New tyres on a fwd car, which first?
#31
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I agree, i think i'm much more likely to need my tyres to perform in an emergency braking situation than i am in a wet weather roadholding situation. Maybe they're basing their advice on global statistics but surely better front tyres help you stop sooner? No? What about aquaplaning? Crap front tyres mean you'd lose steering more quickly, no? Can of worms thread ahoy!
#32
I guess it depends on your type of driving and your budget, but the braking distances - esp in the wet - are much longer with tyres closer to the legal limit.
Thats why I always try and rotate my tyres on a regular basis - once every 5000 miles or so. Its an hours faff but it avoids all the hassle of having 1 axle on 3mm and the other on 8mm...
Thats why I always try and rotate my tyres on a regular basis - once every 5000 miles or so. Its an hours faff but it avoids all the hassle of having 1 axle on 3mm and the other on 8mm...
#33
What we all need to remember here is that this car will be driven by my wife, in high heels.
She wouldn't know oversteer from an overgrown steer, and has already put one car upside down in a field due to lift off oversteer, I think, on a flooded road, uphill with water flowing down. Luckily, she walked away from it.....
She wouldn't know oversteer from an overgrown steer, and has already put one car upside down in a field due to lift off oversteer, I think, on a flooded road, uphill with water flowing down. Luckily, she walked away from it.....
#34
b) conditions are terrible and vehicle is being driven deliberately too fast for them
c) dark cars' nose dips as driver clearly keeps lifting to provoke the rear
Clearly a lot of drivers in here that either:
a) have zero confidence/ability, and/or
b) regularly push their cars well beyond their limits.
From what OP (originally) said he has 4 good (wear wise) but poor tires (quality wise). There is nothing wrong with putting these on the rear axle and a better tire up front unless you are planning to drive close to the limits or are the sort of driver (his wife (no offense)) who is perhaps unaware of these limits.
This is a car enthusiasts forum that is predominantly frequented by knowledgeable car enthusiasts. There is no need to blindly follow advice that is designed for the unwashed masses without applying further thought and reasoning. If this was knitting.net and the same question is posed it would almost certainly be wrong to advise anything other than mounting new tires on the rear. Given the further qualification from OP, it is more sensible to put the better tires on the rear.
I do take exception to so called experts using a 1980s video designed for darwin candidates the world over to support their point - a point they have probably given zero thought to and are simply repeating what they read on a poster the last time they were in Kwik Fit.
#35
I would certainly put them on the front wheels. I would expect the rear wheels to be less likely to slide and even if they did it is easier to recover the situation with a rear wheel slide than with the front wheels letting go so that you have lost all steering and the car will continue with a very much reduced change of direction.
Les
Les
#36
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Saxo Boy, I come from a motorsport background, mainly rallying, and personal experience tells me that Michelin are right
Not only is an FWD car more stable with better tyres on the back than the front, it is also significantly faster than vice versa
Obviously it would be faster still with new tyres all round, but one doesn't always have the opportunity/budget to replace all four every time
Not only is an FWD car more stable with better tyres on the back than the front, it is also significantly faster than vice versa
Obviously it would be faster still with new tyres all round, but one doesn't always have the opportunity/budget to replace all four every time
Last edited by CrisPDuk; 14 February 2013 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Because I'm a sausage fingered clown who doesn't proof read properly
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#40
Saxo Boy, I come from a motorsport background, mainly rallying, and personal experience tells me that Michelin are right
Not only is an FWD car more stable with better tyres on the front than the back, it is also significantly faster than vice versa
Obviously it would be faster still with new tyres all round, but one doesn't always have the opportunity/budget to replace all four every time
Not only is an FWD car more stable with better tyres on the front than the back, it is also significantly faster than vice versa
Obviously it would be faster still with new tyres all round, but one doesn't always have the opportunity/budget to replace all four every time
My Leon handles very admirably but I have zero desire/intention to throw it around enough that I need worry about a grip difference between the front and rear axle.
#41
#42
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#43
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Why would you want to go rallying or even close to it on the road. This is not an Impreza, M3, or a modern hot-hatch; it's a diesel runaround.
My Leon handles very admirably but I have zero desire/intention to throw it around enough that I need worry about a grip difference between the front and rear axle.
My Leon handles very admirably but I have zero desire/intention to throw it around enough that I need worry about a grip difference between the front and rear axle.
I was merely pointing out the effect at extremes, those same effects will present themselves at lower speeds in adverse conditions, especially if the vehicle is in inexperienced hands. IMO it's best to do whatever you can to ward against such an eventuality
Like you said, you know what to do in the event of a bit of lift-off, as do I, but I suspect Mrs Alcazar wouldn't, I know MrsD would **** herself
#44
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A little OT... What do people recommend for staggered wheels, such as those on BMWs? If you needed two new tyres, you'd have to replace them back on the same axle as you can't put the wider rears on the front. Replacing all 4 would be best in an ideal world but that gets rather expensive when you have two perfectly good tyres on a given axle
#45
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A little OT... What do people recommend for staggered wheels, such as those on BMWs? If you needed two new tyres, you'd have to replace them back on the same axle as you can't put the wider rears on the front. Replacing all 4 would be best in an ideal world but that gets rather expensive when you have two perfectly good tyres on a given axle
#48
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My other reasons for having the best on the rear on a FWD car are:
Tyres usually stay "good" for around five years before the rubber starts to harden. Different brands degrade at different rates. So putting new on the rear ensures the old ones will be worn away before they go past their best before date. Doesn't work on a RWD car, but if you want perfect tyres and perfect handling all the time, you'd regaularly rotate to keep wear even and replace them in sets of four.
