APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

That was my point earlier and in several other threads. The facts and figures above are just that. IN PRACTICE, where l come from, use anything but 0W and 5W and perversely 10/60 is too far the other way.

IN my experience.

Go with facts and figures if you must.

Just keep repeating

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oilman

iTrader: (9)

Engine failure attributed to what exactly?

Lower grade, in terms of quality can indeed cause problems. Quality is often over looked in favour of cost saving. Or are you talking viscosity here?

Please can you point me to these "facts" where 5w viscosity oils are causing engine failure? I have some time this afternoon, it would be nice to read them.

Are all the Imprezas out there running on 5w surviving purely by luck? Including the chap ealier in thread who has ran 5w-40 for 9 years?

Are all tuners and garages who do use and recommend 5w oils for the correct application to be considered wrong?

Power gains come from reducing the viscosity when hot, SAE50 to SAE30 would give you a power gain. 5w-40 to 10w-40 is not going to give any power gain, unless perhaps you are looking to rag it from cold...

Cheers

Guy

oilman

iTrader: (9)

David,

Your last post makes little sense to me, I agree though SAE60 is too far.

I did like this bit.

You've said it yourself, they are facts. From you I mainly see opinion, but please feel free to post the facts about why a 5w oil will damage the average, daily drive Impreza?

Cheers

Guy.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

i run 5/40 from oilman titan something fully synth, and its quieter now than its ever been 166thou on the clock,

t4and greys

Well depending on who's advice you take ,your engines either gonna die ,or be just fine hahahahahahah


And once again we go full circle pmsl

t4and greys

So genuine point or question which I think is valid point about the ,cold viscosity rating

How long do the engine builders and respected members on here think thermal expansion takes place then inside an engine from cold .??????

In layman s terms how long do the engine internals take to fully expand thermally?????? From cold start up :

cster

Here is a thought.
Toyota recommend 5W/30 oil every 10,000 miles for my wife's MR2.
It has an undersquare normally aspirated 1.8l engine that puts out 138 BHP. That works out to be 77 BHP/Litre
Subaru recommend 5W/30 oil every 10,000 miles for my PPP STI.
It has an oversquare turbocharged engine that puts out 320 BHP.
This works out at 128 BHP/Litre. These figures are probably even more skewed in the instance of 2 litre PPP STI engines
I find it amazing that the same oils spec is considered ideal by the manufacturers in both instances.
My gut feeling is that marketing considerations have something to do with this.
Petrol consumption and servicing costs being given undue weight.
Just my thoughts anyway.

stockcar

Subaru's service interval has increased to 10K miles over the years (the EVO's have also doubled certain service mileages like the AYC/ACD) with very little actual spec change................

does it make them more apealing to fleet buyers or cheaper for Joe Bloggs to service, not that i'm cynical or anything...............

alyn

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Alyn, When I was at a trade show a few years back I had a long conversation with an oil tecchie bird from Shell. She said [ and they'll all deny it ]

"That service schedules are extending because in these "green days" there is a problem to dispose of the toxic oil that comes out of the engines. Keep it in the cars longer and the problem lessens."

It makes perfect sense to me, plus of course they'll tell you that the oil is better and lasts longer..... blah, blah, blah.

As for my comments that are prefixed " in my opinion " The facts are as we see them, many cars that are here with busted engines comply with the list of things that make them fail, see above. One of which is " thin oil " Pardon the expression, as l can see the Oilman staff starting to type already....

It matters not to an oil seller whether the oil is 0w 5W or 10W, its mostly all the same price, so why not listen to a very experienced Subaru engine builder who says " don't do it "

I've said my piece on this and many threads I'm gone now, won't be back

Listen or don't your choice.

David

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Is old engine oil not reclaimed/re-processed for use in certain industrial applications? I could list a few possibilities but won't bother in case I'm wrong! Perhaps Tim at Opie could shed some light on this?
Maybe it could be re-processed for use as frying oil for certain brands of burger or the mince in cottage pies to disguise the 'equine' taste?

JohnD

cster

It will still be simpler to store it in your sump for as long as possible.
I believe F1 eingines have to last x number of races these days.
Eight engines per season I think, which must come to about 800 miles per engine max. I wonder if they change the oil?

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Rather more miles than that I think Craig, Don't forget that it is 8 engines total including practice and qualifying days. The cars do race simulation distances on the Thursday/Friday before quali. on Saturdays. It's my understanding that engines do two races and then practice quali. etc.

Of course if you lose one then the pressure is on the remaining ones to cope.

But they change the oil like the drivers change their overalls I expect they get through a serious amount every car every race. The oil is sampled and checked for whatever and that way they monitor the engine health too.

They even have specific air guns for the wheels for different corners of the cars and different days. All data logged and recorded. It really is a science.

I was told a few years back that the strip down team that takes the car to pieces after a race. [ NOT the rebuilders of the suspension or g'box or engine, etc., etc. ] for Honda at Brackley was 46 people. Williams apparently had 33. That is just to take the car to bits and "life" items and then send them off to wherever they go for a rebuild. No wonder it costs so much to run an F1 race team.

