cster

Do you think that if the government calls their bluff, the country will be brought to it's knees? As far as I can see - it would be the same as a teacher training day (short strike) or a school holiday (long strike). They have these and we still somehow manage to scrape along.
The NUT is not the NUM - they don't have a strangle hold over anything except perhaps an exaggerated view of their own self worth.
Let them strike, then give the f*ckers the sack before the summer holidays begin - we'll see how bolshie they are then.
ps You can sleep easy at night citizen, because I don't vote.

SRSport

Lol, ok. It was them 'not doing anything economical' comment I was mainly referring to. People forget that they are responsible for educating the future workforce for this country. I dont know why people only consider the here and now. This is why we are in this mess. Labour couldnt make decisions with any long term foresight, people borrowed more than they could afford and when the 'future' catches up with them it all falls to pieces.

I personally feel as though teachers should be paid more but at the same time take on greater accountability. Unfortunately they are not supported by a capable or reliable educational framework. OFSTED criteria is focused more on ticking boxes in an attempt to measure effectiveness rather than allowing and trusting schools to teach using appropriate techniques and styles for the pupils they have and assessing them as a whole and within context.

mrtheedge2u2

I personally think education is the golden key. Competition for teachers should be fierce. The best teachers should be paid 6 figure salaries.....but on the other foot, rubbish teachers should be shown the door.

dpb

Can't they strike in their holidays

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I am not going to get into teacher bashing as I think the argument is far from black and white and there is a lot of middle ground that is the reality between both sides of the argument, but can someone answer me one question.

Given that there are 14 weeks a year when the kids are not in school why do they have teacher training days in term time?

Serious question btw, not a dig!

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

If you believe the folks around here, it's because outside of term time they spend 25 hours a day marking homework and planning lessons.

mrtheedge2u2

I would say that it is because, just like me and you, they dont want training in their non-work time.

And tbf to them,.......If I was a teacher I would need about 48 weeks a year off work as I would hate to be stuck with kids all day. But when I did work!!! Woooooo.......they would think I was the messiah!

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

But that's just it, non-term time IS their work time - they aren't off down the shops or enjoying downtime at home, no, they are slaving away over paperwork.

So the original question does still stand - there's no excuse to have training days during term time.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yeah I guess, but I thought even though the kids aren't in school for 14 weeks the teachers didn't have all that time off.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Errrrrr, OK.

So they train for four years to be a teacher, then change to....what? Because if you are trained to be a teacher, you are specialised. What you are suggesting is like someone training to be a dentist, then walks away and becomes a.......???

And do you seriously think it's a decent society that changes the job-description, working practices, pension rights, evaluation practices, working hours etc etc of ANY professional group without consultation? And with no professional input? Simply because of dogma and ideology?

DARB

I blame the parents

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I was only half-serious about the whole changing job thing, but it's not a fair comparison with a dentist. Unless you are a generalist teacher at a school for younger children, surely one trains in a specific subject first to gain the knowledge of their subject (I would hope!) then afterwards trains how to become a teacher of it. i.e. 'those that can, teach' , so surely if they 'can', then they have the 'doing' option, i.e. industry.

Forgetting that last bit, while it might seem unfair, isn't that a real risk of any public sector job? And surely people go into it knowing that? It's true of the police, fire, border agency, customs, etc. The world has changed, we can't expect all our departments to be immune to it.

cster

Here indeed are golden words.
The ones that perhaps have gotten us to where we are now - an education system that is in effect a state run monopoly, with little encouragement for competition from the private sector
So we have teachers who work for an employer (the state) that a) can't go broke and b) is happy to bribe them with pension arrangements that will conveniently be picked up by the next generation.
Well I am guessing that this bird has come home to roost.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Very well put

Leslie

You would think that they of all people might have a sense of public responsibilty!

Les

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Why Les? Why should they be any different to any other workers?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

But one which has been a political football now for 25 YEARS! I've lost count of the number of times the goalposts have been moved. I've also lost count of the number of times decent teachers, working hard, have been told that their hard work isn't anything to do with the high results, but that exams have been dumbed own.
NOW we seem to have a government who INSIST that 75% of children must be above average when they leave school......you do the maths, they seem not to be able to.

Hold on....are you forgetting that teachers have bailed out governments and LEA's before?

In my own LEA which was Humberside, the council workers INCLUDING teachers, were asked to sign up for a system that always pays them on the LAST banking day of the month, rather than the same date every month. The scheme was said to save the Council lots of money in interest.

ONLY teachers agreed, and still have it to this date.

And pensions? Teachers had their own pension pot. A previous government took it and PROMISED to pay the pensions out of taxation.

Is it teachers' faults that government can't afford it?
they COULD give back the pension pot, I suppose......?

cster

Well the lesson there is don't rely on the government - coz if you do, you are a mug. I mean if it sounds too good to be true and all that.
Why don't you opt out and manage your own affairs? Surely that would be fairer all round - it's what people in the real world do.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Why doesn't who opt out? Me? i'm not a teacher.

Teachers? How would they do that then, having had the pension pot nicked?

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11446829

The Government do pay teachers pensions out of taxation, way better than mine....

Shaun

cster

Anybody who works in the public sector can opt out by either
a) opting out of their pension and making their own provision or
b) opting out of the public sector and working in the private sector.
Obviously both of these options show a degree of personal responsibility and self confidence, that is probably lacking in those who chose the comforting sinecure of working in the public sector in the first instance.
What I find irritating is the idea of "professionals" such as teachers who think it is better to go on strike than take either of these two afore-mentioned options.
And these people are shaping the next generation? - do me a favour. Lacking in moral backbone and intestinal fortitude.
"Men amongst boys and boys among men" - to quote an old family friend, mind you he was a five foot nuthin' over achiever.
ps thanks for the history lesson about this "pension pot", but who actually cares?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Well obviously teachers do.

But I'm outta here.

As soon as anyone mentions the men amongst boys or those who can, they automatically brand themselves as having been bullied at school and lose the argument.
Sorry

ScoobyDoo555

cster

Fair enough.......


















LOSER!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You don't have to go as far as SIGNING yourself as LOSER, you know.

Far better if we both keep it quiet for you.

cster

Poor Alcazar - doesn't even know if he's coming or going.......

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Gone..no more arguments from me, just trying to protect YOU.

Still, if you don't MIND being known as a loser......?

Luan Pra bang

A friend I have known since the age of 12 is a teacher, unlike many others he left university and did some other jobs before re-training as a teacher. He has told me frequently that many of the other teaches spend all day doing the minimum and gossiping then complain when they have to take work home. He arrives to school at 8 am and spends his spare time at work working so the latest he is at work is 5pm and he never takes any work home. He is extremely dismissive of the other teachers lack of work ethic and is convinced many would never survive in a real job.

SRSport

Oh right, so your friend who works in a school says that the teachers he works with are like that. I see how you were able to make such a damning and sweeping statement now.

ScoobyDoo555