The other issue I have is older cars with 3 channel ABS systems...Classic pre-faclift Impreza is a good case example. If the system thinks a rear wheel is locking, it bricks itself. To the driver it initially feels like they have good braking, then they may feel a slight twitch..the next thing that happens is the ABS kicks in, the pedal starts pulsing and pretty much all braking effort has been removed. Its as scary as hell when that happens, trust me. Thankfully later versions had 4 channel and EBD.
Tyres usually stay "good" for around five years before the rubber starts to harden. Different brands degrade at different rates. So putting new on the rear ensures the old ones will be worn away before they go past their best before date. Doesn't work on a RWD car, but if you want perfect tyres and perfect handling all the time, you'd regaularly rotate to keep wear even and replace them in sets of four.
The other issue I have is older cars with 3 channel ABS systems...Classic pre-faclift Impreza is a good case example. If the system thinks a rear wheel is locking, it bricks itself. To the driver it initially feels like they have good braking, then they may feel a slight twitch..the next thing that happens is the ABS kicks in, the pedal starts pulsing and pretty much all braking effort has been removed. Its as scary as hell when that happens, trust me. Thankfully later versions had 4 channel and EBD.
#50
All this talk of tyres: the car I just replaced (the Volvo) has 4 different no-make brands at each corner that are all technically the wrong size and in varying states of wear and usually running different pressures! Coupled with a car that handles like a shed on wheels it is fair to say that I personally would be happy for anything that matches across an axle, is at the correct pressure and has more than 5mm of tread
#51
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Sorry i know this might appear a stupid question, but aren't Michelin (the sponsors of the video suggesting better tyres should be put on the rear axle) a tyre manufacturer? Am i missing something?
#53
When I was rallying my old 205 we used to joke that the rear wheels were only there to stop the bumper dragging on the floor. I did find that the quickest way to drive it was not to worry too much about the rear and concentrate on where the front wheels were pointed. So long as I kept my foot in, the front would pull the back after it. It seemed to work out okay. On legs with multiple stages we would often swap the less worn rears to the front on the road section between stages (or we'd carry two spares which we'd put on the front).
I don't think this translates to a road car, so if the existing tyres are really bad, I would put the new ones on the rear and start saving. If the existing ones have a fair amount of tread and grip left, then I'd put the new ones on the front.
I don't think this translates to a road car, so if the existing tyres are really bad, I would put the new ones on the rear and start saving. If the existing ones have a fair amount of tread and grip left, then I'd put the new ones on the front.
#54
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Personally if this was my wife's daily driver and she had a history of putting a car on its head I would replace all 4 tyres.
Its just not worth the risk.
Its just not worth the risk.
#55
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When I was rallying my old 205 we used to joke that the rear wheels were only there to stop the bumper dragging on the floor. I did find that the quickest way to drive it was not to worry too much about the rear and concentrate on where the front wheels were pointed. So long as I kept my foot in, the front would pull the back after it. It seemed to work out okay. On legs with multiple stages we would often swap the less worn rears to the front on the road section between stages (or we'd carry two spares which we'd put on the front).
I don't think this translates to a road car, so if the existing tyres are really bad, I would put the new ones on the rear and start saving. If the existing ones have a fair amount of tread and grip left, then I'd put the new ones on the front.
I don't think this translates to a road car, so if the existing tyres are really bad, I would put the new ones on the rear and start saving. If the existing ones have a fair amount of tread and grip left, then I'd put the new ones on the front.
With FWD rally car best tyres on front every time.. Maximum grip for traction and braking.
The rear can be controlled with left foot braking or use of the handbrake.
#56
Last time I got two new tyres for the wifes car from Costco they would only fit the new ones to the rear. It was the fronts that needed replacing. They swapped the part worn rears to the front (including rebalancing them) and fitted the new tyres on the back.
#57
#59
Saxo Boy, I come from a motorsport background, mainly rallying, and personal experience tells me that Michelin are right
Not only is an FWD car more stable with better tyres on the back than the front, it is also significantly faster than vice versa
Obviously it would be faster still with new tyres all round, but one doesn't always have the opportunity/budget to replace all four every time
Not only is an FWD car more stable with better tyres on the back than the front, it is also significantly faster than vice versa
Obviously it would be faster still with new tyres all round, but one doesn't always have the opportunity/budget to replace all four every time
I still think it is easier to avoid trouble with the better tyre performance on the front wheels. With a front wheel slide, you cannot steer the car and just about with whatever you do with the front end you will make the situation worse. It is always unpleasant when the steering will no longer do anything to help control the car. At least with a rear wheel slide you can influence the car's behaviour with the steering wheel and also use the wheel to correct the slide. I presume that in this case the rear tyres are at least legal as far as the tread depth is concerned, in which case unless the driver is a bit of a maniac, the problem is unlikely to arise anyway.
My Scooby was an outstanding handling car when I got the bumpsteer removed and fitted the strong anti roll bar links on the rear so that the understeer virtually disappeared and the car was better balanced with the rear end more likely to slide than the front.
Les
#60
Agree, problem with losing front end is you can easily lose back end trying to sort it out. at least when the back goes you only have one issue to address and aren't on a knife edge as to what you can do. Also at least with oversteer the car is trying to put you into a hedge as opposed to crossing the lane into oncoming (in general)