David

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

Changing of oil on the Mercedes F1 engines was never done as an oil change, they have an oil tank on the front of the block feeding the oil pump inside it, the oil tank is part of the dry sump system which is totally sealed, unless the engine is taken out of the car / dyno there is no provision for oil changing, only topping up with the engine running via a breather port into the tank, so effectively what is first put into the engine on its initial run on the dyno stays with it, apart from topping up, plus you cannot add any fluids to car under race conditions.
Some of the current V8 Merc's would do near 2500 miles, as a race engine, testing & dyno mule.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

I knew you'd know the modern stuff, I was only repeating what Stirling Moss told me about his Vanwall......................

Surely they change the oil in the Merc engines between races?? Or do you mean that it can never be changed until a full strip?

David

oilman

iTrader: (9)

It goes to a variety of places, some industrial and some automotive. Valvoline are already selling a part recycled oil http://nextgen.valvoline.com/ Other less reputable companies will see you recycled oil as brand new...

Much of the waste oil at our depot goes to local garages, workshops etc with waste oil burners.

Cheers

Guy

oilman

iTrader: (9)

They are correct do a degree, oils are continually getting better, and lasting longer depending on the application it is intended for. The big thing as the moment is to reduce friction.

What do you mean by thin oil? Thin when hot, thin when cold? And what does it do to bust these engines? And how does it not bust the ones that do use it? I dont hold much hope you answering these as you have yet to answer my last question!

You are miles out, and if this is what you believe then your oil knowledge is worse then I thought! And clearly do not listen to what we base our recommendations on. While I am sure you are an experienced engine builder/seller, I am experienced in recommending/selling oils... I just back up what I say with fact.

Cheers

Guy.

oilman

iTrader: (9)

Interesting stuff, I know a few years ago now some of the less well funded teams were running off the shelf 0w-20 race oil.

Cheers

Guy

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

No they only top up, they only lose oil line to cooler & cooler capacity, & most of those connections are quick fit couplings, the only way to get it out the engine is to remove the oil tank & drain it, & remove the scavenge pumps, there's to much of a risk of contaimination getting into the oil system to risk that, plus to remove any part of a live race engine requires agreement from other F1 teams, other than s/plugs, air filter & fuel system.
Not as easy as you thought, plus once there built as a full engine its a nightmare to do anything, thats without all the KER's sh#t that hangs off the front of the engine, incorperated next to the oil tank.

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

I could tell you some very interesting stories about oil in F1 engines, especially ELF oils, but i will save that until i write a book.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

You're such a tease! Come on, give us techie nerds a few clues
Oh, and if you do write a book make sure you use upper case i's when used on their own
I know the operating conditions and requirements are different but we're talking about 5/30 or 5/40 oils being too thin and there's F1 engines running on 0/20!!

JohnD

oilman

iTrader: (9)

I wouldnt mind hearing some of those stories!

Cheers

Guy

cster

There is some interesting stuff there.
I understand that F1 engines are of very tight tolerance and are heated up before starting.
I gather this would pretty much obviate the need for a multigrade type of oil.
I also understand that they tend to idle at over 4000 rpm. This and the 18.000 rpm redline would induce interesting fluid dynamics in the lubrication system.
I think it would be fair to say that their requirements don't really have too much practical comparison to me starting up my STI before proceeding to scrape the ice off the windscreen this morning (So I took the MR2 instead)

stockcar

they also have a service/rebuild life and cost that would shame your mortgage..............

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

API will do it for a couple of grand?

JohnD

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Too right! we'll give it a go, can't be hard, it's just an engine.............

Maybe we can do exchange engines like you get in Exchange & Mart or t'internet
you know the ones that get a coat of silver aerosol and half a set of piston rings and are called reconditioned.........

mshill

iTrader: (4)

so guys is 10w40 millers CFS ok for 2005 sti running 350bhp fast raod use?

i ordered 10w50 but ICP delivered 10w40 by mistake, can't be bothered waited another 2 days on replacement if the 10w40 is just as good

oilman

iTrader: (9)

Perfectly fine, the CFS is a very good oil.

Cheers

Guy

techdw

iTrader: (2)

I spoke to someone at Opie oils a few weeks ago and recommended the Millers 5w40 CFS, I will be running no more than 350bhp - WRX 2003 , 100,000 miles.

Is this oil OK then as after reading this, I am proper confused!

Is 10w40 better to use than 5w40? I see Mshill is using 10w40!

oilman

iTrader: (9)

Is the car a daily driver, normal and spirited road use? If so then you can use either the 10w-40 or 5w-40. The 5w will flow better from cold temps and start up then the 10w. They are both the same when up to running temp.

I would be happy to use the 5w-40.

Cheers

Guy.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

ive used 5w 40 for years in various imprezas without any issues at all.