't really questions they are the anti-EU spin and talking points! How much sovereignty have we lost, can you quantify it? The £55m a day, where did that number come from, is that genuine, net, gross (you know full well that 'fact' is incredibly misleading)?...If you'd stop spinning and argue the facts rather making ideological points and regurgitating UKIP non-facts I might be able to answer
Last edited by Martin2005; 02 February 2013 at 01:11 AM.
02 February 2013, 04:17 AM
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, and I'll repeat ONCE MORE that I realise FPTP isn't perfectThese aren't really questions they are the anti-EU spin and talking points! How much sovereignty have we lost, can you quantify it? The £55m a day, where did that number come from, is that genuine, net, gross (you know full well that 'fact' is incredibly misleading)?...If you'd stop spinning and argue the facts rather making ideological points and regurgitating UKIP non-facts I might be able to answer
02 February 2013, 08:57 AM
#50
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I have voted UKIP since they were formed - all those doorsteppers telling me it was a wasted vote is finally coming home to roost...
It wasn't a wasted vote, as I was giving support to a party that was never going to win *that* year, but has grown support over the years, as people could see that they were gaining votes, which is finally paying off. I believe with every party there is always a 'tipping point' where they become voteable.
Thats the problem in politics - short sightedness!
It wasn't a wasted vote, as I was giving support to a party that was never going to win *that* year, but has grown support over the years, as people could see that they were gaining votes, which is finally paying off. I believe with every party there is always a 'tipping point' where they become voteable.
Thats the problem in politics - short sightedness!
02 February 2013, 11:28 AM
#51
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I am yet to see a Pro-Europe argument, explaining why we should stay in Europe, with facts to back it.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
02 February 2013, 12:05 PM
#52
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I am yet to see a Pro-Europe argument, explaining why we should stay in Europe, with facts to back it.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
The truth is that this is a very finely balanced argument, and many of the consequences of withdrawal are imponderable
02 February 2013, 12:08 PM
#53
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Rather than ducking the question once again, I am asking what you think the pro argument is as far as you're concerned. We may not agree, however I am trying to engage and understand at least where you're coming from. Sorry if that's too difficult for you to manage.
There is an argument for membership of the EU based upon trade, political and diplomatic influence and collective security But you know this anyway so why are you asking me?
Last edited by Martin2005; 02 February 2013 at 12:10 PM.
02 February 2013, 12:26 PM
#54
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I am yet to see a Pro-Europe argument, explaining why we should stay in Europe, with facts to back it.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
The scaremongering of what will happen if we leave reminds me of the Tory government's scaremiongering over the disaster that would befall us if we left the ERM..... we did becuase we had to due to their economic f**k ups and things got better!
So time for some facts.... why if the UK leaves the EU will it be such a disaster? We keep hearing it so why?
02 February 2013, 12:27 PM
#55
In the end, it won't matter WHAT the electorate says, the politicians will do as they please.
After all, we have had a referendum on being in, or out of the EC, and voted "in".
NOW look where they have got us....
The politicians have moved us far past that point without once consulting us.
And for them to say we elect them to do our wishes is so far from the truth as to be laughable.
After all, we have had a referendum on being in, or out of the EC, and voted "in".
NOW look where they have got us....
The politicians have moved us far past that point without once consulting us.
And for them to say we elect them to do our wishes is so far from the truth as to be laughable.
02 February 2013, 12:36 PM
#56
Modern politicians are really very disappointing in general. They just seem in general to be untrustworthy when it comes to doing the job that we elect them for. There was a time when an MP was a respected person. These days they seem to think that they are incredibly capable people and the the electorate in general have no significant intelligence.
They think they can sell us down the river and that we are too stupid to see it coming.
The expenses scandal was so revealing, they should all have been sacked so that we could start again!
The word "politician" seems more than ever before to be synonymous with the word "Liar", or "self seeking Git"
Les
They think they can sell us down the river and that we are too stupid to see it coming.
The expenses scandal was so revealing, they should all have been sacked so that we could start again!
The word "politician" seems more than ever before to be synonymous with the word "Liar", or "self seeking Git"
Les
02 February 2013, 01:25 PM
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02 February 2013, 03:13 PM
#58
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I am yet to see a Pro-Europe argument, explaining why we should stay in Europe, with facts to back it.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
I've heard plenty of comments such as "We're sleep walking out of Europe" from the pro-Europeans, but nothing which indicates that they are confident of their argument.
Surely, if the Pro-Europeans could confidently argue why we should stay in Europe, the best thing for them to do, is to also back a referendum on the UK's continued membership.
Finish the argument once and for all. In or Out.
it just feels right
